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Chrome valve covers look great, but if you intend to use them, I think you should find / make one for the center intake cover too.
In doing so, you would remove all the BMW logos, making harder to know what lurks within...
Last edited by 73StreetRace; 04-24-2010 at 03:47 AM.
love it.. but of course I would... sorry, I just found your project, nice to know one of ours has inspired others
I love your motormounts we made ours with thick wall moly tube and polyurethane bushings. There's not a lot of Z car left to it anymore, wheelbase is 4.5" longer, Firewall and everything forward of it is all new, it's RHD, infinity differential, all fabricated from billet alum suspension was a hatch, now fixed roof coupe with trunk, etc
Originally Posted by SteveG75
Jag V-12's are nice but down on power compared to a small block Chevy.
GM did try a Falconer V-12 in a C4. 601 cubic inch, 660-horsepower and 782 ft./lb. of torque.
The BMW V12 can make power, it's just not as cheap to make the power as a SBC. I looked at Falconer engines, but the pricing was obscene. The used one I looked at was $35,000
Originally Posted by gerry72
That's pretty cool for sure. I'd like to hear the exhaust note on the thing.
I know, I need to post more sometime.. will get to it
Originally Posted by Bee Jay
That's a good looking replica. I wonder why they didn't put a Ferrari V12 in it?
Bee Jay
Thanks, I had another car with a SOHC Ferrari V12 that was tired. A decent rebuild was going to cost $30,000 if there were no surprises and the intake and carbs needing rebuild was $8500 and I still would have less power and a heavier engine. Add 8000-10000 for a 5 speed and the BMW looked pretty good. Even if you pay list a 6 speed for the BMW is $6000. The dry sump conversion with 4 stage pump, tank, and all the plumbing added maybe $6000. I didn't use the stock computers as I wanted more ability to tune it so the distributors were eliminated and I went with an electromotive Tec3r, with all the extras was around $4000. Schrick cams, larger injectors, Larger Dellorto throttle bodies and linkage I fabricated eliminated fly by wire, Extrude honed intakes, alum flywheel is $1000, 6 puck clutch I think was $1400, fabricated driveshaft, shifter, vintage air etc etc..
Originally Posted by Richard454
The builder of that car realized a Ferrari V12 was going to be in the $20K range-for just the engine...NOT the whole project!!!
You're right that this CAN be done cheaply.. it really can.. but I have to admit, I have more than $20k in the engine alone.. currently maybe $85k and 2500 hours in the car. I do love vettes, have had 4 in the past but the ferrari replica is 1000 pounds lighter than the C3 vette
When you do the dry sump, it's VERY important that you block off the bypass hole on the side of the block so you can't lose pressure blowing oil right back into the pan. That front sump is so big because of the chain driven pump hanging under the engine. You don't HAVE to modify the pan as much as I did I have seen people simply replace the stamped steel sump with a flat aluminum plate and scavenge from there.
I'm working currently on a new car with a Ferrari 550 engine and transaxle, but I still tinker with the bmw powered one - we're going to put the new headers on it in the next few months should be interesting to see what that does to the heat and sound.
If you run into any snags feel free to send me a note, I built ours and would be happy to help
Best of luck on your toy
Michelle
V16 motor he built using four Yamaha 1,000 cc motorcycle engines mounted on a unique block. Dubbed the Cyclone, this 4.0L mill was good for 550 hp @ 10,000 rpm. While it is undeniably long at just over 36 inches, the aluminum block helps keep its dry weight down at just 334 lbs.
Yes- It’s mostly your fault….and part my old boss- who had a new 750IL back in the day- I use to drive.
I’m going to go w/ a Tremec (Borg Warner ) T45 5speed out of a late 90’s Mustang. The gears will work a lot better than the BMW 6 speed (1st gear would be useless). It has a mechanical speedo output PLUS the shifter is within a ½ of the factory set-up. I’ll run a BMW flywheel & pressureplate w/ a Ford 11” disc.
The oil pan-I had to mod the heck out of mine. The steering linkage, the a-arms AND the front crossmember were ALL in the way. I’m still trying to figure out the dry sump system-I was thinking of using the bypass AS a pick-up. A three stage system- one scavange from the modded pan and the second from an internal P/U from the factory windage tray-very similar to the factory set-up.
