TPE's new TTi-X T4 3" V-band Install!! WhaWha What?!?!
10-13-2011, 10:47 PM
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St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
TPE's new TTi-X T4 3" V-band Install!! WhaWha What?!?!
There has been a select few of you on this forum that have known what we've been doing, but I figured it was time to finally spill the can-o-beans to the rest of the community.
I've been planning this build for quite some time. It was our goal to take a base C6, and completely convert it in every way possible. But the only way to get what we wanted, was to think completely outside the box.
We started with a base TTi-X kit. As everyone knows, the X kit is probably the best kit on the planet for the Corvette.
Knowing that others had tried and failed to make larger manifolds due to cracking issues, we tackled that problem first. We started with Schedule 40, 317 Cast Stainless steel "Buttweld". This means that it is almost as thick as the factory TTi manifold (within .040"). Our manifold measures out at right around .160" thick (which is seriously thick). To give you an idea of the thickness, most people use .080" thick stainless to make their turbo manifolds.
I also used 3/8" stainless header flanges, and 1/2" Stainless turbo flanges. The final component of our T4 manifold, is the bracing itself. Both manifold have additional bracing points against the engine block to compensate for cracking due to vibration. We topped this off by tig welding the entire manifold in a sealed argon gas cabinet. We have not ceramic coated them yet, but they will look perfect once everything is coated and cleaned up. The goal, was a perfect manifold that was interchangeable to the TTi kit, and virtually crack proof.
I ended up with what we hope is the best possible chance at running a TTi-X kit with 100% T4 turbos.
This kit uses PTE6265 Billet turbos, with a T4 .82ar housing and 3" v-band exhaust. It fits almost exactly like our T3 manifold did. BUT!!!! We made the proper modifications to the frame to allow the drop in use of 6765 T4 "Mack Daddy" turbos.
Last, but not least we are running 100% 3" all the way to the tail pipe.
The great thing about this setup, is that anyone. with a current X kit can literally bolt this on, with ZERO modifications to the car.
The powerplant is a Darton Sleeved (By RED) 427" stroker, with all of the goodies. Were shooting for an honest 800-900 on everyday boost, with the ability to push past 1100-1200rwhp with the 6265's. According to Precision, with the 6765's, we should be able to push past the 1300-1400 range. But we are not going for that. I'm sure one of you guys will though.
What do you guys think of the setup? Comments, questions, suggestions?
We have a ton more shots, so let me know if you want to see something specific.
Many thanks goes out to the guys at TTi. If they didnt already have an awesome kit, I could have never pulled this off. Also, my boy Rob at Champion Motorsports. I've burned up more international minutes picking his brain, that I think I have single handedly funded the AT&T and T-mobile merger. That guy has forgotten more about turbocharging, than most on this forum will ever know..
I've been planning this build for quite some time. It was our goal to take a base C6, and completely convert it in every way possible. But the only way to get what we wanted, was to think completely outside the box.
We started with a base TTi-X kit. As everyone knows, the X kit is probably the best kit on the planet for the Corvette.
Knowing that others had tried and failed to make larger manifolds due to cracking issues, we tackled that problem first. We started with Schedule 40, 317 Cast Stainless steel "Buttweld". This means that it is almost as thick as the factory TTi manifold (within .040"). Our manifold measures out at right around .160" thick (which is seriously thick). To give you an idea of the thickness, most people use .080" thick stainless to make their turbo manifolds.
I also used 3/8" stainless header flanges, and 1/2" Stainless turbo flanges. The final component of our T4 manifold, is the bracing itself. Both manifold have additional bracing points against the engine block to compensate for cracking due to vibration. We topped this off by tig welding the entire manifold in a sealed argon gas cabinet. We have not ceramic coated them yet, but they will look perfect once everything is coated and cleaned up. The goal, was a perfect manifold that was interchangeable to the TTi kit, and virtually crack proof.
I ended up with what we hope is the best possible chance at running a TTi-X kit with 100% T4 turbos.
This kit uses PTE6265 Billet turbos, with a T4 .82ar housing and 3" v-band exhaust. It fits almost exactly like our T3 manifold did. BUT!!!! We made the proper modifications to the frame to allow the drop in use of 6765 T4 "Mack Daddy" turbos.
Last, but not least we are running 100% 3" all the way to the tail pipe.
The great thing about this setup, is that anyone. with a current X kit can literally bolt this on, with ZERO modifications to the car.
The powerplant is a Darton Sleeved (By RED) 427" stroker, with all of the goodies. Were shooting for an honest 800-900 on everyday boost, with the ability to push past 1100-1200rwhp with the 6265's. According to Precision, with the 6765's, we should be able to push past the 1300-1400 range. But we are not going for that. I'm sure one of you guys will though.
