paulywannafly

Have an opportunity to take in a 69 Motion Corvette as a trade . car has orig paint . white with black stripes . has the sloped back window , L88 airbox hood correct wheels . 427 engine . Saw the car in person today going to need paint but all there and very rust free . I have no idea what this car is worth and would like some idea before I make any type of a deal . Any Ideas ?

The13Bats

Lots of wanna be's out there...It's just another custom until you get the documentation from Motion.
With the docs well, they go over 100K sometimes at auctions,
Other outfits sold the parts too so if it has no motion docs then what ever some one will pay likely not over 10K unless it's a super nice surviver...well a bit more it is a 69 427 car...

paulywannafly

the car has 2 owners with some docs from motion . guess I gotta pay Joels vig for his blessing

The13Bats

I have heard of people paying 1000's to motion only to be told the car wasn't built by motion,

The "motion" cars that fetch the high dollars have all the docs saying they were built by motion,

Being built with parts from motion people dont care too much about because other places sold the parts,

But yeah, if you have a real motion built car with the real docs...cha-ching

Also the 10 or so first motion built cars are the ones that have the real high value, you know the turn keys built to just sell by motion to whoever not the ones that came after, built at motion for someone who hired it built, they have a tall value but not like the first few.

It's all about the docs....

ed427vette

Also remember there are Motion cars and Baldwin-Motion cars.

The Baldwin-Motion cars are the ones that bring in the money if documented. These are invoiced and purchased through Baldwin Chevy and can be backed by LEGIT tank stickers and other GM docs.

Motion converted cars are less desirable as they could have been retrofitted years later but still have a good following and will need Joel's $5k letter.

Good luck and hope its the real deal. Would love to see some pics

ed427vette

The 10 cars you might be referring to are the GT cars. That's another story altogether. But they were not the first cars or even first Corvettes he did. Also Motion did not sell them, Baldwin Chevy sold them and that's what makes them so valuable as these were dealer invoiced supercars with warranty. These were made to order.

The "regular" Phase III Corvettes could have had any parts added on through Motion including the rear window treatment. There are no solid provable production numbers but Joel claims to have made 500 cars and that includes all types and all years, Vegas, Biscayne, Camaro, etc. it's a mystery how many Baldwin invoiced cars or Corvettes were made.

And it is about the legit docs like you said.

paulywannafly

I found one on the internet that looks just like the one in the barn today . I could not take any good pics cause it is buried in crap

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1&d=1419216500

ed427vette

That is a picture from the 1969 Autoshow. It's the first of the Phase III GT cars built but does not have the "prototypical" single headlights or custom taillight treatment as the molds were not ready in time to install for the show. That car was orange and black.

Again, the looks of the car itself means nothing as these parts were all available from the Motion catalog for anyone to put on there cars in there garage.

I think the cars are very interesting. Motion did very nice work. Many variations.

parkerracing

Here's another one (although from reading the ad over and over it doesn't sound like he has any dox).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301440351319?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Alan 71

Hi pr,
I don't know anything about Motion.
But that's an interesting paragraph to read. It's VERY carefully worded.
There is never any overt connection made between THIS car and Motion.
?
Regards,
Alan

Easy Mike

Have the owner pay the fee. It's his/her car. If verification is received from Joel Rosen, then you can talk value with the owner.

parkerracing

Hey Alan,

I thought so too. I find the difference in cubic inches curious. But without a nod from Joel, he's off about a zero, IMO.

gbvette62

So Paul, is this a possible trade for the Grand Sport?

As others have said, you have to be careful. Both Baldwin Chevrolet and Motion sold complete cars, and Motion sold everything separately to build your own Phase III GT. All of the fiberglass parts used by Motion, were made by Custom Fiberglass in Lindenhurst NY, and Custom also advertised and sold all of the Motion fiberglass body parts.

Have you spoken to Mr. Glass? I don't know if Jim knows anything about Motion cars, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

If it's a real Motion car, it could be worthwhile to keep chasing it.

Here are a few articles from old issues of Hi-Performance Cars magazine, as well as an old Motion ad. Cars was based in New York City and often featured Motion's cars. In return, Motion, Baldwin and Custom Fiberglass, all advertised in the magazine. A little off topic, but still interesting is the picture in the middle of the third Cars page. That's Joel Rosen with Zora Arkus Duntov.

The13Bats

ed427 and gbvette summed it up better than me,

But there are just so many situations and variables in which Motion, or baldwin motion or XXXX is worth what and all that and this is one of those times when the documents make it or break it and that is assuming it's the right car to start with,
I do not see the cars built with parts sold by motion being all that valuable, many shops sold the same parts, Ecklers was selling that slant rear likely more than Motion did.

The ad parker posted is what I see a lot of, some arrogant seller wants to tease and salt things that the car IS a holy grail, "1969 Baldwin Motion Corvette", that is how he starts the description but obliviously has no documents for it, and threatens to act like a douche if someone even asks about "motion or Joel" lol
and then the price is about 150K plus too high for what it is, at this point it's a nice unrestored survivor modded 69 coupe, nothing more,
I would guess the seller knows that is isn't really motion built or he would have gladly paid Joel to document that and would be thumping his chest even harder and might even get over 100K to the right collector...

ed427vette

Exactly.
( See? Short and sweet, I promised myself not to get long-winded anymore if not necessary....Happy Holidays Bats)

530planeman

Bats
I paid $2K to Joel Rosen and went to his home in Florida. Unless you have work orders and doc,s to show him he doesn't have anything except to tell you how great he is .Been there done that .
Wes

The13Bats

I didn't have time to write a short reply, so I wrote a long one instead.


I have heard this, sometimes you even get a Motion poster

Mod75

Late to the story here, but being from Chi/Town and just seeing some of cars that where copied on the north/south ends of the city...in the 60/70s

There are Lots of bogus Nickey's/Baldwins/Motion/Greenwood's out there.

Make sure the doc's cover all of the bases, and look really legit, look for past owners info. No body will ever admit to being burned on a rare car, if it sounds to good, or man that's a great deal--step back and say what could go wrong here. Have seen two people that got the stick when it looked really like a legit car.

That's all i got.

Kid Vette

My understanding is all the Baldwin Motion Vettes started out as either L-71s or L-89s. So you might start with checking for documentation/evidence that it originally came with that engine.

gbvette62

I'm not so sure about 1969, but Baldwin-Motion ads in some of those old issues of Hi-Performance Cars, I referred to above, list 1970 Phase III GT's as being available with either a 350 or 454.