Halltech

2006 Torque Management Limits


2007 Torque Management Limits



I'm not sure how this works out on the dyno or street, but there should be no more broken CV joints. These are both bone stock files read by LS2Edit.

Jim

vettemaster1

wow....they really made some changes there...

mickvk

Can anybody interpret the values or differences?

Foosh

Without knowing what the actual values mean, it would appear obvious that there are lower values programmed before the torque mgmt. system cuts fuel and spark. That's what Jim meant by no more broken axles. It seems that "nanny has gotten stricter."

dgdoc

It will be interesting to see what effect the more aggressive TM has on E.T.

Since TM has been cited as a limiting factor on the 2006, it would seem that it would be even more limiting on the 2007.

One question is how there can actually be 3 different torque limits - Axle, Driveshaft, and transmission. Also, on a Corvette, the torque limit output of the driveshaft (72609) would be the input torque seen by the transmission (limited to 2791) -- and the numbers just don't make a lot of sense in this case.

My guess is the TM system is a universal system for all GM cars, but is only looking at only one set of these number on the Corvette. The other values are probably "placeholders" and are not used in the actual torque limit computation.

SBTuner

Hi Jim, what do the "Torque by RPM" tables look like?

Regards,

Halltech

Newton meters.

Jim Shearer

Jim,

How do the "Torque by RPM" tables in 1st, 2nd and 3rd compare?

urslooow

Can someone explain when the TM programming kicks in? Any programmers want to comment? Jim Hall? Breathless? LPE?

Albino

Interesting.

I feel somewhat vindicated now about when I commented a month or so ago about my '07 not feeling very "snappy" around town. Fortunately my tuner helped me out.

vette6799

I wonder what will happen when we take our cars to the dealers for service. Will they upgrade our firmware and make the car more lame?

kelp

Thanks Jim. Some of those 06 TM stats are the default maximum and I couldn't increase it, or by much. The numbers are so large, in N/M or Ft/Lb I wonder if I am correct anyway. I found the real limitations are TM limits in the gears 1-6. That's where the limitations are most controlling and where I increased them. I wonder if those changed in 07 also. Probably, since the basic shaft parameters were lowered. It is much more pleasant and drivable without TM limitations. I got the impression you did the same thing in your tuning programs, among many other things, but I may be mistaken.

Halltech

No change. I doubt that any of these parameters result in lost power but rather some additional safeguards when the drivetrain is pounded through the gears.

Halltech

First of all, let me assure you that the car is still making full power. Second of all, the dealers cannot, and will not ever simply reprogram your car. They cannot do this without a service bulletin which addresses a specific problem you identify to them, which the SB will likely fix.

Additionally, there has been only one recalibration for the 2006 Z06s since January, and every single ECM I have tuned since the beginning of the year is identical to my calibration. Not one change.

The TIS2000 programming tool used by all dealers is identical to what I have and there are no changes to the 2006 that anyone could program or flash to your car, even if they wanted to. There are no other changes to the 2007 calibration that could affect power that I have seen.

My intention here was not to open a can of worms, but rather honestly show some drivetrain torque management changes that affect shifting and launching, not power.

There are many different areas of what is termed torque management. My programming, for instance recalibrates the extreme measures used to pull power made by the engine. Delivery to the rear wheels, must still be transferred safely to avoid drivetrain damage.

Jim

Second

The transmission sees torque from the engine only. The driveshaft should see torque from the engine multiplied by the transmission gear. The axle should see driveshaft torque multiplied by your axle gear. So it makes sense to me the transmission limit < driveshaft limit < axle limit.

Problem is I don't see that pattern above. It seems they have the driveshaft torque limit being the highest which to me would make the axle TM value moot. Perhaps they do that on purpose b/c the breakage is happening somewhere before the axle torque sensor?

Racer X

I am not aware that there is a torque sensor. I always understood that the torque values are calculated from the RPM and fuel flow or Mass air flow values. As such they would not be accurate if one changed any internals (cam, crank, pistons, etc) as this would change the torque curve shape.

glass slipper

The pattern seemed strange to me also. The only question I have is do they indeed have an axle torque sensor? I haven't heard of one on cars (doesn't mean they don't exist), but we do have shaft torque sensors on US Navy ships to provide input to the gas turbine engine computers to limit shaft torque to around 1,300,000 LB FT. (Yes, that is 1.3 million. ) The controllable pitch propellers can provide enough pitch if not calibrated correctly to overload the shaft before we get the full 41,000 HP per shaft to the water.

Verrückt

Nope, no torque sensors. It's all done by ECU values...and it's surprisingly accurate when using a stock tune.

Second

Then theoretically one could mod the car enough that removing the torque mgmt would be unecessary. That is b/c the traction would give way and you'd need to let off the gas before the torque mgmt would kick in. Interesting. Of courese that assumes the car will spin the tires.

Ranger

Unless an owner is attempting timed acceleration runs at the drag strip, s/he can pretty much ignore Torque Management.

On a very well driven 1320' with excellent traction, TM will reduce the ET .25-.30. I write that based on studying my 36 passes. That said, there is a wide spectrum of driver skill behind the wheel of C6Z06s. At the drags last Sunday, four C6Zs were making passes. The ET spread was .80-1.0 seconds between the best passes of the drivers.

Finally, the sensors inputs and algorithms that govern TM are complicated enough that they're not easy to circumvent; I've been working to develop techniques through careful experiments and I'm not through yet.

Ranger