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"Bendology and filing"... what exactly would I bend/file? I thought about drilling out the stud holes on the plates a tad bit so they would move a little more, but it sounds like hardened steel is pretty tough to drill.
That picture's actually a bit deceiving. At its most extreme, the roller only gets about 2/3 of the way across the valve stem. I'll post a picture of the side view in a bit.
Yeah, it does look odd how high they stick up (especially in that picture) but they're on far enough that I'm confident that won't be an issue. I'll check later, but I think they're on more than 1/2".
Here's a side view of the valve stem. It's all gunked up with lube, so you can't see very well, but you get the idea.
Anyway, I messed around with the guide plates so far and got nearly all of the rockers centered fairly well on the valve stem. Here are pictures at each extreme of the one that's most off.
Pic #2 no. If the guide plate is the only cause of the misalignment then u can remove metal from 1 side of the plate slot but u wont be able to close up the opposite side. Unless u get creative and elongate the stud holes into slots. Also u can swap the plates around and possibly get a better match on another cyl.
But u mentioned the rockers are very loose and that can happen on cyls that have the vlvs closed but on the vlvs that are open there shouldnt be much loose on the rockers though u can probably move it if u force it.
Most problems ive had with guide plates is they were too tight. So my trick was to use an old p-rod and bend/wiggle side to side in the slot to open it some - im trying to say this aint rocket science. U just need a close fit w/o drag on the p-rod.
If u get this sorted out u will still need to keep an eye on those rockers/plates and inspect them soon after start-up then frequently for the first few thou miles of use. Dont know what else to say other then its good your not ignoring this or in denial somethings wrong.
I'll see if another plate will work. I'd rather not have to modify one of those hardened steel plates.
They are only loose when the lifter is on the base circle. If the valve is open at all the rocker won't wiggle back and forth. Do you think if I center the roller on the valve stem it will stay centered because of this?
Mine are exactly the opposite. There's probably .05" of play between the pushrod and the guide plate.
I'll be sure to keep a close eye on everything for a while after I get it in my car.
0.050" slot slop reads like they are made for 3/8" p-rods. Im thinking u need to correct the plate fit and get all your rocker tips were they belong. And rotate the engine enough utill your convinced its correct. Hey used guide plates will work as good as new as long as they fit correctly. Give your local machine shop(s) a call and maybe u have something to trade with if u dont have cash - but used guide plates should be pocket change as their less than $50 new.
I misremembered that number. They measure about .340" across the slot, which is just about .03" bigger than 5/16 but still smaller than a 3/8" rod. I've looked high and low to find a number, but I just can't: what's the maximum acceptable clearance between the pushrods and the guide plates? Because if the clearance isn't an issue, just the alignment, then I can just buy a few replacement guide plates to fix the alignment.
Hmm, I'll check into getting used plates. The issue is they'd have to be used adjustable plates to correct the alignment issue, which I suspect may be hard if not impossible to find.
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; 03-29-2015 at 11:10 PM.
I found those same plates on Summit, but thanks for the link.
What are your thoughts on the alignment issues? Is it okay for the rocker to be able to wiggle side to side that much, and do they have to be exactly centered on the valve tip? All of the rockers can be centered on the valve stem tip, but the pushrods aren't in the middle of the guide plate slots when I do so, and I'm unsure if they will stay that way or if the rockers will wiggle back and forth when the engine is running.
Center the rocker roller side to side as best you can. There will be slight fore/aft movement without issue its the nature of that design rocker. I have run that style rocker on at least a dozen oval track motors that see 7 to 8000 rpm consistently = no issues using 7/16 studs & a quality double bar stud girdle.
If you are **** about the alignment you have several options.
Make a set of guide plates & have them heat treated.
Get self aligning rockers. They have either a flange on the roller tip or the rocker body has small nubs on both sides of the roller tip to keep the tip centered on the valve.
Get shaft mounted rockers.
Okay, if they won't experience side-to-side motion then I think I'll stick with what I have. As much as I'd like everything to be perfect, realistically time and money factor into the equation.
