tlaselva

I've finally have pics of my buddies LS2 402, 10.7cr, with a 2.65 pulley Magnuson w/ ECS's 8-rib pulley system & alky.

This setup was finally assembled only a few days prior to the track closing for the winter, so the car was taken to the track only after a 200 mile break in, and with a baseline Lingenfelter tune that came with the Maggie. Car was obviously running pig rich, which will be addressed this winter with HP-Tuner.

Prior to this setup, he had a stock LS6 with Headers & catback (stock cats) and a stock Lingenfelter polished Maggie w/ 3.4 pulley.
Nitto 555R's. Full street trim w/ full tire up front.



Here are the time-slips of the LS2 402, 10.7cr, Patriot Perf. LS6 style heads w/ 2.08 valve, ~230 cam, 2.65 pulley Magnuson w/ ECS's 8-rib pulley system & alky & Spec 3 clutch. Setup managed 8.5 lbs of boost with a manual boost gauge right off the line!
Best of a 10.94 @128.xx. He did get a 131 mph @ 11.3, but his 2 year old son managed to get to these time slips a few days ago, and thier location is still in question....
These times were done in full street trim, full tire up front, and 17" ET streets in the rear, coming off the line at idle.
Track conditions were crappy that day. (The track was shut down twice b/c of some light rain).
In comparison, my ECS 447ci did a best of 11.0 @ 129.5 at full street trim that day, first time at the track. (My power rating in my sig).



Here are pics of the setup under the hood.



Here's a pic of a 3.0" 6 rib pulley I'm holding in comparison to the 8-rib system supplied by ECS.
This 8-rib system HOLDS all the way up to redline!
Belt slip at the high rpm's is a thing of the past! (Thanks ECS!)



Here's a close-up of the current 2.6 pulley (isn't it cute). . .



Here's a comparison of a 3.0 pulley I'm holding as a comparison to the installed 2.6.



And another shot.



This winter, this setup will get a proper tune with a HP-Tuner, 90mm throttle-body, dump the cats, 3.73 gear and a full CCW drag pack.
Fairly certian it should be good for a few more mph....
There are a few other tricks up our sleeve for the Maggie, but that's for another thread.
Our goal is a mid 135mph setup, at mid to low 10's at full street trim . . . . wish us luck.

So all you guy's stating that the Maggie can't feed big cubes, well what do you have to say now? . . .

rmitchell242

i would not be happy if my n/a 402 only ran low 11's in the 1/4

jjjflex

Very nice! Can't wait to see the "few tricks"
Marry Christmas!!

tlaselva

Compare apples to apples.

I'm sure your N/A 402 can get a 1.60 short coming off the line at idle on a damp track, at full street trim, and pass emissions.

We prefer to racing our cars like we drive them on the street, in full street trim & legal. We prefer not to replace our driveline parts every half dozen runs, nor towing our cars to the track, or back from one. If that's your cup of tea, great. It isn't for us.

NICK YOSKIN

nice post!

i seen your car @ ecs when it was gettin big bore motor. nice ride.

rmitchell242

wouldnt be worried about emissions or damp tracks.
I do not have a 402 but a stock cube ls2 and no it would not pass emisions in mexico. And that is how i drive it on the street. I just felt that after swapin motors and going fi on it i would not be happy with an 11 that is all. I just see about 15k worth of mods that i would want makin at least 700-800 rwp

Mopar Jimmy

Very cool set-up, what a TORQUE MONSTER that most be!!! In response to the above post a 131 mph trap speed indicates that his only problem regarding his low 11 sec. time slip is traction, as that mph will support a solid deep 10 something time slip!!!

tlaselva

Thanks Nick.

She still makes me giggle like a school girl every time I start her up....

Dyno numbers don't win races.

It's not peak numbers, but power under the curve, and a predictable and linear power curve. This was the goal of the owner of this car.
Built a street car, with a 6-speed friendly power curve. A Vette that will stay true to it's origional design; able to swallow up a strip as well as the track, with a change of tires. Not power that demands an auto, stall converter, or nitrous.

RJW

2 questions...

1) Why did you go with such high CR?

2) Cam specs?

0Rob@ChampionMotors

He is running alki for octane needed.More comp= more power.

RJW

Actually, more comp = less power vs less comp and more boost...

On the other hand, at 10 PSI and his current blower speed, a bit more boost and blower rpm's and things could go downhill quickly.

Tlaselva...

What's the redline on the car? Blower porting? (In the near future)

Get ready to swap out the rear pullies soon

tlaselva

1) Because of the erroneous assumption that a Maggie can't make good boost with a 400ci+ motor and with a 226 intake port, he didn't believe he would make more than 5 lbs. of boost.
He was pleasantly suprised when he saw over 8 lbs of boost with a manual gauge.

2) 228/232 .588/.575 115lsa. (MTI's blower cam). There were concerns about piston to valve clearances when the parts were purchased, especially since flat top pistons were used. We later found that we had still over .200 clearance left.
He just purchased a set of Jessels 1.8 rockers for an extra .30 lift.

Redline is still set at 6200rpm (Stock Lingenfelter tune). With the HP tune, were going to raise that to at least 6800rpm.
When he brought up the subject of porting to Magnuson, they mentioned that the Maggie is ported as well as it could get, and was animate that any more porting would just be detrimental.