What do you guys think of the setup? Comments, questions, suggestions?
We have a ton more shots, so let me know if you want to see something specific.
Many thanks goes out to the guys at TTi. If they didnt already have an awesome kit, I could have never pulled this off. Also, my boy Rob at Champion Motorsports. I've burned up more international minutes picking his brain, that I think I have single handedly funded the AT&T and T-mobile merger. That guy has forgotten more about turbocharging, than most on this forum will ever know..
10-13-2011, 11:00 PM
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looks GREAT!!! great job! is that a draton sleeved LS2 block??? looks like it will be a sick build!! cant wait to see it when its all done! GL
Last edited by walhan_qtr; 10-13-2011 at 11:07 PM.
10-13-2011, 11:03 PM
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St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
No, that is just a mock up block, and mock up heads.. The block we chose to have sleeved, is the New Gen IV 5.3 Aluminum block. It is by far the strongest of all LS block to sleeve, due to the overall block design.
The motor is at Kroyer racing engines getting the final machine work completed.
Thank you kindly.. You should see the rest of the car...
The motor is at Kroyer racing engines getting the final machine work completed.
Thank you kindly.. You should see the rest of the car...
Last edited by Jeff @ TPE; 10-13-2011 at 11:06 PM.
10-14-2011, 12:54 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
I am in the market for a TTIX kit with my new turbo motor. Jeff send me message with how much I need to save for this kit with the upgraded 6765 turbos. Thanks!!!! This is exactly what this kit needed for people like me looking to push it with the 6 bolt heads.
10-14-2011, 01:37 AM
#8
As far as wastegate placement and a large (ish) turbine wheel....have you actually tested this combo so far? Does boost hold until redline, or does it spike?
I used to see spike problems on manifolds with poor wastegate priority when a larger turbine was used.
Hopefully you don't have any problems! (because there doesn't look like much room in there to prioritize the wastegate)
for an all out badass look (and sound) how about some dumptube action straight through the hood? (did that on my s2000 and loved it when i would get on the two step flames shot through the hood and put on a nice show)
And I'm not discrediting you guys at all, but was that manifold really welded in a chamber? if it was i don't see any reason for the dark welds (if the proper filler rod was used) or was that just a quick mock up manifold?
another thing...I'd 110% want a blanket on that hot side right near the starter solenoid. i melted my starter solenoid with a simple set of uncoated/unwrapped kooks headers. i can imagine what that cast heat sink will do to the solenoid once it starts glowing from some boost!!
I used to see spike problems on manifolds with poor wastegate priority when a larger turbine was used.
Hopefully you don't have any problems! (because there doesn't look like much room in there to prioritize the wastegate)
for an all out badass look (and sound) how about some dumptube action straight through the hood? (did that on my s2000 and loved it when i would get on the two step flames shot through the hood and put on a nice show
)And I'm not discrediting you guys at all, but was that manifold really welded in a chamber? if it was i don't see any reason for the dark welds (if the proper filler rod was used) or was that just a quick mock up manifold?
another thing...I'd 110% want a blanket on that hot side right near the starter solenoid. i melted my starter solenoid with a simple set of uncoated/unwrapped kooks headers. i can imagine what that cast heat sink will do to the solenoid once it starts glowing from some boost!!
Last edited by m R g S r; 10-14-2011 at 01:45 AM.
10-14-2011, 02:12 AM
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The wastegate location is blended directly inbetween all ports, above the turbo flange. It could not be in a better location.
The discharge routes over the rear tube, and blends into the downward 90* bend, about 2" back of the clamp.
It is the absolute best possible location. We can easily run a 44mm gate if we chose, but due to the way the exhaust is routed, I highly doubt it will be needed. It is far better than all other gate locations currently being used. I'll try to post some pics up .
The discharge routes over the rear tube, and blends into the downward 90* bend, about 2" back of the clamp.
It is the absolute best possible location. We can easily run a 44mm gate if we chose, but due to the way the exhaust is routed, I highly doubt it will be needed. It is far better than all other gate locations currently being used. I'll try to post some pics up .
10-14-2011, 02:24 AM
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Yes, this has already been run many times. The TTI currently runs the same gate, with the same turbine. Our location is much much more open, with less overall restriction.
We can easily change the gate size if needed. As I said on the last post, the gate location is perfect in relation to the exhaust pulse. There will be no creep at all.
Yes, we will be using turbo blankets, as well as the ceramic coating that you can see on the housing.
