CheezMoe

Hey everybody, looking for some opinions and we know I'll find a few here. 73 Coupe currenly has NOM GM targetmaster, at best pushing 275HP gross with headers and Holley 650. So I am looking at a big HP upgrade for a spring project. I have decided to go with a crate motor. At first I was looking at the GMPP 454HO. But after much debate on the total cost of that project decided it was a budget buster. Next thought was a ZZ4. However I have read several critical comments on the ZZ4 as far as lack of any top end performance. I am also looking at two other engines:

Year One 350 400+ HP. ($2999.00)

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=Q

BluePrint Engines 383 405 HP (On Sale at Jegs $2995.00)

http://www.jegs.com/i/Blueprint+Engi...30CT1/10002/-1

Or the ZZ4 ($3999.00 at Jegs)

At this point the BP 383 seems to be the best performance value at the sale price. The Year One item has a roller cam and seems like it might be a little higher revving engine.

I have TH400 and 3:36 gear.

as always I appreciate the input.

iNdigo

Too bad you've already decided on a crate motor. My recommendation would be -- build it yourself and learn something in the process!

But, since you're taking the easy way out, that 383 405HP seems like good bang for the buck.

tbw

63mako

Bluepring Engines 383
Rotating Assembly:

SCAT 3.75'' stroke cast crankshaft
Chevy 5.7'' heavy beam rods with 150,000psi bolts
Keith Black hypereutectic pistons
Hastings Moly rings
Clevite bearings
Externally balanced rotating assembly
Melling high volume oil pump
Heavy duty double roller timing set
Cylinder Heads:

GM Vortec cast iron heads
Hardened retainers and 1.25'' diameter valve springs
2.02'' swirl polished intake valves
1.60'' swirl polished exhaust valves
Hardened pushrods
Camshaft Specs:

Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 234 Intake / 244 Exhaust
Lift: .487'' Intake / .508'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112°

Cast crank, KB Hyper pistons, Stock rods, Flat tappet cam, Iron heads, Externally balanced. Cheap internals. Knock off intake. You will need a different flywheel. You get what you pay for sometimes.

For $700 over the ZZ4 you could buy this 408 500+ ft lbs of torque with a fully forged bottom end, internally balanced with Dart aluminum heads and a roller valvetrain. Edlebrock Air gap intake. If I was going crate motor this would be my choice. Spend a little more now for quality internals with a warrantee. They also actually dyno your motor not 1 motor and send the same dyno sheet out with all similar builds.http://www.tandlengines.com/chevy_sb...408%20A-1.html

column5

Are there any good local engine builders in your area? I enjoyed working with a local shop to design, build and test my new 383. Working with a pro is not a bad idea if you are not a professional engine builder yourself.

Also, go for more power than ~400.

hap1971

I have the Year One crate motor and I have been completely satisfied.
I added roller rockers after a few months, everything else is just the way they shipped it. I dont think you can beat the power per dollar without doing it yourself.

Richard

milo30

I've heard nothing but good things about the yearone engine with the exception of a couple of complaints because they don't use a new block. You'll probably run into intake and water pump issues to make it fit but overall its a great price. I'll be changing my engine out soon and this is the one that I will probably go with also. Good Hp and torque for a low budget engine that will only be occasionally driven sounds like a good combo to me.

I'd love the 454 or something with more HP but then I'd be paying a lot more money to build up the rest of the drive train to take that power and it just doesn't make sense in my situation for how much the car will be driven.

63mako

http://www.tandlengines.com/chevy_sb...408%20A-1.html
Look at the parts list and power output of this. Bottom end torque with the bigger CI engine is worth the $700 alone. Fully Forged bottom end, Roller cam and valvetrain. Great heads and intake. Internally balanced, Quality internals not the cheapest available as the other crate engines have. $700 more than the ZZ4 that has PM rods, cast crank, hyper pistons. $1700 over the other 2 options with similar, low quality internals and iron heads. Any opinions????? I think it should be on your poll.
The way I look at it it is like building a house. One has a wood foundation, one has a cement block foundation. One has a concrete foundation. Which foundation do you want on your house? I spend a little more now on the total project value to guarantee a quality, long lasting foundation.

IcemanZ06

HOLY $H!T! That's perfect!! I've been trying to get a gameplan together for the last couple months and I've been tossing around the crate vs. build, 383 vs 406 vs 454 conversion, etc..... That 408 costs less than the ZZ383 and it's built better (fully forged, larger displacement, aluminum heads vs vortec on the ZZ)

WOW, if I was you I'd be done searching after seeing that one.

