Factor

Hi guys,

trying to get through my last thread...

have a 69 vert that was converted to HEI...they ran a wire from the starter to the (+) coil side to the pink wire on the cabin side of the firewall...according to AIM it goes to the ignition switch/which apparently was the YELLOW in the AIM

I have another wire RED going from the starter up...whihc looks stock...

I am installing a powermaster 9612...since i am still working on electrical here...according to their install and website only the S terminal is needed....and R is not.

Ideas on which wire would in theory be the S?

Also, what does the R side of the starter power?

thanks,
Ron

TOM B1

The R terminal was used on original RESISTER type ignitions.
The wire ran to the Ballast resister. This terminal is only hot when cranking. You now have HEI and don't need it.

The wire that goes to the S terminal is hot only when the key is in the START position.
Tools Needed:
Test light.

Factor

AWESOEM INFO!

thanks!

On mine. yellow is to the coil and to firewall up. Mine is red that goes to pink.
According to AIM, the other terminal is 12purple.

From ur reply...i am thinking this is the R terminal NOT needed ?

Thanks very much!

Factor

Also to confirm.

S terminal. It is hot is START position. Not CRANK position?...

Thanks!

Peterbuilt

Yes, purple (S terminal) is HOT only in START, and not in RUN.
You will not need the yellow (R terminal).

HEI should have a separate wire from the ING terminal in the fuse box to the distributor.

Factor

Great pic!

ok...my 69 was converted to 76 tach HEI before I bought it. so I am deciphering someone else's work.

my current setup was....from (1) starter to (2) + coil side connect to (3) pink 12 gauge wire past firewall (inside)...all connected
<also at coil had a small wire jump off to windshield wiper motor- no clue on this one>

purple was factory.

I am installing a MSD ready to run distributor and coil. it has its own hookups from dist to coil. AND a tach wire coming off the dist that I may be able to use...if not then it will be negative side of coil.

dont i need a positive coming up from starter to meet at the coil?

what connects to distributor/coil from dash to run engine/start engine?

anyone know purpose of 12 gauge under dash PINK?

THANKS! yes...I got a basket case here...

DUB

Gotta see what you are describing. PHOTO's needed

Starter wire to crank the engine. DO you have a wiring diagram?????And a volt.ohmmeter????

LOOK AT the wiring diagram from MSD....it will tell you what you need to connect to the coil.

LOOK AT the wiring diagram from MSD....it will tell you what you need to connect to the coil.

The 12 gauge wire that they ran to the HEI power terminal in the cap was to power it up....BECAUSE the wire for the factory set-up is a resistance single filament wire that should not be used....and they ran the wire to make it easier than separating the junction block in the firewall side of the fuse panel and installing a wire form the removed single filament wire.

AND if you look at your factory wiring diagram.....the fuse panel actually has a 12 gauge pink wire coming from the inside of the car(ignition switch)...and at the bulkhead connector.... that wire to the factory coil changed to the single filament resistance wire.

Honestly trying to help...and in what you are asking you have to be very descriptive on what you have and need to know...because there are NUMEROUS MSD systems...so it is hard to tell you what to do without knowing or seeing what you have.

DUB

Factor

OK! Thanks DUB!

Here it is!

First pic is the mess I had.

Second pic is the MSD "ready to run" instructions for BBC

Third pic is what I am thinking....

FROM STOCK wiring...YEllow is gone. Purple is there. All other starter attachments are there.
*Using a Powermaster 9612...No "R" terminal needed...only 'S"

->of course, i do not remember which nasty wiring went there when pulled engine...and can't find my notes. DAM!

SOOO.

Thinking PURPLE goes to "S" Starter terminal. run the RED from firewall pink to + coil. ...advice...please!

Thanks,
Ron

DUB

The PURPLE wire is the wire that will get 12 volts when you go to CRANK the engine...so it should go to the correct terminal on the STARTER....which I can not tell you with COMPLETE CONFIDENCE...BUT....The 'S' seems correct.

DO NOT connect the RED 'B' wire to the starter as you have drawn out. What that will do is make it so your COIL will have battery power on it ALL THE TIME....THUS....making
your ignition switch useless.

The RED wire coming from teh firewall bulkhead...with the '?' by it...needs to be a 12 gauge wire. Color is irrelevant..but...keeping in mind that using pink wire is BEST....adn this is in GM's way of color coding wires....a RED wrie is CONSTANT BATTERY power....a ORANGE wire is CONSTANT BATTERY voltage that is FUSED....and a PINK wire is a 12 volt source that is 'switched on and off' and is FUSED. AND this wire (PINK one on the inside of the car)...oddly enough...comes from the ignition switch is is protected by the RED wire that has a fusible link in it coming from the battery terminal at the STARTER or the horn relay...GOING TO the ignition switch.....depending on year model.

IF your starter ONLY has 2 terminals on it...One of them is large for your positive battery cable...and the other is smaller for the PURPLE WIRE.

NOW....you should have a red wire down by the starter with a fusible link in it that would attach to the LARGE TERMINAL where your battery cable attaches.

The W12 wire you wrote should be actually a resistance wire that is a single filament wire.

I will look at my wiring diagram tomorrow and confirm...but it really does not matter due to a new system in the car.

Also..I am sure that if you call MSD...they do not want you to use the factory wire...especially if it is a resistance wire with the woven fabric covering it.

DUB

Factor

ok!!!

the w12 wire is only connecting at the junction block all those wires that previous owner "jerry-ed" up...

I am understanding this now!