No worries on discrediting. The manifold in the pic was capped, and filled with argon during the weld process. We didn't get the weld we were hoping for, so we found it necessary to tank weld the production manifold.
We can easily change the gate size if needed. As I said on the last post, the gate location is perfect in relation to the exhaust pulse. There will be no creep at all.
Yes, we will be using turbo blankets, as well as the ceramic coating that you can see on the housing.
No worries on discrediting. The manifold in the pic was capped, and filled with argon during the weld process. We didn't get the weld we were hoping for, so we found it necessary to tank weld the production manifold.
As far as wastegate placement and a large (ish) turbine wheel....have you actually tested this combo so far? Does boost hold until redline, or does it spike?
I used to see spike problems on manifolds with poor wastegate priority when a larger turbine was used.
Hopefully you don't have any problems! (because there doesn't look like much room in there to prioritize the wastegate)
for an all out badass look (and sound) how about some dumptube action straight through the hood? (did that on my s2000 and loved it when i would get on the two step flames shot through the hood and put on a nice show)
And I'm not discrediting you guys at all, but was that manifold really welded in a chamber? if it was i don't see any reason for the dark welds (if the proper filler rod was used) or was that just a quick mock up manifold?
another thing...I'd 110% want a blanket on that hot side right near the starter solenoid. i melted my starter solenoid with a simple set of uncoated/unwrapped kooks headers. i can imagine what that cast heat sink will do to the solenoid once it starts glowing from some boost!!
I used to see spike problems on manifolds with poor wastegate priority when a larger turbine was used.
Hopefully you don't have any problems! (because there doesn't look like much room in there to prioritize the wastegate)
for an all out badass look (and sound) how about some dumptube action straight through the hood? (did that on my s2000 and loved it when i would get on the two step flames shot through the hood and put on a nice show
)And I'm not discrediting you guys at all, but was that manifold really welded in a chamber? if it was i don't see any reason for the dark welds (if the proper filler rod was used) or was that just a quick mock up manifold?
another thing...I'd 110% want a blanket on that hot side right near the starter solenoid. i melted my starter solenoid with a simple set of uncoated/unwrapped kooks headers. i can imagine what that cast heat sink will do to the solenoid once it starts glowing from some boost!!
10-14-2011, 07:18 AM
#11
Safety Car
There are other considerations when going to a T4 application when it comes to the rest of the setup if you think about it. Spool characteristics will be different if just bolted on a current TTi X setup. Now spool on most TTi X cars hits full boost no later than 3800rpm. I would see that going into the 4krpm range. I also see the need to rev higher if you even consider going 6766. Not too mention the drivetrain will need to be cared for. I have no clue on the limits of a built T56 on the street for most of us, but at the track everyone is going to T6060 and ZR1 diff. Remember we dont have the traditional drivetrain and its location gives us weaknesses. Also remember the 6266's with .82 A/R will flow and make the power of an older model 67mm turbo. In the T4 configuration imports have made over 700rwhp with single 6262's and 6265's.
I think on anything from a 346ci to a 416ci going with anything over 6266 is mute, but if you have a 427ci or bigger you have many T4 options. There is a 6366, 6466 and even some 65 to 67mm turbos out there...
I think on anything from a 346ci to a 416ci going with anything over 6266 is mute, but if you have a 427ci or bigger you have many T4 options. There is a 6366, 6466 and even some 65 to 67mm turbos out there...
10-14-2011, 09:03 AM
#12
Safety Car
My biggest concern is fitment on a six bolt block. My 6265s have about a 1/16" clearance between the outlet elbow and one of the six bolt tabs on my block.
10-14-2011, 10:08 AM
#13
Jeff,
I know you aren't exactly new at this - but I just wanted to share with you a concern I have after reviewing your photos (I recently did something very similar and that's why I noticed) - you are going to have to 1) put a turbo blanket on the passenger side turbo, 2) heat wrap the starter also, 3) put some aluminum heat shielding between that turbo and the starter. You will need to do *all three* of these things! HOPEFULLY that will be enough to keep the innards of that starter from melting...
Looks like a great build!!!!
I know you aren't exactly new at this - but I just wanted to share with you a concern I have after reviewing your photos (I recently did something very similar and that's why I noticed) - you are going to have to 1) put a turbo blanket on the passenger side turbo, 2) heat wrap the starter also, 3) put some aluminum heat shielding between that turbo and the starter. You will need to do *all three* of these things! HOPEFULLY that will be enough to keep the innards of that starter from melting...
Looks like a great build!!!!
10-14-2011, 12:01 PM
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Yes, we are doing all of the above. We have the DEI titanium blankets, along with ceramic coated exhaust housing, AND a starter blanket. We are as Lao sleeving all of the wires. We learned this after installing the regular X kit on these cars.
