Road rage....... Think twice
10-29-2014, 04:50 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
The world has changed, many people feel more alienated an unhappy than ever, and its best to do everything possible to avoid contact with people who seem even the slightest bit irrational or angry. When someone pulls up next to me in anger or honks at me, I just hold my hand up in apology and get on with my day. I've got nothing to prove at this stage of my life, and I kind of assume that aggressive people are capable of much worse than I'm prepared to contend with.
Last edited by JR-01; 10-30-2014 at 09:38 AM.
10-30-2014, 02:01 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
10-30-2014, 02:59 AM
#23
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I agree that this was a sad case of what can happen with road rage, but what do you do when someone is actively trying to run you off the road, or at least trying to slam into the side of your car?
I was heading home one afternoon after visiting my daughter and ran into a massive traffic jam. At one point I was behind an F150 pickup that kept braking for no apparent reason (he had multiple car lengths open in front of him), and doing so in a way that I did not feel safe behind him. When the opportunity presented itself I got into the next lane over and moved up several cars so the truck was multiple cars behind me. The next thing I knew this guy was beside me and attempting to slam his truck into my car. We were in bumper to bumper traffic so there wasn't much I could do other than swerve to avoid him when I could. I tried to slow down to let him just go by, but he slowed down as well and kept trying to run into me, so the first chance I got I floored it, which luckily happened to be right at the end of the traffic jam, and hit triple digit speed (in Mexico) to get away from the nutjob. Even so, he kept trying to catch up to me until I exited the freeway.
I was heading home one afternoon after visiting my daughter and ran into a massive traffic jam. At one point I was behind an F150 pickup that kept braking for no apparent reason (he had multiple car lengths open in front of him), and doing so in a way that I did not feel safe behind him. When the opportunity presented itself I got into the next lane over and moved up several cars so the truck was multiple cars behind me. The next thing I knew this guy was beside me and attempting to slam his truck into my car. We were in bumper to bumper traffic so there wasn't much I could do other than swerve to avoid him when I could. I tried to slow down to let him just go by, but he slowed down as well and kept trying to run into me, so the first chance I got I floored it, which luckily happened to be right at the end of the traffic jam, and hit triple digit speed (in Mexico) to get away from the nutjob. Even so, he kept trying to catch up to me until I exited the freeway.
The way I see your situation in the above post is you made a couple of mistakes. One you made a bad choice in wanting this "Jerk" behind you. I always want them ahead of me so that I can make the choices as they need to be made. Second is even if you were carrying a handgun, you first responsibility to remove yourself from harms way. Granted you did this in time but could you have de escalated the situation sooner?
When a person takes on the responsibility of carrying a legal firearm also takes on the responsibility to never ever use it in any way without just cause, and in the protection of a "LIFE" when there is no other choice to be made. Your Corvette, no matter how much you love it, is not a life its just stuff. Anyone who kills over just some stuff needs to be put away for a very long time.
I have seen right here on this board the conversation about guns and carry. I have seen some post that show a very cavalier and Macho attitude about the use of a weapon in certain situations. I always laugh at these post and dismiss them as being mostly just bravado, and usually coming from the children who are a part of every talk Forum on the Net ( by the way age is not the determining factor in the making of these children, lots of 50+ children). If you ever find yourself in a spot ( and I pray you never do) where deadly force is the only thing left to you, we all need to ask ourself a few questions. Can I do this? Can I pull this trigger and ****** the life right out of this man? Is there no other way out? Is that the only choice I have remaining? Those are very BIG questions. Take it from me a man who has had to make that choice...
Roland
10-30-2014, 07:23 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
Ed in responding to your post I have the advantage of hindsight so please take this in that way. In Texas you do have the right to own and carry a handgun with a permit. However no where in the country do you have the right to brandish that handgun no matter the situation. That can get you killed real quick, as that is bluff. What you do have the right to do is to protect yourself and your family if there is no other possible outcome.
The way I see your situation in the above post is you made a couple of mistakes. One you made a bad choice in wanting this "Jerk" behind you. I always want them ahead of me so that I can make the choices as they need to be made. Second is even if you were carrying a handgun, you first responsibility to remove yourself from harms way. Granted you did this in time but could you have de escalated the situation sooner?
