Lets talk Flywheels
03-09-2008, 12:42 PM
#1
Racer
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Lets talk Flywheels
I will be doing mostly street driving and drag racing, with maybe the occasional road race. My car has the A&A vortech kit and long tube headers. I plan on putting in the centerforce dual friction clutch.
1) Should I go with a stock LS7 flywheel, billet steel flywheel, or
lightweight aluminum flywheel?
2) Would a Spec billet steel flywheel work with the centerforce 12"
DFC?
3) Does a billet steel flywheel offer significant gains over a stock
flywheel?
1) Should I go with a stock LS7 flywheel, billet steel flywheel, or
lightweight aluminum flywheel?
2) Would a Spec billet steel flywheel work with the centerforce 12"
DFC?
3) Does a billet steel flywheel offer significant gains over a stock
flywheel?
03-09-2008, 12:50 PM
#2
Tech Contributor
I will be doing mostly street driving and drag racing, with maybe the occasional road race. My car has the A&A vortech kit and long tube headers. I plan on putting in the centerforce dual friction clutch.
1) Should I go with a stock LS7 flywheel, billet steel flywheel, or
lightweight aluminum flywheel?
2) Would a Spec billet steel flywheel work with the centerforce 12"
DFC?
3) Does a billet steel flywheel offer significant gains over a stock
flywheel?
1) Should I go with a stock LS7 flywheel, billet steel flywheel, or
lightweight aluminum flywheel?
2) Would a Spec billet steel flywheel work with the centerforce 12"
DFC?
3) Does a billet steel flywheel offer significant gains over a stock
flywheel?
03-09-2008, 01:02 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
I'm running a Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel with my Dual Friction and had no problems. It revs quick and grabs great 
.
.
03-09-2008, 01:10 PM
#5
Racer
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I have seen that centerforce doesnt recommend an aluminum flywheel, but I have seen a couple people running them...
03-09-2008, 01:13 PM
#6
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03-09-2008, 01:56 PM
#7
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03-09-2008, 02:30 PM
#8
Former Vendor
Go aluminum....
For good all around performance your total flywheel/clutch package should ideally weigh (IMO) 35-40 lbs (dont forget when I say total Im referring to the entire flywheel, pressure plate, and disc(s) assemly). That total figure will work well to free up some horsepower, allow for quicker rev's, and still have enough inertia that our lightweight Vette's wont need a lot of RPM leaving a traffic light, stop sign, etc.
Ive even driven a 32 pound assembly that I honestly felt drove fine (more than acceptable for a dual purpose street machine) but it needed a little more throttle from a light to smoothly pull away (rev'ed quickly however which I liked).
A heavy stock LS7 set-up will rob you of 12-14 RWHP over a clutch assembly that weighs what I described above (35-40lbs) with notacably more lethargic throttle response....not ideal IMO
GM does that so the non performance oriented public can lift their foot off the clutch and the car gets smoothly rolling with practically zero added throttle (it has more mass and inertia to allow that to happen). Downside is when you want to accelerate now you also have to accelerate all that extra mass....its always there and never goes away. Its the equivalent of bolting on a set of rims and tires that are 10 pounds heavier at every corner (engine must accelerate more mass)....those that have experienced that know the feeling. Of course that also degrades ride quality which would not be related to the clutch analogy...
Clutch diameter also plays into the inertia game....a 40lb dual disc assembly with 9" discs (and a small diameter pressure plate) will have less inertia (and more "zing") than a 34 lb. single disc 11" set-up because a good portion of the weight is further from crank centerline with the single disc assembly (distance from crank centerline has more of an impact on inertia than total weight but both are important and need to be considered for an "ideal" set-up). Either choice however is worlds better than say the LS7 set-up because the LS7 set-up is big diameter and very heavy....the worst of both situations.
Hope this info helps....