I'll keep an eye on it, and if things start to wear funny or I see any other problem I can always just pull the valve covers and replace the plates. Really wouldn't be much harder than replacing them right now.
On a related note, how often do you guys inspect new engines? Ever x miles? Every x times you drive it?
Is there anything in particular you look for under the valve covers? And do you inspect anything else other than the valve train?
On a related note, how often do you guys inspect new engines? Ever x miles? Every x times you drive it?
Is there anything in particular you look for under the valve covers? And do you inspect anything else other than the valve train?
Pull the dipstick after every startup, look for metal &/or water in the oil.
500 miles change oil & filter. Cut the filter open & inspect the media for metal particles. If your **** about it send the oil out for analysis.
Listen to it, noise = problems
If its quiet & there is not any metal or coolant in the oil
your good to go.
Well lets get u there first C4. Ive been holding some advice until u get the car ready enough as it would only distract your efforts.
But starting a replacement engine - let alone your first engine swap - u gonna have leaks. At least one water leak, one oil leak, possibly a fuel leak also. Something electrical wont work more likely in the ignition. But its good u have a roller cam as the old flat tappets were not forgiving and wiped lobes if u didnt get the engine to break-in RPM right away.
Anyways i think u already know what to look at. U will want to pop the vlv covers right after the first start and engine was heated up. With your vlv train problems i would look pop the vlv covers after the first drives everytime until u get some miles on it. Like churchkey said cut that filter after breakin/500mi and inspect. Maybe the next oil change too. U cant overdo it but we all have to compromise with our time available.
Because I'm using the oil pan off my old engine, I have to pull my old engine before I can put the new one all back together. I'm reading up on swapping the engine, and I see a lot of people recommend putting the car on jackstands. Do you think it would be okay for me to just drive it up onto my ramps?
Because I'm using the oil pan off my old engine, I have to pull my old engine before I can put the new one all back together. I'm reading up on swapping the engine, and I see a lot of people recommend putting the car on jackstands. Do you think it would be okay for me to just drive it up onto my ramps?
it ain't so much the height of the car, as it is the thickness of the mechanic....seriously I did a oil pan job on a 96 with the front end on ramps and the rear tires on the ground, and it worked for me and I'm pretty thick.
it ain't so much the height of the car, as it is the thickness of the mechanic....seriously I did a oil pan job on a 96 with the front end on ramps and the rear tires on the ground, and it worked for me and I'm pretty thick.
As long as the car not being level is fine, I'll just leave it on the ramps.
Surprisingly I've encountered very few problems, and have everything taken off the engine (except the water pump, which I'm just gonna leave on it until the engine is out). All I have to do now is unbolt it from the transmission.
I'm in the process of breaking all the bolts loose from the transmission to the bell housing. Once I finish I can support the transmission with a floor jack, take the bolts out all the way, and carefully hoist the engine out.
Edit:
Here's a picture.
I managed to get the tough bolts on the bellhousing, so tomorrow I'll put a jack under it and remove the other bolts. Then to pull it, do I just lift the engine and scoot it forward a bit as I do so?
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; 04-04-2015 at 02:11 AM.
I don't really have any questions, but I'm just updating in case anyone sees something I did wrong or is just curious how it's coming.
Okay, made some progress today although things slowed down alot.
Took off the water pump, power steering pump (I had it unbolted but just decided to remove it so it was out of the way), y-pipe flange nuts, crank pulley, and a few other things.
Seeing I had everything disconnected, I took out the bolts (one on each side) holding the two halves of the motor mounts together, put a jack under the transmission, and took out the bolts holding it to the clutch. I hooked up the hoist and lifted it (ended up having to jack up the car first and replace the left ramp with a jack stand) but couldn't figure out why the heck the engine wouldn't come forward at all.
After some head scratching, figured out (duh ) that the two halves of the motor mount are shaped so that the engine has to be lifted upward before it can move forward or backward. Which it can't be as far as I can tell without removing the transmission with the engine. So, I had to unbolt the engine mount from the engine itself. Which required removing the exhaust manifolds.
