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I hate to start a new thread because there are way too many in this forum already, many having to do with non-working horns. However, I have found none that address my problem directly.
My horn doesn't work. I have eliminated every possible reason but the contacts inside the steering column. I know I need to pull the steering wheel to fix the problem but I don't want to do this until I have the parts I need (I want the car to be out of commission as little time as possible. I like to drive it.). So what parts am I likely to need? I have a 1999 convertible without a telescoping steering wheel.
Yes, the horns work pressing the panic button. Everything has been tested that can be tested and everything test out OK. During the testing I did discover that the horn does sometimes work by pressing the horn "buttons" when the top of the steering wheel is at 9 o'clock. The horn membrane tests out OK no matter where I press it. The problem has to be with whatever contacts are transferring juice from the column wiring to the spring load contact on the membrane wiring.
There is plenty of information on how to get into the column and how to remove the steering wheel. I was just hoping that someone knew what parts inside were likely to be bad.
My 98 had the same problem. The horn would work after the car sat in the sun and the interior was hot then the horn would work until, I drove the car and the inside cooled down. The fix I did was after removing the air bag I cleaned the spring contact with contact cleaner and sprayed cleaner on the contact ring. Short bursts of cleaner and turning the wheel to get the whole ring clean. put everything back together the horn works every time. that was 2 years ago.
Bigdad
My 98 had the same problem. The horn would work after the car sat in the sun and the interior was hot then the horn would work until, I drove the car and the inside cooled down. The fix I did was after removing the air bag I cleaned the spring contact with contact cleaner and sprayed cleaner on the contact ring. Short bursts of cleaner and turning the wheel to get the whole ring clean. put everything back together the horn works every time. that was 2 years ago.
Bigdad
THAT is the ticket to your issue!!! Excellent info!
I found after going through all the trouble of removing the bearing spring, replacing all the washers and contact rings that the problem was in the turn signal stalk assembly. Inside that is the spring loaded brass button that contacts the horn ring as it turns. It's hot with 12 volts. Mine at a little short of 100,000 miles was about 1/8" shortened by wear. It made contact at about 60% of the 360 circle, as my turn signal canceller/horn ring was warped by a poor retro fit part from GM. This is the very poor part put in to prevent the column from locking.
Rock auto had a real good match for short dough on the turn signal assembly.
You need a special tool to replace the column bearing spring, but I saw it on the rack at an O'Reilly's soon after I sent away for mine. Do not go crazy tightening your steering wheel main nut. The splines can really get locked on there!
My 98 had the same problem. The horn would work after the car sat in the sun and the interior was hot then the horn would work until, I drove the car and the inside cooled down. The fix I did was after removing the air bag I cleaned the spring contact with contact cleaner and sprayed cleaner on the contact ring. Short bursts of cleaner and turning the wheel to get the whole ring clean. put everything back together the horn works every time. that was 2 years ago.
Bigdad
Thanks for the helpful suggestion. I tried contact cleaner unsuccessfully but I did not turn the wheel like you did. I was hopeful when I tried what you suggested. Unfortunately it did not work for me.
I found after going through all the trouble of removing the bearing spring, replacing all the washers and contact rings that the problem was in the turn signal stalk assembly. Inside that is the spring loaded brass button that contacts the horn ring as it turns. It's hot with 12 volts. Mine at a little short of 100,000 miles was about 1/8" shortened by wear. It made contact at about 60% of the 360 circle, as my turn signal canceller/horn ring was warped by a poor retro fit part from GM. This is the very poor part put in to prevent the column from locking.
Rock auto had a real good match for short dough on the turn signal assembly.
You need a special tool to replace the column bearing spring, but I saw it on the rack at an O'Reilly's soon after I sent away for mine. Do not go crazy tightening your steering wheel main nut. The splines can really get locked on there!
Best,
Bluemill
I have read a lot about column locking. My column doesn't lock at all so it may have the same modifications. I have all the maintenance records from the first owner (I'm the second-and last, by the way) so I'll see if I can find something on this.
Right now I am just going to reassemble the car so I can drive it. I will dive into it again later and pull the wheel. If you have any pictures of the disassembled parts it would helpful. If not I'll try to take some when I tackle the job. Did you replace the nut as some suggest? So far I haven't found one online.
I have read a lot about column locking. My column doesn't lock at all so it may have the same modifications. I have all the maintenance records from the first owner (I'm the second-and last, by the way) so I'll see if I can find something on this.
Right now I am just going to reassemble the car so I can drive it. I will dive into it again later and pull the wheel. If you have any pictures of the disassembled parts it would helpful. If not I'll try to take some when I tackle the job. Did you replace the nut as some suggest? So far I haven't found one online.