Tony
For good all around performance your total flywheel/clutch package should ideally weigh (IMO) 35-40 lbs (dont forget when I say total Im referring to the entire flywheel, pressure plate, and disc(s) assemly). That total figure will work well to free up some horsepower, allow for quicker rev's, and still have enough inertia that our lightweight Vette's wont need a lot of RPM leaving a traffic light, stop sign, etc.
Ive even driven a 32 pound assembly that I honestly felt drove fine (more than acceptable for a dual purpose street machine) but it needed a little more throttle from a light to smoothly pull away (rev'ed quickly however which I liked).
A heavy stock LS7 set-up will rob you of 12-14 RWHP over a clutch assembly that weighs what I described above (35-40lbs) with notacably more lethargic throttle response....not ideal IMO
GM does that so the non performance oriented public can lift their foot off the clutch and the car gets smoothly rolling with practically zero added throttle (it has more mass and inertia to allow that to happen). Downside is when you want to accelerate now you also have to accelerate all that extra mass....its always there and never goes away. Its the equivalent of bolting on a set of rims and tires that are 10 pounds heavier at every corner (engine must accelerate more mass)....those that have experienced that know the feeling. Of course that also degrades ride quality which would not be related to the clutch analogy...
Clutch diameter also plays into the inertia game....a 40lb dual disc assembly with 9" discs (and a small diameter pressure plate) will have less inertia (and more "zing") than a 34 lb. single disc 11" set-up because a good portion of the weight is further from crank centerline with the single disc assembly (distance from crank centerline has more of an impact on inertia than total weight but both are important and need to be considered for an "ideal" set-up). Either choice however is worlds better than say the LS7 set-up because the LS7 set-up is big diameter and very heavy....the worst of both situations.
Hope this info helps....
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 03-09-2008 at 02:40 PM.
03-09-2008, 02:43 PM
#9
Racer
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Go aluminum....
For good all around performance your total flywheel/clutch package should ideally weigh (IMO) 35-40 lbs (dont forget when I say total Im referring to the entire flywheel, pressure plate, and disc(s) assemly). That total figure will work well to free up some horsepower, allow for quicker rev's, and still have enough inertia that our lightweight Vette's wont need a lot of RPM leaving a traffic light, stop sign, etc.
Ive even driven a 32 pound assembly that I honestly felt drove fine (more than acceptable for a dual purpose street machine) but it needed a little more throttle from a light to smoothly pull away (rev'ed quickly however which I liked).
A heavy stock LS7 set-up will rob you of 12-14 RWHP over a clutch assembly that weighs what I described above (35-40lbs) with notacably more lethargic throttle response....not ideal IMO
GM does that so the non performance oriented public can lift their foot off the clutch and the car gets smoothly rolling with practically zero added throttle (it has more mass and inertia to allow that to happen). Downside is when you want to accelerate now you also have to accelerate all that extra mass....its always there and never goes away. Its the equivalent of bolting on a set of rims and tires that are 10 pounds heavier at every corner (engine must accelerate more mass)....those that have experienced that know the feeling. Of course that also degrades ride quality which would not be related to the clutch analogy...
Clutch diameter also plays into the inertia game....a 40lb dual disc assembly with 9" discs (and a small diameter pressure plate) will have less inertia (and more "zing") than a 34 lb. single disc 11" set-up because a good portion of the weight is further from crank centerline with the single disc assembly (distance from crank centerline has more of an impact on inertia than total weight but both are important and need to be considered for an "ideal" set-up). Either choice however is worlds better than say the LS7 set-up because the LS7 set-up is big diameter and very heavy....the worst of both situations.
Hope this info helps....
Tony
For good all around performance your total flywheel/clutch package should ideally weigh (IMO) 35-40 lbs (dont forget when I say total Im referring to the entire flywheel, pressure plate, and disc(s) assemly). That total figure will work well to free up some horsepower, allow for quicker rev's, and still have enough inertia that our lightweight Vette's wont need a lot of RPM leaving a traffic light, stop sign, etc.