When a person takes on the responsibility of carrying a legal firearm also takes on the responsibility to never ever use it in any way without just cause, and in the protection of a "LIFE" when there is no other choice to be made. Your Corvette, no matter how much you love it, is not a life its just stuff. Anyone who kills over just some stuff needs to be put away for a very long time.
I have seen right here on this board the conversation about guns and carry. I have seen some post that show a very cavalier and Macho attitude about the use of a weapon in certain situations. I always laugh at these post and dismiss them as being mostly just bravado, and usually coming from the children who are a part of every talk Forum on the Net ( by the way age is not the determining factor in the making of these children, lots of 50+ children). If you ever find yourself in a spot ( and I pray you never do) where deadly force is the only thing left to you, we all need to ask ourself a few questions. Can I do this? Can I pull this trigger and ****** the life right out of this man? Is there no other way out? Is that the only choice I have remaining? Those are very BIG questions. Take it from me a man who has had to make that choice...
Roland
The way I see your situation in the above post is you made a couple of mistakes. One you made a bad choice in wanting this "Jerk" behind you. I always want them ahead of me so that I can make the choices as they need to be made. Second is even if you were carrying a handgun, you first responsibility to remove yourself from harms way. Granted you did this in time but could you have de escalated the situation sooner?
When a person takes on the responsibility of carrying a legal firearm also takes on the responsibility to never ever use it in any way without just cause, and in the protection of a "LIFE" when there is no other choice to be made. Your Corvette, no matter how much you love it, is not a life its just stuff. Anyone who kills over just some stuff needs to be put away for a very long time.
I have seen right here on this board the conversation about guns and carry. I have seen some post that show a very cavalier and Macho attitude about the use of a weapon in certain situations. I always laugh at these post and dismiss them as being mostly just bravado, and usually coming from the children who are a part of every talk Forum on the Net ( by the way age is not the determining factor in the making of these children, lots of 50+ children). If you ever find yourself in a spot ( and I pray you never do) where deadly force is the only thing left to you, we all need to ask ourself a few questions. Can I do this? Can I pull this trigger and ****** the life right out of this man? Is there no other way out? Is that the only choice I have remaining? Those are very BIG questions. Take it from me a man who has had to make that choice...
Roland
10-30-2014, 09:35 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
Ed in responding to your post I have the advantage of hindsight so please take this in that way. In Texas you do have the right to own and carry a handgun with a permit. However no where in the country do you have the right to brandish that handgun no matter the situation. That can get you killed real quick, as that is bluff. What you do have the right to do is to protect yourself and your family if there is no other possible outcome.
The way I see your situation in the above post is you made a couple of mistakes. One you made a bad choice in wanting this "Jerk" behind you. I always want them ahead of me so that I can make the choices as they need to be made. Second is even if you were carrying a handgun, you first responsibility to remove yourself from harms way. Granted you did this in time but could you have de escalated the situation sooner?
When a person takes on the responsibility of carrying a legal firearm also takes on the responsibility to never ever use it in any way without just cause, and in the protection of a "LIFE" when there is no other choice to be made. Your Corvette, no matter how much you love it, is not a life its just stuff. Anyone who kills over just some stuff needs to be put away for a very long time.
I have seen right here on this board the conversation about guns and carry. I have seen some post that show a very cavalier and Macho attitude about the use of a weapon in certain situations. I always laugh at these post and dismiss them as being mostly just bravado, and usually coming from the children who are a part of every talk Forum on the Net ( by the way age is not the determining factor in the making of these children, lots of 50+ children). If you ever find yourself in a spot ( and I pray you never do) where deadly force is the only thing left to you, we all need to ask ourself a few questions. Can I do this? Can I pull this trigger and ****** the life right out of this man? Is there no other way out? Is that the only choice I have remaining? Those are very BIG questions. Take it from me a man who has had to make that choice...
