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I just installed bilstein sports with spherical delrin topmounts; there are no torque specs for them, and in order to prevent bind you cant go too tight. The front were easy to get to after getting the car settled but the rears (which are making noise and need tightening) are going to be more of a pain to adjust - especially as they wear in.
Making something like a couple of access panels from carbon would be pretty easy and I dont run carpet in the trunk area anyway so thats why Im considering this option if it turns out that I cant just drop the rear mount plates low enough (without removing the shocks from the arms) to tighten the upper shock nuts.
The guy who cut into his trunk for the gas tank went into the frame to get to the crossover pipe - totally different thing as Im just looking at cutting the fiberglass above the rear shock towers.
Yes. When I installed my Pfadt COs many years ago I drilled access holes per their instructions. I recall them being 12/" but may have been bigger. I actively run autox ad HPDE as well as DD so I needed to easily change shock settings. I went right through the carpet and then inserted plastic tubbing through the hole in the carpet and plastic tub that covered the top shaft of the shock and sealed the hole as well as provided a guide-way for the allen-head adjuster wrench. The tube sticks out about 1/4" and is not in the way. Adjustment is faster in the rear than the front.
Yes. When I installed my Pfadt COs many years ago I drilled access holes per their instructions. I recall them being 12/" but may have been bigger. I actively run autox ad HPDE as well as DD so I needed to easily change shock settings. I went right through the carpet and then inserted plastic tubbing through the hole in the carpet and plastic tub that covered the top shaft of the shock and sealed the hole as well as provided a guide-way for the allen-head adjuster wrench. The tube sticks out about 1/4" and is not in the way. Adjustment is faster in the rear than the front.
--Dan
I never drilled the hole for my Pfadt's, not a good enough driver to feel the difference, but when the Pfadts broke and I replaced them with LG's and they have **** that doesn't require drilling a hole in the trunk.
I cut holes for my rollbars. I didn't bother putting a plug in, since I cut the carpet on 3 sides a bit larger than the hole and that created a flap.
I also cut a hole to access the A6 fill plug, but again the carpet covers the hole.
I cut holes for my rollbars. I didn't bother putting a plug in, since I cut the carpet on 3 sides a bit larger than the hole and that created a flap.
I also cut a hole to access the A6 fill plug, but again the carpet covers the hole.
Do you have any issues with fumes coming into the cockpit?
I just installed bilstein sports with spherical delrin topmounts; there are no torque specs for them, and in order to prevent bind you cant go too tight. The front were easy to get to after getting the car settled but the rears (which are making noise and need tightening) are going to be more of a pain to adjust - especially as they wear in.
Making something like a couple of access panels from carbon would be pretty easy and I dont run carpet in the trunk area anyway so thats why Im considering this option if it turns out that I cant just drop the rear mount plates low enough (without removing the shocks from the arms) to tighten the upper shock nuts.
The guy who cut into his trunk for the gas tank went into the frame to get to the crossover pipe - totally different thing as Im just looking at cutting the fiberglass above the rear shock towers.
Thanks for the replies!
Care to share how your delrin spherical top mount is constructed?
My original Pfadt spherical used low Shore rated poly washers to set preload, all suffered an early death from permanent deformation, resulted with play and irritating noise. Black original poly preload washer is shown directly under the top metal retainer.
For a better fix, I sourced 90 Shore rated teflon and made the replacements. Adjusted to zero lash before reinstall and for the last three years - they served well and need no adjustment on my DRM Bilstein Sports.
Care to share how your delrin spherical top mount is constructed?
My original Pfadt spherical used low Shore rated poly washers to set preload, all suffered an early death from permanent deformation, resulted with play and irritating noise. Black original poly preload washer is shown directly under the top metal retainer.
For a better fix, I sourced 90 Shore rated teflon and made the replacements. Adjusted to zero lash before reinstall and for the last three years - they served well and need no adjustment on my DRM Bilstein Sports.
The design is from Gary Hoffman of Hardbar; Banski motorsport manufactures and sells them now.
The mounts come with a rubber/fiber washer which helps with uneven surfaces and supposedly nvh if you run it on the bottom (you can also run it on the top as shown in the picture above). I used a dremel tool to clean up the welding slag from the shock tower mount surfaces and then added a 1/32" gasket on the opposite side of each the frame sections (from the provided rubber washer) to really help even out the load distribution in case there were some surface irregularities on the shock towers that would make the solid mount end up loading up on a smaller contact patch.
The mounts come with a rubber/fiber washer which helps with uneven surfaces and supposedly nvh if you run it on the bottom (you can also run it on the top as shown in the picture above). I used a dremel tool to clean up the welding slag from the shock tower mount surfaces and then added a 1/32" gasket on the opposite side of each the frame sections (from the provided rubber washer) to really help even out the load distribution in case there were some surface irregularities on the shock towers that would make the solid mount end up loading up on a smaller contact patch.
Okay, so what is the contributing factor that caused your shock mount to require adjustment?
On mine, it was due to the rather low Shore rated poly spacers, they were not stout enough to withstand the repeated shock load. Once they were damaged there were all sorts of NVH. On the other hand, proper material used can withstand wear, alleviate NVH at the same time, allow shocks to do all the damping and all without readjustment to take out slack, which was due to wear.
Without wear, then, there is no need to violate and creating permanent openings in the truck area.
