drspencer

From what I can gather from reading these threads, it seems as if most all C3's have some degree of windshield/birdcage rust.

While certain cases obviously require immediate attention just to make the car safe & functional, I can't help but think that this condition produces a 'Chicken Little' effect in people.

If a car has windshield/birdcage rust, but is structurally sound, do Folks find it difficult to just drive & enjoy the car?

Thanks

luisv

OK.... the problem is what you don't see.

While from an exterior inspection the cage may look sound, there are places you simply cannot see from outside. Now, I am not saying you HAVE to do a body off fix... However, I would do more than a simple "look see" through the windshield.

Look into the A Pillar mounts, look into the rear wheel well mounting points, get the car on a lift and take a look at the rocker channels... If you need to repair anything... do it... remember the birdcage is, ultimately, where the entire body rests. It is the structural portion of the body.

If you'd like to see an example of "what lies beneath"... check out my resotration thread here. It will show you what my cage was like with everything completely removed. Pretty crazy...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...storation.html

drspencer

No, I get it. Just because a car has nice, shiny paint, doesn't mean that it's not a rusty mess in areas you can't see.

What I'm wondering is, what about the people whose cars have windshield/birdcage rust, but are mechanically sound? It seems that a lot of C3's would fall into this category.

birdsmith

While I had my windshield out for replacement a few years ago some birdcage rust was revealed on the left A pillar. It wasn't perforated so I ground most of the rust away and treated it with some rust killer and touched it up with some red oxide primer. IMO if the car is a driver and the structure isn't noticeably compromised just clean it up and run it. If you are doing a massive teardown like LuisV is then it makes perfect sense to fix everything you can possibly fix...

AllC34Me

I think after going through what I did on my 71 I can safely say that 1) you cannot see the full extent of the damage once rust begins to infiltrate the bird cage; and 2) any rust through in the bird cage compromises the safety to the driver and passenger in an accident. My bird cage was badly eaten and it needed much repair so I am probably just over protective when it comes to repairing the rust. For me, the peace of mind I have knowing the car has structural integrity again far outweighs the cost I paid to have it repaired.
Just my humble opinion.
David

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...rn-find-4.html

If you would like to see the repair that was required then you can find that starting on page 12 of the same post continuing through page 13 I believe. Anyway, lots of work to get it corrected and secured.

dembo

Wouldn't the car be NOT structural sound if the birdcage has severe rust? In my opinion it's a safety issue in case of a roll over.
Nick

dar322

unfortunately its terminal doc. how should it be treated? attack it or ignore it? attacking it may prolong its life. ignoring it may hasten its death.

Easy Mike

You can bet there are owners driving and enjoying C3s at this moment who are unaware of possible birdcage prolbems with their cars. For a while longer, they will not experience any problems with their cars. At some future date, the fun could end.

I agree there could be a bit of Chicken Little in all of this. That said, you have to guard against whistling in the dark or crying Wolf.

Red 69

You can continue to drive the car, but the rust will progress. In order to arrest the rust, you will need to remove the windshield and all trim. Clean the rust down to raw metal. It is a good idea to run brushes up the A-pillar from down in the kick panel. Fill rust holes with what you can. Chances are, whatever welder you have will just make the holes bigger, so JB Weld may be your only option. Etch the metal and apply a good epoxy primer before painting. Once you get inside the A-pillar clean, you can attach a cloth mop to a length of wire and use it to coat the inside of the A-pillar with the epoxy primer, or POR. Do not use POR on the exterior. Then you want to remove the source of the problem, a leaky t-top seal. If you don't want to do the work, keep it garaged and drive on sunny days only, or hire someone to do the job.

Alan 71

Hi dr s,
I think you need to be able to do enough of a check to KNOW what the rust situation REALLY is. Then you can decide if you can leave it the way it is, address it at some future date, or fix it now.
When the doors won't latch anymore you'll know you've waited too long before checking.
I guess the fourth option is to hide it and sell the car... I remember that happening to a couple of members who were on the buying side of a car like that.
Regards,
Alan

longbros

I am sure a lot of C3 owners are driving around with rust issues and they don't even know it. Unless you are doing a total restoration, having major water leakage from rotted out areas, or some other obvious issue caused by signifcant rust, you may not know about it. So, just drive and enjoy!

If you are going to lay down some serious money for a C3, then certainly you should investigate all the possible rust problem areas.