Roland
The way I see your situation in the above post is you made a couple of mistakes. One you made a bad choice in wanting this "Jerk" behind you. I always want them ahead of me so that I can make the choices as they need to be made. Second is even if you were carrying a handgun, you first responsibility to remove yourself from harms way. Granted you did this in time but could you have de escalated the situation sooner?
When a person takes on the responsibility of carrying a legal firearm also takes on the responsibility to never ever use it in any way without just cause, and in the protection of a "LIFE" when there is no other choice to be made. Your Corvette, no matter how much you love it, is not a life its just stuff. Anyone who kills over just some stuff needs to be put away for a very long time.
I have seen right here on this board the conversation about guns and carry. I have seen some post that show a very cavalier and Macho attitude about the use of a weapon in certain situations. I always laugh at these post and dismiss them as being mostly just bravado, and usually coming from the children who are a part of every talk Forum on the Net ( by the way age is not the determining factor in the making of these children, lots of 50+ children). If you ever find yourself in a spot ( and I pray you never do) where deadly force is the only thing left to you, we all need to ask ourself a few questions. Can I do this? Can I pull this trigger and ****** the life right out of this man? Is there no other way out? Is that the only choice I have remaining? Those are very BIG questions. Take it from me a man who has had to make that choice...
Roland
Great post.
I agree that wanting to get ahead of this guy and blowing by him was a mistake. That put the target on you. Best to hang back and let others pass him to see his reaction and then dial 911 if possible.
10-30-2014, 10:48 AM
#26
Race Director
My thinking is that he was braking as he was intentionally because of the car I was driving, and he was pissed when I ruined his "fun" by removing myself from what I saw as a dangerous situation. Others were doing exactly as I did, but it was me he came after, which tells me that I'm probably correct.
10-30-2014, 10:57 AM
#28
Something to consider when the use of deadly force to protect something other than your life. Each of use is allotted a finite amount of time on this planet and we spend a lot of that time working to produce something of value that we care about. Be that a car or a house, these objects represent a portion of our life and I might argue that use of deadly force would depend on the value of that material thing and how much of a person's life went into producing it or making ownership possible. Consider that a person who makes a million dollars a year would only lose some very small fraction of his "life" if someone stole or destroyed his car, if it were uninsured. However, imagine someone who saves for ten or twenty years to own something and some low-life, waste of humanity attempts to steal or destroy it. Changes things, no? A person who attempts to deprive another of their property or liberty, really a different side of the same coin, deserves to be met with force. Horse thievery used to be punishable by death because so much of a person's life was dependent on his or her horse. How about your house? Arsonist comes and is in the process of lighting the match, what say you? All of your stuff worth the cost of "one human life"? Well, in the simplest of terms, I would argue that anyone who would commit that crime of arson gives up their rights to be treated as a human being and falls easily in the catagory of a rabid animal. We lose some of OUR civility when we tolerate serious crimes. The deterent value of being killed can't be understated.
10-30-2014, 11:08 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
Something to consider when the use of deadly force to protect something other than your life. Each of use is allotted a finite amount of time on this planet and we spend a lot of that time working to produce something of value that we care about. Be that a car or a house, these objects represent a portion of our life and I might argue that use of deadly force would depend on the value of that material thing and how much of a person's life went into producing it or making ownership possible. Consider that a person who makes a million dollars a year would only lose some very small fraction of his "life" if someone stole or destroyed his car, if it were uninsured. However, imagine someone who saves for ten or twenty years to own something and some low-life, waste of humanity attempts to steal or destroy it. Changes things, no? A person who attempts to deprive another of their property or liberty, really a different side of the same coin, deserves to be met with force. Horse thievery used to be punishable by death because so much of a person's life was dependent on his or her horse. How about your house? Arsonist comes and is in the process of lighting the match, what say you? All of your stuff worth the cost of "one human life"? Well, in the simplest of terms, I would argue that anyone who would commit that crime of arson gives up their rights to be treated as a human being and falls easily in the catagory of a rabid animal. We lose some of OUR civility when we tolerate serious crimes. The deterent value of being killed can't be understated.
10-30-2014, 11:38 AM
#30
That's how they still handle it in third world countries. Theft is no longer a capital crime and it up to the courts to hand out punishment, not the individual. I have seen on this forum where some would kill a person for stealing their tires. They are the ones with mental problems.