Kadorja

Hey I dont wanna hijack your thread or anything but ive been looking at the 383 for a while and that ZZ4 definately caught my eye. Just a quick question.

Does anyone know if the 383 or ZZ4 will fit under a stock 80 hood? All the places ive turned to for crate motors have said they cant fit anything under my hood. If they dont fit I guess I'll just go with the 77-81 Stinger hoods ive seen around online. Please tell me they fit under that hood!

Thanks and yeah I voted 383 but honestly after looking at it the ZZ4 is a safer bet and I like it more now anyways.

happiedazs

Two other things to think about ====

Adding more HP will mean more heat ---- if you have a stock radiator it probably won't be adequate and you'll need to upgrade to an Dewitts radiator with more cooling capacity. Also, at a minimum you will probably need a new/different torque convertor, but you should prpbably think about a new transmissiom to handle that additional power ---- do it now or you will be doing it a few months later. It's been my experience that when you replace an stock engine with a big HP engine there are a lot of other things that need to be changed for the car to run right once you are done ----- Good Luck and keep us posted.

63mako

These ZZ4 350 c.i.d., 4-bolt main, 1-piece rear main seal crate engines have approximately 10.0:1 compression, 355 hp at 5,250 rpm and 405 ft./lbs. of torque at 3,500 rpm. To make this package work GM Performance Parts have installed forged 1053 steel internally balanced crankshafts, 5.7 in. powdered metal connecting rods with hypereutectic flat top pistons with offset pins. Hydraulic billet steel roller camshafts are installed with .474 in. intake lift, .510 in. exhaust lift and duration at .050 in. for intake is 208, and exhaust is 221 and a lobe centerline of 112 degrees. Stamped steel self-aligning rocker arms with a 1.5:1 ratio are used on cast aluminum 1987-91 Corvette L98 cylinder heads. Which have 58cc combustion chambers, 163cc intake runner volume.
You get a 350 with 355 HP and 405 ft lbs of torque with a wood foundation. At least it's got a roller cam............ W/208 intake duration. That and the 163 intake runners is where the top end power goes Im not putting powdered metal anything in my rotating assembly. Don't forget to add in the flywheel/flexplate and short waterpump to the ZZ4. A good bolt on top end kit on your targetmaster will give you the 80 HP boost this crate will give you for 1/2 the money. You asked for opinions. Think you got mine.

U17

I went with the ZZ383 , 750cfm , Hooker headers and sidepipes.. All from Summit ... 425hp... and a 700R4 built up for cruising... Aluminum radiator,electric fans..300#less weight up front,

U17

OH ... it is about 3 inches taller than stock.. I inserted an 4 inch rise scoop..

CheezMoe

Wow! Thanks all for the opinions and votes. As for as the poll goes, it's almost a dead heat. That helps make the decision easy.

I would love to do a full self rebuild but I got a demanding job and teenagers and I just don't have the time if I want to drive the car at all this year.

63Mako, I fully understand all your points. The 408 looks cool but is really more than I need and more than the budget will absorb. I do like your idea of getting 80 HP out of a top end kit. That may actually become the project. I need to do compression and leak down test on the cylinders but there is currently no smoke or leaks from this motor. Looks like either this or Year One at this point.

Thanks again for all the opinions. You gents are on top of things as always.

63mako

Understand the budget concerns. I went pretty far on my build and haven't driven the vette in 3 years.

CheezMoe

Column5, thanks for turning the light on. I tracked down an old motor guru i knew years ago who helped a friend with 283 in a 58 Cris Craft. He still has his machine shop and told me we can turn my targetmaster into a ground shaking 383 that will easily match the 425/440 of the ZZ383. This will be done using Eagle all steel bottom end components. $2500.00 - 3000.00 max was the verbal quote. This includes re-working my stock heads into breathers. This guy has a great rep in the area for auto and marine builds. So I'm going to see him tomorrow to spec it out. Hopefully will get started next week. Now I'm all giddy.

While the motor and trans are out the TH400 is going to the trans shop for make over, new stall converter and shift kit.

thanks again to everyone for your input on this. This forum rocks!

63mako

Best Idea yet!
Hey, while your at it................................
you might as well..........................
Never mind.
That's what got me in trouble.