Another idea is to drive the dry sump via the flywheel- since the BMW block is set up for a starter on either side-sounded like a great place to put it out of the way. The circle track guys are doing it- so I’m gonna look into it further.
Modded pan w/ FACTORY windage tray-
Enough clearance -Clarence???....
I just bought another V12- w/ the newer valve covers & oil fill. It’ll come in handy having one engine to test fit in the car and another one to mock up.
OR...I could bolt them together and have a V24.....
Last edited by Richard454; 08-22-2017 at 08:42 AM.
This is just MY opinion. Whatever the pros or cons of having 12 pistons versus 8 from any marque, i consider these swaps to be almost sacrilage.
I think Zora Arkus-Duntov will be turning in his grave knowing that people have installed a foreign motor in his much loved Corvettes.
Ok theres a wow factor when you open the hood, but surely these cars should be powered by good old American muscle V8 s.
If you want a bmw, go buy one and leave the Corvettes for the Corvette lovers.
Just MY opinion.......but im sure others will feel the same.
European V12, V10 and V8 are as short as a regular US V8.
In fact the engine in the Porsche Carrera GT have a V10(only 57 centimetres long)and 5.5 litre with 605 bhp and a torque
of 600.0 Nm. Se this link for a picture of the engine:http://www.rsportscars.com/porsche/2.../pictures/3377
European sportcars have many cylinders but the engine blocks are small.
Also the US V8 have a displacement of 7,7 litres while the BMW V12 have a displacement of 5,6 litre with 4 more cylinders
Think of the Ferrari 288 GTO with a V8 with a dispacement of 2,9 litre and 395 bhp and Maximum torque of DIN 496.0 Nm
This is just MY opinion. Whatever the pros or cons of having 12 pistons versus 8 from any marque, i consider these swaps to be almost sacrilage.
I think Zora Arkus-Duntov will be turning in his grave knowing that people have installed a foreign motor in his much loved Corvettes.
Ok theres a wow factor when you open the hood, but surely these cars should be powered by good old American muscle V8 s.
If you want a bmw, go buy one and leave the Corvettes for the Corvette lovers.
Just MY opinion.......but im sure others will feel the same.
“Zora Arkus-Duntov was born in Belgium, raised in Leningrad, and educated in Berlin.”
“He brought his European automotive high-performance experience to bear on the just-introduced Corvette”
Personally- I’d think he’d really dig the swap….
Not to mention nowadays- The GM small block is "Hecho en Mexico" and BMWs are built in South Carolina....
Originally Posted by TheSaint
European V12, V10 and V8 are as short as a regular US V8.
In fact the engine in the Porsche Carrera GT have a V10(only 57 centimetres long)and 5.5 litre with 605 bhp and a torque
of 600.0 Nm. Se this link for a picture of the engine:http://www.rsportscars.com/porsche/2.../pictures/3377
European sportcars have many cylinders but the engine blocks are small.
Also the US V8 have a displacement of 7,7 litres while the BMW V12 have a displacement of 5,6 litre with 4 more cylinders
Think of the Ferrari 288 GTO with a V8 with a dispacement of 2,9 litre and 395 bhp and Maximum torque of DIN 496.0 Nm
The BMW V12 is 29.5 inches...where as the Big Block is 30.5 w/ the short water pump...
Thanks guys for the compliments...Yes it will be unique AND not for everyone- but that's sorta what these old cars are about...
Originally Posted by avner
Very unique & cool project.
I hope I'm not slowing you with my stuff.
Avner
Not at all- still have plenty of room on my basement/garage. Although the doorbell keeps ringing w/ all your deliveries!!!
Richard
Last edited by Richard454; 07-25-2010 at 04:23 PM.
“Zora Arkus-Duntov was born in Belgium, raised in Leningrad, and educated in Berlin.”
“He brought his European automotive high-performance experience to bear on the just-introduced Corvette”
Personally- I’d think he’d really dig the swap….
Not to mention nowadays- The GM small block is "Hecho en Mexico" and BMWs are built in South Carolina....