He’s running 26 degrees of timing right now, w/o pinging. If compression was an issue, he wouldn’t be able to run this much timing. The LS2 motor is noticeably more efficient than the stock LS6, which could only run 24 degrees at best. When the rear pulley swap is done for more boost, all we’d have to do is lower the timing. High cylinder pressure = Mo power!

I'm not sure if you know, but Lingenfelter did make 630rwhp with a Maggie on a 427 with their heads, 2.8 front pulley and underdirve pulleys in the rear. For some reason or another, it doesn't seem to be advertised much....
Maggie did install one on a 427 also, and got 650rwhp. (Can you just image the torque)....

If your interested, ATI does also make a 1/2 inch bigger crank pulley for increased gearing for mo boost.

RJW

If you were to do it again, would you lower the CR?

Seems like you have some room for improvement (which is good news). The 600+ motors that you mention couldn't get much more boost without spinning to infinity. I believe around 5 PSI.

Remembering that boost is resistance to flow, while CFM = mo power

tlaselva

He wouldn't go with lower CR b/c he would rather put on a bigger CC intake port volume to increase flow (ETP heads ~240cc are under consideration), which would lower the boost pressure. All things being equal, your better off having the motor itself make the power than the blower.
The Maggie was made to work with high compression motors.
Also keep in mind, that a lower compression motor will feel more sluggish on the street for everyday drivability, as it will have a much lower torque number. Yes, if your application was an all out drag car, you'd be better off with less compression and more boost. But our goal is a car with power responsiveness throughout the entire rev range, not just the higher rpm range for strip.
Compare equal HP rating with boosted applications; you'll see the torque at the lower rpm’s can't compete. Usually, they need over 100HP more to make the same peak torque, and still won't match the bottom end torque, which is many of us are most of the time with a street car. Not to mention the advantage of monstrous & linear torque characteristics throughout the rev range on a road course.
This is why he can come off at idle, and still have to pedal the throttle in first & second gear, and knock off a 1.60 short with a stock 6-speed. Try that with a turbo car.
At the strip, IMO, torque is more important than HP. This is why many people install 4.10 gears in power adders which are weak in torque, such as H/C cars to increase their torque numbers, sacrificing their HP.
Imagine this Maggie car with a 4.10 gear, open headers and a slick....

Having said all this, this is all I(our)HO, and love to hear anyone's opinions/rebuttal on this.

#001 2001 Z06

RJW,

This very true. I have good friend that has this exact setup. Intercooled Magnussen, 4.10's, you name it. Car runs like a bat out of hell. Power at will and ease into the throttle at any point of time. There are very few turbo cars that run with boost on demand.

Brent


P.S.He has about 90k in ride (Everything on it and Show Quality (Hand Painted stuff/braided lines, 6k tires, 5k stereo, etc.)), for sale for about half that(or best offer) 2002 Blk Z06 20k Miles. PM me if you have a buddy.

Operations

SpinMonster

What lifters were used in the 402?

RJW

Guys,,,I am by no means campaigning for 7 to 1 CR on Maggie cars, just throwing out what I am sure has been addressed by everyone who built a forged bottom end for a Maggie.

Here is a bit of my history...

I was party to building 2 1.8L motors both to be used with Maggie (MP62's). Bear in mind that a MP62 on a 1.8L is a lot more blower than a 112 on a 350 or 402. Also bear in mind that the cars weighed 2300 lbs. Both cars had ported heads, exhaust, etc. and had to run on 93 octane.

In one case, we went with 10.5 to 1 CR, and developped around 280 rwhp/250 rwtq, 12 psi with I/C and 50/50 alky/water injection. Blower was spinning at around 17k. Any more and knock set in. Also, fine tuning was needed to eliminate some part throttle knock as well.

In the other car we went 8.6 CR, and got 340rwhp/300rwtq at 21 psi with water only injection. Blower speed at redline is over 21k. This car has been the world record holder for power with this motor/blower/car combo for over a year and counting.

The 21 PSI car made 300 rwtq at under 3k, with the usual table top torque curve that we all love with a Maggie.

Now I am in the process of building the first of several LS1's, so I am very curious as to where the ideal CR would fall with this combo. I face a decision that has to be made within 1 day or 2 regarding CR. The combo of current parts is resulting in a CR of 10 to 1. I need to decide whether to stick with this or dump the pistons and go 8.6 CR.

If I recall correctly, you get about 3% more power per point of CR, while you get 5 or 6% more per pound of boost.

Magnuson's (and most others) theory is that keeping the CR at stock level is the way to go. As a builder and with my previous smaller Mag experience, I am still questioning this.

After all, who has run a Mag on an 8.5 CR engine and turned it up?

BTW, driveability with the 1.8 @ 8.6 was still awesome. After all, it hit 15 PSI instantly, and anywhere in the rpm range.

One other note, is that it is quite common for Maggie setups to make more torque related to hp when the boost is turned up.

I also thought that the Mag and LPE numbers were on an engine dyno?

Thoughts? (and HELP!! )

DOUG @ ECS

Nice results Tony,
I am personally most impressed with the amount of boost your making on the 402. Track times cant even be brought into the picture with your combination and a base Mag mail order tune. You'll get that car where it needs to be
I'll pm you some tuning tips

oufan2929

I'm not real knowledgeable about the maggie stuff, but I think you may have answered your own question when you said "Bear in mind that a MP62 on a 1.8L is a lot more blower than a 112 on a 350 or 402." I don't think the maggie could make anywhere close to that kind of boost on a proportionally smaller blower. Hence why you'd need to squeeze a lot of the power out of the CR. I think your 10:1 sounds good