My C3 has lasted 41 years, and is no longer being driven in the rain or snow, etc. On the surface, it does not appear to have any serious rust issues. It has lasted 41 years, if it lasts another 20 years, that will be great, I will be dead by then!

drspencer

Agreed. I can see some minor windshield rust when I pull the stainless trim back on my '71 convert and have a peek, but I haven't had the time to investigate what's behind the kick panels, etc.

It would be a shame if I found any serious cancer. My car is a great, original, matching #'s ride, but would anyone actually consider a full birdcage replacement on a base model car, if that's what was needed?

Thanks

AllC34Me

A lot would depend upon that decision, ask me how I know. Mine was a car headed for parting, now it will be a memory I can enjoy and pass on to my son. Mine is a numbers matching, 49K mile 350/270 with automatic transmission, pretty much vanilla other than the green on green combination. I think I would be safe in saying that those few that would take that level of restoration "on" would have to have a reason to do so, not just do it for something to do. Some have owned the car for a long time; some have found a long lost car they owned earlier in their lives; one gentleman found his dads old car and then restored it. Whatever the reason and whatever the connection I hope your car lasts a long time and that you continue to enjoy it safely.
Best regards,
David

Korevette

Rust and the Bird Cage.

I too have looked into this topic. Rust will be a hidden killer of anything exisiting or restored. Unless removed it will exist, (or will it ?) . What is acceptable and what is beyond hope will always be open to conversation.

I have repaired many steel bodied vehicles and will state I would not stand behind any one of them and claim it will never rust again. It is like polishing silverware, once done you are satisfied of a job well done but the tarnish will come back over time.

Do your research. Steel ships and submarines rust. What will last over time? Rust will penetrate, it will rust through. It all depends on the thickness of the steel before rust through. Keep all areas of structural support in the fore front. Rust removal, rust conversion and rust inhibitor are three different things. See what will satisfy your current situation.

Dano,

efather

I was struggling with what to do and not to do with the rust on my cage. I really thought long and hard and could not "just live" with it because once I saw it, i would know it was there.

I killed the rust around the side and top of the frame, which was not major at all, just looked nasty at 1st.

Now when I came across the holes at the bottom corner, that freaked me out. After I took the clip off I could really look into it. once I cleaned it, the rust that was below the hole, was deep and it got lighter as it moved down the surface toward the firewall. When I looked through the holeand even run my finger over the inside, the inside frame was just a dusting that I could wipe off. There is no rust on the inside of the car at all or areound the body mounts. So it appears that it was just localized (there was no tell tell rust stains either)

I still plan on trying to treat the inside of the frame without taking it apart. I will end up patching the holes with appropriate weldable steel, then nice epoxy primer.

I think all cases are different, but in my case, since I already had the body off, it was not much more of a leap to just take off the clip and fix it. Had I not been doing a body off, I am not sure what I would have done.

I am not naive enough to think it wont come back ever, but I will do my best to slow it so the wife then the son will be able to drive it for a long time.

Spacecoast

I think all of us wrestle with this at some point. Unfortunately I had no choice to remove my windshield as it has two small cracks in it. I could see some surface rust when looking through the windshield, but it was mostly very light. Upon removal, we found 3 or 4 small rust holes after grinding the frame down. Luckily they could be fixed and the frame protected. Is there a bit more rust below?? I am sure, but for the purposes of a driver like mine, I can live with it. Like someone said.. EVERYTHING metal will rust sooner or later. I think by the time it would become an issue, I will no longer have the car. But I do have piece of mind that the frame is in good shape now and structuraly sound.

1974ta

Even a Texas car like my 70 vert. had a little rust around the windshield frame.

I expected the worst when I pulled the windshield. Thankfully is was pretty minor. All the rust was localized and the majority was caused by an improper windshield install. My opinion is to pull the windshield and dig out the sealant at the base of the windshield frame. As long as there is little to no rust at the base of the ws frame you are probably ok. If you have a few pinholes in the windshield frame POR15 putty will work great and has excellent tensile strength when cured. Then follow the instructions exactly and use POR15 to treat the entire frame. That frame is pretty tough and as long as 80% or so is still good I would just repair and treat it with POR15. The nice thing about filling any holes is now the carpet stays dry when you wash your baby

Also pull the kick panels and look in there. If there is significant rust in there you may have bigger rust issues.

Serious rust is a real safety issues as other have said.

Hope for the best and expect the worst.

Bill

Tim H

I have no idea if theres rust in mine or not and don't care.
If it is rusty there is no where around here to get a bird cage so its no use to check and stop driving the car because of it.
Not ever going to check.