The BMW V12 is 29.5 inches...where as the Big Block is 30.5 w/ the short water pump...
Thanks guys for the compliments...Yes it will be unique AND not for everyone- but that's sorta what these old cars are about...
Not at all- still have plenty of room on my basement/garage. Although the doorbell keeps ringing w/ all your deliveries!!!
Richard
This is exactly the kind of thing Zora would try. He made the first mid engined Corvette using a Porsche 914 chassis. Do you think he worried about Ferry Porsche spinning in his grave? Purists believe that the car was perfect when it left the factory. My pure stock brand new '79 Vette's performance sucked. I've modified it to my taste and budget. Anyone ever put a Viper V-10 in a C3 Vette? Now that would be interesting. Zora and Caroll Shelby spinning. Well Caroll aint there yet. Caroll sure wasn't afraid to try different engines in cars. Made him famous.
Someone should try a Duromax Turbo Diesel in a Vette. You think a 572 big block has torque?
Bee Jay
But the big question is: Do you gain any power?If so you should have used a CSI engine
Beejay-
I've seen some of your projects and I've got to say- NICE work!!!
The Viper V10 is a bit longer than the Big Block and V12 by almost 7" -but it could be done. A little front crossmember mod and you are there. I gotta say I looked at that swap idea...
Gain horsepower???
A LS-5 back in the day put out 365HP GROSS-Where as the BMW V!2 STOCK was rated at 300HP NET w/ all the accessories on it. The LS5 NET was somewhere in the neighborhood of 270HP.
I'm pulling the power steering & A/C and probably run a smaller alternator. In just pulling the acc- It should gain about 30-50HP ( from reading about another V12 in a Kit car)
The CSI motor rated at 385HP Net comes w/
a bigger bore
higher lift cam
more compression
bigger exhaust
and an oil cooler
I'll be dry sumping mine ( w/ an oil cooler)- raising the compression-probably bigger bores w/ new liners-having the cams reground and obviously a bigger exhaust w/o cats plus a general cleanup on the heads and a couple of wokke chips. So- I should be in the ballpark of the CSI's output-However, the Vette will weigh in 1000-1200lbs LESS.
STOCK the CSI could turn sub second runs to 60MPH which is pretty impressive since it's carring 4300+lbs and geared to top out at over 180MPH...
Very nice BMW V12 Corvette project...... The BMW V12s are underrated engines for sure.
For those who think that 300bhp is too little, you could allways turboed it.
There is a guy in Norway who have experimented with turbos on these BMW V12s, both CSI and normal V12. Twin turbo on stock BMW V12 (with upgraded injectors etc), and single turbo on built V12.
I've finally figured out the rest of the driveline.
After getting a great deal on a Richmond 6 speed- I started moving forward w/ the building of the bellhousing and figuring out the clutch.
Using this transmission- I'll have the stock speedo cable and stock driveshaft- and the shifter will be in the stock location.
The 11" Chevy clutch pressureplate was just too big for the 13" BMW flywheel. I moved down to a 10.4 which fitted fine.
The dowel pins even fit the pressureplate. Just need to drill and tap the BMW Flywheel for the Chevy pressureplate
The input shaft from the Richmond is really close to fitting the stock BMW pilot bearing- will just polish a bit for a good fit.
Here's the BMW auto belhousing bolted down and centered on the mill.
Have to take almost and inch and a ½ off of it
We then took some ½ aluminum and copyed the 403 GM bellhousing bolt pattern I had laying around. Notched the bellhousing- centered up the plate and bored out the center for a snug fit tp the Richmond.
It's just tack welded in this pic for test fit.
And yes- I will clean up the plate to make it look good w/ the rest of the bellhousing....
After bolting up the flywheel to the V12- it looks like there is only a small difference between a GM flywheel surface to block surface (bellhousing) as compared to the BMW- 1.400" for the GM and 1.420" BMW. And after researching pressureplate and disc heights- they vary more than that-so I think I'm in good shape.
Richard
Last edited by Richard454; 08-22-2017 at 08:50 AM.
04-24-2010, 03:37 AM