Jeff,
I know you aren't exactly new at this - but I just wanted to share with you a concern I have after reviewing your photos (I recently did something very similar and that's why I noticed) - you are going to have to 1) put a turbo blanket on the passenger side turbo, 2) heat wrap the starter also, 3) put some aluminum heat shielding between that turbo and the starter. You will need to do *all three* of these things! HOPEFULLY that will be enough to keep the innards of that starter from melting...
Looks like a great build!!!!
I know you aren't exactly new at this - but I just wanted to share with you a concern I have after reviewing your photos (I recently did something very similar and that's why I noticed) - you are going to have to 1) put a turbo blanket on the passenger side turbo, 2) heat wrap the starter also, 3) put some aluminum heat shielding between that turbo and the starter. You will need to do *all three* of these things! HOPEFULLY that will be enough to keep the innards of that starter from melting...
Looks like a great build!!!!
10-14-2011, 12:08 PM
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I agree.. IMHO the 6265 is the perfect turbo for this app. The large cube motors should run the .82, and smaller cubes should run the .63
Anything more, and spool time goes to hell.
We are shooting for a street car feel. So spool above 3000-3500 is not acceptable.
The 6765 should only be used for big power, race apps. I don't think it would be good for the street. But some guys said they wouldn't consider the upgrade unless they could run the 6765.
Anything more, and spool time goes to hell.
We are shooting for a street car feel. So spool above 3000-3500 is not acceptable.
The 6765 should only be used for big power, race apps. I don't think it would be good for the street. But some guys said they wouldn't consider the upgrade unless they could run the 6765.
There are other considerations when going to a T4 application when it comes to the rest of the setup if you think about it. Spool characteristics will be different if just bolted on a current TTi X setup. Now spool on most TTi X cars hits full boost no later than 3800rpm. I would see that going into the 4krpm range. I also see the need to rev higher if you even consider going 6766. Not too mention the drivetrain will need to be cared for. I have no clue on the limits of a built T56 on the street for most of us, but at the track everyone is going to T6060 and ZR1 diff. Remember we dont have the traditional drivetrain and its location gives us weaknesses. Also remember the 6266's with .82 A/R will flow and make the power of an older model 67mm turbo. In the T4 configuration imports have made over 700rwhp with single 6262's and 6265's.
I think on anything from a 346ci to a 416ci going with anything over 6266 is mute, but if you have a 427ci or bigger you have many T4 options. There is a 6366, 6466 and even some 65 to 67mm turbos out there...
I think on anything from a 346ci to a 416ci going with anything over 6266 is mute, but if you have a 427ci or bigger you have many T4 options. There is a 6366, 6466 and even some 65 to 67mm turbos out there...
10-14-2011, 12:13 PM
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After you and I spoke, I tested it on our LSX. It fits just fine. There is no fitment issue with the 6 bolt at all. This is because we are the ones who fit the 90* elbow on the 6765. We welded it about 1/4" tighter to the compressor.
The standard 6265 from tti also fits exactly as it does on their manifold.
The standard 6265 from tti also fits exactly as it does on their manifold.
10-14-2011, 12:34 PM
#17
Safety Car
Ah, I didn't think it would end up fitting. It is positioned so damn tight that the coupler for the outlet has to touch the underside of the manifold. I almost wish the outlet had part of that first discharge pipe already welded on!
10-14-2011, 02:19 PM
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What we did, was weld the 90* elbow closer to the compressor. We did this by trimming just a tad more off the compressor outlet before we welded the 90* on. This worked out perfectly, and cured the problem all together. .
10-14-2011, 04:40 PM
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You read my mind..
I was talking to Rob @ champion a few hours ago, and mentioned that we might incorporate that as well.
I didnt do it on this one because I wasnt sure it would work until I saw the T4 flange in place. I wanted to verify the overall clearance.
I cant guarantee that we will, but I will probably try it.
Thank you for the compliment. We dont normally share this kind of info on the forum, so alot of guys dont even know we have the skills to do it. The fact of the matter is, is we do it often. We just keep it to ourselves..
I was talking to Rob @ champion a few hours ago, and mentioned that we might incorporate that as well.
I didnt do it on this one because I wasnt sure it would work until I saw the T4 flange in place. I wanted to verify the overall clearance.
I cant guarantee that we will, but I will probably try it.
Thank you for the compliment. We dont normally share this kind of info on the forum, so alot of guys dont even know we have the skills to do it. The fact of the matter is, is we do it often. We just keep it to ourselves..