10-30-2014, 11:46 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
No, in third world countries, unlike the United States, your personal property might be something that is of incredible value to you and your family. I would argue that it is "we" that have it backwards when we place all things "material" in the same basket. Would I think it's worth it to kill someone for stealing my work boots off my front steps? Nope, and not because it's against the law, but because most likely anyone who is stealing work boots needs them in a way where their life is worth more than my boots. Now, if I were a farmer and someone was stealing my tractor that I absolutely needed to feed MY family, well, if that's what it takes to prevent that theft of MY property and life's time, so be it. Point is that the "third world" places a very high cost on many things that we consider very replaceable because "we" are wealthy. Perhaps it is you that need to consider things from their perspective, no? Our laws have evolved to some degree to represent this degree of relative wealth, but I would argue that they it's gone too far. A person who brings VIOLENCE and FORCE to take someone from you is a VERY dangerous person and needs to be either locked up for a very long time or killed. Sooner or later they will resort to killing someone when the fear of leaving a witness to their "robbery" is too great.
10-30-2014, 01:14 PM
#32
Race Director
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That's how they still handle it in third world countries. Theft is no longer a capital crime and it up to the courts to hand out punishment, not the individual. I have seen on this forum where some would kill a person for stealing their tires. They are the ones with mental problems.
10-30-2014, 01:33 PM
#33
Another way to consider common "theft" of your tires: Say those tires cost you $1,200. Say you make $25 per hour, very middle class. That thief, whether by force or stealth, is taking the 48 hours of your life that it took to produce the wealth needed to buy "just tires". Would it be different if the thief took YOU captive and forced you to work for nothing? Theft of your labor and your time, either way.
10-30-2014, 01:39 PM
#34
Race Director
Considering the way the guy was driving, with unsafe acceleration and slamming on his brakes, I disagree. Behind him was the worst place to be. Getting out from behind him and putting several cars between us was the safest move for me to make. I certainly did nothing to provoke his reaction, other than the fact that I was driving a Corvette.
10-30-2014, 02:03 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
call me crazy then, I work my *** off for the stuff I have and I'll be damned if I'm just going to let a thief take something away from me and just sit back and watch and let the "legal" system give the criminal a slap on the wrist and me be lucky to get my stuff back, let alone in the shape it was in before the theft took place... if I catch them in the act that will be the last theft they attempt if I have any control over it and if you don't like it, we'll don't steal simple as that
10-30-2014, 02:06 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Considering the way the guy was driving, with unsafe acceleration and slamming on his brakes, I disagree. Behind him was the worst place to be. Getting out from behind him and putting several cars between us was the safest move for me to make. I certainly did nothing to provoke his reaction, other than the fact that I was driving a Corvette.
10-30-2014, 02:13 PM
#37
Race Director
At the time I moved in front of him I was unaware of any hostility he had toward me. As a former certified advanced driving instructor, one who has trained hundreds of professional drivers how to drive more safely, the safest place to have an unsafe driver is behind you. It wasn't until I'd removed him from my driving situation that he decided to put himself back into it.
10-30-2014, 02:47 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
At the time I moved in front of him I was unaware of any hostility he had toward me. As a former certified advanced driving instructor, one who has trained hundreds of professional drivers how to drive more safely, the safest place to have an unsafe driver is behind you. It wasn't until I'd removed him from my driving situation that he decided to put himself back into it.
Having an unsafe driver behind you is not always the best position to be in. You proved that. It's just lucky he wasn't really crazy.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-pho...ficer-arrested
People are crazy and it brings out their insanity when they get behind the wheel.
Last edited by JR-01; 10-30-2014 at 02:50 PM.
10-30-2014, 03:05 PM
#39
Race Director
No, I didn't prove anything. If he'd just been the typical idiot driver, which I'd initially thought he was, getting in front of him would have solved the problem and I wouldn't have had to worry about him again. When you are behind someone, their driving affects and controls yours; when you are in front of them, you control theirs. Being a poor driver and being an asshat with road rage, while related, are not the same thing.