My car has 163,000 miles on it, by the way.
With that mileage, I'd go for the turn signal stalk. I can almost guaranty that the contact button is worn to the quick, and not making contact. It's brass, spring loaded, and puts the voltage to the horn ring.
You have to buy the whole assembly, but they are not very expensive. Mine was really gone at 100,000.
I have pictures of some of the parts, and how I modified mine, but I need to get them off the phone, and into this site. You'll need the column spring compressor. Don't try to do it with a locking clamp, I did and now have 2 clamps that I'll never use again, and they could not get it done. This is somewhat dangerous, as the force of that spring is enough to hurt you- seriously, so better to have the tool. I think that tool was $30-40, and well worth it.
Can you post any pictures of what you have under the wheel? Then I could better advise you on what you need. I now you need the retaining circlip, likely the bearing race that centers the spring and bearing, and the steel locking ring. The locking ring for the column lock is what we need to get a look at.
Here are the pictures of some of the horn steering column parts..
I had the picture on my work computer so it should be an easy attachment. On the right is the stock column locking ring, modified. It normally is about .75" in diameter wider, with round half circle notches on the edge. Those notches are the locking- female part of the locking column. A round solid hunk of steel button electronically pops out of the base of the column to engage the notches, effectivel lock your column. This would still work on my car, but GM put the fear of God in me that it could lock while I was driving the car. That got my attention!
I had an auto transmission expert grind the edges off smooth so that I could use this part to back up and reinforce the white nylon piece you see on the left of the picture. That is the turn signal cancel cam, and horn ring, which you can't see, as it's on the other side shown. It has a brass ring on the other side of the white nylon piece, which completes the horn circuit- along with the ground connection.
If you look closely, you can see that the nylon is cracked. That's because the GM retrofit piece didn't properly back up the piece from the force of the column bearing spring that presses against with great force. At the left, on top of the white nylon piece is that BOGUS retrofit piece. Yes, it does cancel the locking mechanism, but it does not back up the hornring/turn signal cam- white nylon piece. My design mod of the GM piece still cancels the lock, but really gives the other pieces below it BACKBONE.
It's way past August but I finally did tear into this. My motivation was additional research that showed I could remove the multi-function switch without removing the steering wheel. After removing the switch, testing and examination indicated that the problem was as Bluemill proposed: The pin contacting the ring on the cancel cam was worn down to the point that it no longer made contact. Here is a picture of the new pin on the right and worn down pin on the left:
The worn pin is about 1/8" long, the new about 1/4".
Thankfully I did not see evidence of the other problems Bluemill had.
I looked at what RockAuto was selling for $144 and it did not look like the right switch. Since their website offered no phone number, email or live chat to ask questions I bought from one of the online GM parts sellers at $204. The genuine GM parts were cheaper than the aftermarket stuff everyone else had. However, when I installed the switch and reconnected the battery it didn't work properly. When the switch was in the off position the parking lights were on and when it was turned to the parking light position the headlights came on! Just to be to certain it was the switch I reinstalled the old one and it still worked fine (except for the horn, of course).
When I contacted the seller they gave me some options for exchanging it but I would have to pay for shipping. This might be reasonable if it failed after installation sometime during the 12 month warranty period but the part was defective out of the box. As it turns out they are located in the Phoenix area and I'm heading to spring training on Monday so I'm going to return it in person.
I am surprised that more people have not had this worn pin problem. Perhaps these switches are usually replaced for some other reason before the pin wears too far.
A final note: Both the top and bottom covers for the steering column had broken screw holes. The top was not held on at all; the bottom had one screw holding it. I looked into buying new but the top is not available. The bottom was about $50. I looked at a used top for $25 on eBay but it had a broken screw hole. I decided to just repair both of them. I used Super Glue to glue the broken pieces back then used some fiberglass cloth and resin to reinforce them.
Glad to hear you are making progress. On the plastic "clam shell" column covers, mine were shot too, so I got newly molded ones from GM Parts Direct.com. They came in gray plastic, which is weird as all C5's had the part in black I thought. No matter, I just spray painted them with flat black enamel- Sherwin Williams, pretty good match, as the semi-gloss was too shiny.
I tried to find my receipt from Rock Auto for the stalk piece but couldn't, which is not typical for me. I just went out to Rock Auto tonight and found the one I got, as I always go with the AC Delco part unless somebody out there says get this one because it's better or at least as good. Matched the picture with mine, AC part # D1512G, $153.79, just $9 more than the cheapest one listed, so worth the AC part fit.
05-01-2016, 08:47 PM
Horn problem in steering column
Excellent info!