Ive even driven a 32 pound assembly that I honestly felt drove fine (more than acceptable for a dual purpose street machine) but it needed a little more throttle from a light to smoothly pull away (rev'ed quickly however which I liked).
A heavy stock LS7 set-up will rob you of 12-14 RWHP over a clutch assembly that weighs what I described above (35-40lbs) with notacably more lethargic throttle response....not ideal IMO
GM does that so the non performance oriented public can lift their foot off the clutch and the car gets smoothly rolling with practically zero added throttle (it has more mass and inertia to allow that to happen). Downside is when you want to accelerate now you also have to accelerate all that extra mass....its always there and never goes away. Its the equivalent of bolting on a set of rims and tires that are 10 pounds heavier at every corner (engine must accelerate more mass)....those that have experienced that know the feeling. Of course that also degrades ride quality which would not be related to the clutch analogy...
Clutch diameter also plays into the inertia game....a 40lb dual disc assembly with 9" discs (and a small diameter pressure plate) will have less inertia (and more "zing") than a 34 lb. single disc 11" set-up because a good portion of the weight is further from crank centerline with the single disc assembly (distance from crank centerline has more of an impact on inertia than total weight but both are important and need to be considered for an "ideal" set-up). Either choice however is worlds better than say the LS7 set-up because the LS7 set-up is big diameter and very heavy....the worst of both situations.
Hope this info helps....
Tony
Thanks alot Tony. I have seen several people on the forum that have the centerforce dual friction/aluminum fidanza flywheel combo, yet centerforce recommends a steel flywheel. Should I be worrried about buying an aluminum flywheel with the centerforce dual friction clutch? Also, will any brand of aluminum or billet steel flywheel built for the LS1 fit the centerforce dual friction clutch/pressure plate?
Thanks!
03-09-2008, 03:26 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Some street racing sometimes I've launched hard on it a couple of times but mostly street driving.
03-09-2008, 03:35 PM
#11
Former Vendor
Thanks alot Tony. I have seen several people on the forum that have the centerforce dual friction/aluminum fidanza flywheel combo, yet centerforce recommends a steel flywheel. Should I be worrried about buying an aluminum flywheel with the centerforce dual friction clutch? Also, will any brand of aluminum or billet steel flywheel built for the LS1 fit the centerforce dual friction clutch/pressure plate?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Confirm thats the case with the centerforce unit you like and then go buy the aluminum flywheel of your choice. I dont think you have very many choices though. Fidenza probably makes that wheel for most of the other companies advertising one.
Tony
PS....Assuming you do the aluminum flywheel set-up, make sure you weigh the total assembly when your done and report back after you've driven it. Another Internet wives tale is that you cant run an aluminum wheel on the street and you have to rev the engine alot if you do blah, blah, blah.....its NOT the case. Your going to love the reduced inertia and extra response. Report back in this thread....it would be a nice way to wrap it up with real world independent results.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 03-09-2008 at 03:39 PM.
03-09-2008, 03:44 PM
#12
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Buy a Fidenza aluminum wheel (or the equivalent). As long as the centerforce attaches their pressure plate in the stock mounting bolt locations of the wheel (highly likely), any aftermarket aluminum wheel would work as they would obviously have the stock mounting holes as well.
Confirm thats the case with the centerforce unit you like and then go buy the aluminum flywheel of your choice. I dont think you have very many choices though. Fidenza probably makes that wheel for most of the other companies advertising one.
Tony
PS....Assuming you do the aluminum flywheel set-up, make sure you weigh the total assembly when your done and report back after you've driven it. Another Internet wives tale is that you cant run an aluminum wheel on the street and you have to rev the engine alot if you do blah, blah, blah.....its NOT the case. Your going to love the reduced inertia and extra response. Report back in this thread....it would be a nice way to wrap it up with real world independent results.
Confirm thats the case with the centerforce unit you like and then go buy the aluminum flywheel of your choice. I dont think you have very many choices though. Fidenza probably makes that wheel for most of the other companies advertising one.