SO
PowerMaster starter only has the BIG terminal and little S terminal. NO R terminal (do have adapter for it out there if necessary)

THUS, all wires that attach to the BIG terminal ARE there and stock...just cleaned them. THere are 2 other wires that stock would be there (according to AIM) Purple and Yellow. THe Yellow is gone and was replaced with those WHITE wires. THE Purple is still there.

THUS, connect the BIG terminal wires as above...done.
connect the purple to S terminal...done.

thinking of PINK to positive coil...should i put a fuse in here?

HOw can i check if crank works at starter...can i pull it off starter, and put volt/test light on it, and see if lights?

thanks very much!

Ron

Factor

and testing the PINK...should be power with key ON only...or ON and CRANK?

DUB

DO NOT put a fuse in the PINK 12 gauge wire. Not needed. Factory did not do it and there is NO FUSE the the MSD drawing.

I need to see a photo of this white 12 wire and this junction block.

DO not worry about the yellow wire at all.

THE PINK WIRE will be HOT when the key is on and when you crank it...it is the EXACT SAME as it was from the factory.....the only difference is you are using a larger gauge wire....BECAUSE...YOU ARE going into the bulkhead connector and REMOVING the one wire and replacing it with the PINK WIRE.....CORRECT?????????

Leave the starter on....Leave the PURPLE WIRE DISCONNECTED and connect a VOLTMETER TO IT and have someone turn the key and see if you get 12 volts or battery voltage to it. Use jumper wires if needed.if you are by yourself.

DUB

70ZZ3 96LT4

When I installed my ZZ crate engine with the HEI distributor in my 1970 Corvette I installed a terminal on a wire and connected it to my 1970's fuse block inside the car where it says IGN. Ran the wire through the dash and put another terminal on the wire and connected it to the HEI wire.

No problems since the early 90's when I did this, starts great and runs great.

DUB

Glad all is well.

BUT..if my memory serves me correctly...and I think I am correct on this...that IGN terminal in the fuse box is protected by the fuse beside it...so if the fuse blows...your car will die.....and current to the HEI is also being limited by the fuse.

I know it works and you did the work so you know what you did. But that would not be a procedure I would do to a customers car. Having to stop and pull a fuse to try to get the car running again and then I get a phone call.

DUB

Factor

70ZZ...yes, that makes sense as it is a 12V ignition on accessory type wire. Makes sense. I dont think it is fused tho...I think it is direct connect male/female. Anyway,
I kind of have a generic-made HEI...so trying to figure out which wire works with what...

DUB...will try this testing later...
NO...the pink wire was cut before the interior bulk panel, spliced to the WHITE wire, then snaked out to the junction block...I think I have a pic of it...but did throw the block out...will check...

Thanks,
Ron

Factor

got stuck at working late...shooting for saturday.

will let you know!

thanks!
R

Factor

OK!!!

looks like I have come to a conclusion...see pic.

Got 12V power to coil and alternator. and to starter at purple ONLY on crank.

Please let me know if this works? in theory I think it should .

Factor

ALSO...where is a good place to ground the dist/coil setup?

Where would you suggest pulling 12V for the electric choke?
apparently MSD says not at the + coil...

thanks,
Ron

DUB

FROM YOUR DRAWING.

PURPLE WIRE to starter----CORRECT
RED 12 to starter.....QUESTIONABLE. I AM BEING VERY TECHNICAL.... This wire does not go to the battery...it is the wire that gets POWER from the BATTERY CABLE...and this wire should have a fusible link in it....BECAUSE this wire (RED12) is what it supplying power to your fuse panel and alternator.

PINK 12 changing to RED 12 going to (+) side of the coil. This is CORRECT as long as the place where the PINK 12 gets its POWER IS NOT from a plug in port on the front of the fuse panel. IF you do this...then this wire is NOW being protected by a fuse....which in most scenarios...is good....but not in this scenario.. This PINK 12 wire is in the factory connector that is on the interior side of the fuse panel....and it comes DIRECTLY form the ignition switch....and it is PROTECTED by the FUSIBLE LINK that SHOULD BE in the RED 12 wire down at the starter. Fusible links are better than fuses in a current load situation like this. REASONS are OBVIOUS.

WHY are you wanting to ground the coil????? MSD's diagram DOES NOT SHOW the coil being grounded. The BLACK wire in their diagram is being grounded for the system to function....but NOT the coil itself. IF this is what you are referring to...ground the black wire on any good metal location close by.

AS for the choke wire. When GM began using an electric choke...they had a port in the fuse panel for it. SO...BECAUSE I ASSUME NOTHING...I would call the company that made and installed the electric choke on the crab you have and as their TECH DEPT on how many amps does the choke draw...and see what they say....so you will know what size gauge wire to use and how to protect this circuit with a fuse. As for where to get power that is a SWITCHED SOURCE so when you have the KEY turned ON it will supply power to the choke is up to you.

SO...depending on the AMP draw for the choke....and the IGN port in the front of the fuse panel...You would have to see what FUSE is supplying power to the IGN port...My memory can not remember it and I do not have a wiring diagram beside me. And depending on what circuit is supplying the power....I would use it...and if it is questionable due to AMP draw...the I would have to wire it in coming off the ignition switch.

DUB

Factor

DUB...AWESOME INFO! you got it together!!!

Gonna call Quickfuel about choke.

PINK12 to RED 12...no -bypasses fuse panel and comes directly out firewall.

please explain fusible link??
(is it the stock little black things in line on the wires...got 2 on the RED12 on BIG terminal) Yes it goes to the firewall.

so being fiberglass body...what would you recommend as a good ground??

PIC below and 12V/key position.
I think that should suffice for running/starting the engine...

Please let me know! Thanks!!!