Long story short, one of the manifolds was tough to get off (and it still isn't off) and the mount bolts were even tougher. Had to call it quits for the night so I'll have to resume on Monday.
Then I hope to get the right manifold off, take out the last two motor mount bolts, and pull the engine. I'm just gonna lift it an inch or two then try to move it forward to unhook the clutch from the transmission. Sound right?
I don't really have any questions, but I'm just updating in case anyone sees something I did wrong or is just curious how it's coming.
Okay, made some progress today although things slowed down alot.
Took off the water pump, power steering pump (I had it unbolted but just decided to remove it so it was out of the way), y-pipe flange nuts, crank pulley, and a few other things.
Seeing I had everything disconnected, I took out the bolts (one on each side) holding the two halves of the motor mounts together, put a jack under the transmission, and took out the bolts holding it to the clutch. I hooked up the hoist and lifted it (ended up having to jack up the car first and replace the left ramp with a jack stand) but couldn't figure out why the heck the engine wouldn't come forward at all.
After some head scratching, figured out (duh ) that the two halves of the motor mount are shaped so that the engine has to be lifted upward before it can move forward or backward. Which it can't be as far as I can tell without removing the transmission with the engine. So, I had to unbolt the engine mount from the engine itself. Which required removing the exhaust manifolds.
Long story short, one of the manifolds was tough to get off (and it still isn't off) and the mount bolts were even tougher. Had to call it quits for the night so I'll have to resume on Monday.
Then I hope to get the right manifold off, take out the last two motor mount bolts, and pull the engine. I'm just gonna lift it an inch or two then try to move it forward to unhook the clutch from the transmission. Sound right?
you're almost there; one word of caution, exhaust manifold bolts can snap pretty easily; I just saw a 351 ford where "Bubba" snapped four of eight exhaust bolts, and no, he hadn't even started with the other side . Since they usually snap flush with surface of the head, if the bolts won't loosen, I'd grind the bolt head off before risking having the bolt snap.
Thanks. Fortunately mine came out pretty easy, but I made judicious use of penetrating oil.
Didn't have much time to work on it today, but I made a little progress. Figured out the AIR line had a bracket attaching it to the passenger side manifold that it was hanging up on, but then even after I disconnected it the A/C compressor was in the way so I couldn't get the manifold off. I worked around it though and got the last two motor mount bolts off.
I have everything disconnected (except the hydraulic cylinder on the clutch - guessing that needs to come off?) but that friggin engine still won't come out. I can see the lines going to the clutch aren't a problem at the moment since they have several sections of flexible rubber tubing on them.
My dad thought that maybe having the front higher made it so that gravity was making it to difficult to pull the engine (well, clutch) apart from the transmission because we'd have to pull it forward as well as slightly upward at the same time, so I jacked up the rear end too.
I found out that jacking up the rear end makes tons more coolant pour out of the engine and makes gas start gushing out of the fuel lines due to raising the gas tank, but no luck. I've decided the worst engine fluid to spill is ALL OF THEM.
I jacked the engine up so its weight is just barely off the engine mounts, then put the floor jack under the transmission to support it. We yanked that engine forward as hard as we could as we lifted the engine in increments up to about 1"-2" above the motor mounts. Thing's still stuck tight. It'll shake side to side no problem, but won't move forward an eighth of an inch.
Can anyone help? The swap's fallen behind schedule and I hate to be hung up on something as stupid as it just not coming apart from the transmission. I'm not sure if this is relevant at all, but the PO said he had the clutch replaced recently.
Insure all of the trans to bell housing bolts have been removed IIRC there are 5.
Engine / hoist rigging + trans jacking is important =
Trans C/L on line with the crank C/L for the long trans input shaft to slide out of the clutch disc & crank pilot bushing without binding.
Depressing the clutch pedal may help free any alignment/bind between the disc & input shaft..
03-27-2015, 04:22 PM
) that the two halves of the motor mount are shaped so that the engine has to be lifted upward before it can move forward or backward. Which it can't be as far as I can tell without removing the transmission with the engine. So, I had to unbolt the engine mount from the engine itself. Which required removing the exhaust manifolds.