Tony
PS....Assuming you do the aluminum flywheel set-up, make sure you weigh the total assembly when your done and report back after you've driven it. Another Internet wives tale is that you cant run an aluminum wheel on the street and you have to rev the engine alot if you do blah, blah, blah.....its NOT the case. Your going to love the reduced inertia and extra response. Report back in this thread....it would be a nice way to wrap it up with real world independent results.
Should I go with the ARP flywheel bolts instead of new GM bolts, or does it really make a difference?
Also, how much clutch fluid do I need to buy to fill it back up?
Last edited by Ilovechevymusclecars; 03-09-2008 at 04:06 PM.
03-09-2008, 06:07 PM
#13
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Thanks alot. I should have the clutch installed in the next 2 weeks, so I'll be sure to post a review.
Should I go with the ARP flywheel bolts instead of new GM bolts, or does it really make a difference?
Also, how much clutch fluid do I need to buy to fill it back up?
Should I go with the ARP flywheel bolts instead of new GM bolts, or does it really make a difference?
Also, how much clutch fluid do I need to buy to fill it back up?
03-09-2008, 08:30 PM
#14
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Thanks alot. I should have the clutch installed in the next 2 weeks, so I'll be sure to post a review.
Should I go with the ARP flywheel bolts instead of new GM bolts, or does it really make a difference?
Also, how much clutch fluid do I need to buy to fill it back up?
Should I go with the ARP flywheel bolts instead of new GM bolts, or does it really make a difference?
Also, how much clutch fluid do I need to buy to fill it back up?
03-09-2008, 09:35 PM
#15
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confused on which size the 9" or 12" centerforce DF to go with to provide more "inertia" and what exactly does this equate to with an aluminum flywheel?
im assuming the 12 inch for more grab? ...plan on doing this clutch swap with a aluminum flywheel and getting insight
im assuming the 12 inch for more grab? ...plan on doing this clutch swap with a aluminum flywheel and getting insight
03-09-2008, 09:55 PM
#16
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I don't already need the flywheel bolts when I take it to a machine shop to get it zero balanced, right?
03-09-2008, 10:12 PM
#17
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ya thats the exact setup that i will be doing... including all the replacements
wouldn't it already be 0 balanced from centerforce though? where are you purchasing your centerforce clutch from? straight from centerforce?
wouldn't it already be 0 balanced from centerforce though? where are you purchasing your centerforce clutch from? straight from centerforce?
03-09-2008, 10:18 PM
#18
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St. Jude Donor '03
He's mating it to a different flywheel.
If you buy a complete clutch/flywheel kit as a package, they generally come balanced.
If you buy a clutch from vendor A, and a flywheel from vendor B....it's best to mate the parts and get the whole assembly balanced as a set before installing.
If you buy a complete clutch/flywheel kit as a package, they generally come balanced.
If you buy a clutch from vendor A, and a flywheel from vendor B....it's best to mate the parts and get the whole assembly balanced as a set before installing.
03-09-2008, 10:31 PM
#19
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He's mating it to a different flywheel.
If you buy a complete clutch/flywheel kit as a package, they generally come balanced.
If you buy a clutch from vendor A, and a flywheel from vendor B....it's best to mate the parts and get the whole assembly balanced as a set before installing.
If you buy a complete clutch/flywheel kit as a package, they generally come balanced.
If you buy a clutch from vendor A, and a flywheel from vendor B....it's best to mate the parts and get the whole assembly balanced as a set before installing.
03-10-2008, 12:05 AM
#20
Former Vendor
Better check compatibility of the 12" set-up with the aluminum wheel. Make sure the flywheel has the holes for the pressure plate in the correct location (they will be outboard of the 10.5 and 11 inch set-ups). You may be forced to get a Centerforce flywheel depending on compatibility....perhaps they sell an aluminum version.
Tony
Tony