Imo, I would rather look for the cause as to the why before invasive surgery.
I too am running Banski Delrin top shock mounts. I tightened the top mount to snug plus 1/4 turn. The issue I ran into at an hpde event is all 4 loosened up. The supplied nylock nuts loosened up, so I retightened them and used medium strength locktite to hold the setting. The result was a 2 day hpde event and they remained tight.
Luckily I was able to just disconnect the upper ball joint then drop the shock plate to make adjustments without having to go any further. I used nordlocks to prevent the nylock nuts from loosening.
Unfortunately the noise was the new delrin spring adjuster on the driver side. Ran out of dry ptfe spray so I had to use WD40 which worked for 5 min before the noise returned. Once I can get the proper stuff on the adjusters and break the car in I can finally get this thing aligned!
looking into it though, its tempting to make a few access panels over the winter: from the image below you could get to suspension, fuel senders, gearbox, and exhaust from the top since the fiber glass covers a lot of the open frame areas...
I too am running Banski Delrin top shock mounts. I tightened the top mount to snug plus 1/4 turn. The issue I ran into at an hpde event is all 4 loosened up. The supplied nylock nuts loosened up, so I retightened them and used medium strength locktite to hold the setting. The result was a 2 day hpde event and they remained tight.
Mike, that is very interesting that you can still make 1/4 turn after snug.
That indicates something in the assembly is yielding. You sure the nylock nuts loosen up or whatever that loosen/yielded was the cause? Did you take the spherical apart to have a look see?
I had similar loosening condition with another brand's spherical as posted. After loosen the assembly, damage to the rather soft poly washers were obvious and I simply used, I believed, superior substitute to provide relative/sufficient rigidity under compression, at the same time it has inherent self lubricity to enable pivoting without binds.
From manufacturing bean counter's stand point, it is more profitable to stamp out poly washers from sized sheet stock to satisfied their design, plus that guarantees a return customer for parts replacement!
In an ideal assembly, after zero lash is established to provide just the needed "room", to allow spherical to pivot and do its job, the only thing that gives, should be limiting to the shock's compression/damping doing its thing.
Maybe I've got it all wrong and my problem is till waiting to happen?
Mike, that is very interesting that you can still make 1/4 turn after snug.
That indicates something in the assembly is yielding. You sure the nylock nuts loosen up or whatever that loosen/yielded was the cause? Did you take the spherical apart to have a look see?
I had similar loosening condition with another brand's spherical as posted. After loosen the assembly, damage to the rather soft poly washers were obvious and I simply used, I believed, superior substitute to provide relative/sufficient rigidity under compression, at the same time it has inherent self lubricity to enable pivoting without binds.
From manufacturing bean counter's stand point, it is more profitable to stamp out poly washers from sized sheet stock to satisfied their design, plus that guarantees a return customer for parts replacement!
In an ideal assembly, after zero lash is established to provide just the needed "room", to allow spherical to pivot and do its job, the only thing that gives, should be limiting to the shock's compression/damping doing its thing.
Maybe I've got it all wrong and my problem is till waiting to happen?
"That indicates something in the assembly is yielding. You sure the nylock nuts loosen up or whatever that loosen/yielded was the cause? Did you take the spherical apart to have a look see?"
Hey Victor! Aloha.
The nylocks loosened, no question about it. I wasn't sure if they loosened if I had the car up on jack stands when I installed the shocks Instead of having the suspension in compression, ie, wheels on the floor, as it had been some time from the installation. If I made that mistake I think it would have been obvious from the very beginning. I put a few miles on it before my track event and I noticed them loosening towards the end. I could tell too by specific corner as I went over bumps. It turned out there doesn't have to be a lot of nylock travel to start making noise.
I called Tom at Banski and used his recommendation, so far so good.
I backed off the nylock far enough to get to the threads, applied medium strength locktite, brought the nylock nut down to just where there was contact with the upper washer and zero play with the delrin bushing, then added 1/4 turn. It made it pretty snug but so far there hasn't been any issues. As someone mentioned previously, there are fiber/rubber washers used presumably to take compression forces from being tightened by the nylock. It is certainly no where near the torque specs for those upper nuts.
Mike, yea, certainly it is better to torque the upper shock nut with suspension in compression. Torque spec for the upper shock nuts is merely 19 ft/lbs...so it doesn't take much to tighten/loosen. I made that mistake way back when and now, I try to dot the i's and cross the t's, but sometimes, well..... With the suspension not in compression, loosen sound sometimes will take a little time to surface...In my case, the rather low Shore rated poly washers, not spongy soft by any means, although were preloaded to spec, took a while to develop deformation and creaks...... just a thought....how firm were your fiber/rubber washers used in your spherical?
I don't personally like to use nylock nuts, once nylon in nylock is deformed, its effectiveness is diminished...I much prefer reuse oem deformed lock nuts in a pinch, just need to make sure nut is in good shape and mating threads not damaged, verified after disengaged, from the deformed nut...as shown in my pics...Nord-Lock certainly is the best choice for positive locking.
Mike, if you want to give higher Shore rated teflon a try, let me know the dimensions...I will be glad to make you a set...free. When you do decide, send me a pm and we can take it from there!
11-17-2015, 01:58 PM
Cut rear hatch to have adjustment access to rear shocks
