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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
LG C7 Cooling System "EFFICIENT SIMPLICITY"
Hi Guys.
I guess the question is how complex does the system need to be.
I for one would never add 7 coolers to the front of the C7 to accomplish what we did with 4. (but actually zero added coolers)
The 4 Coolers include the Engine Radiator, Two Supercharger Coolers, one under each headlight. And a single oil cooler in place of the GM Transmission cooler.
That is 4 coolers that accomplish the entire task efficiently with a clean installation. In Fact, we only added 2 additional coolers for the Supercharger but we removed the GM inefficient designed intercooler.
Removing the Stock Intercooler and splitting it is really not adding any coolers so by splitting it, we really did not add any extra weight to the front, we just "Spread" it.
Also, we just "Reassigned" the task of the transmission cooler and split the the task of the OEM cooler and moved it to the side which eliminated the excessive heat entering the engine radiator.
The engine radiator can not cool with 220 degree air flowing through it from the intercooler. That would be like trying to cool the engine in 220 degree ambient temp.
WE addressed the Transmission cooling by putting a second trans cooler (LG Trans Cooler) in the Right Rear to eliminate the Transmission from the over heating equation. AND we have a new A8 Transmission oil pan adding just under 1 gal more trans fluid!
That is not to say that a Hatchet solution won't work but I prefer the scalpel method with "Efficient Simplicity" to achieve the same or better results. (Not To Mention that the extra front weight with 7 coolers in place is exactly the opposite of what the Corvette C7 Needs.
We took our time and created the solution that achieves the BEST results.
Eventually even GM will copy our system because it does the job best with the least amount of complexity. (And so will everyone else.)
I would never add 7 coolers and the associated weight to the front of any car let alone a C7.
We thought GM was wrong when they put a second Transmission cooler in front, so we eliminated the GM Trans Cooler and replaced it with our own in the Right Rear Fender.
That allowed us to use that Front cooler location for our Oil Cooler so we really only added 2 additional coolers in place of 1 larger intercooler that the GM Factory had.
My Mistake was letting some people and aftermarket Boutique Car builders, see my system before we were finished. The proof is in the test results at 103 degree ambient Texas temps at the test track.
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery but in this business, I could use with LESS FLATTERY
ALL TESTING DONE AT 103 DEGREE TEXAS HEAT!
Water Temp: 223 degrees only spiked to 225 when we sat in the pits.
We used a single LG Super Cool Radiator with a racing fan in place. **There are other systems out there that have to ADD a second Engine Radiator to get the temps down to what we did with our Single "LG Super Cool Radiator".
Oil Temp: 270 Degrees max and achieved it with a single typical oil cooler in the front replacing the GM Transmission cooler.
Supercharger temps never exceeded any level that would cause a shut down or lose power.
We do not see any cavitation due to the design of our Dual Coolers.
We have oil cooler and trans cooler systems ready to go now.
We have our Dual Super Cooler systems in stock too.
We have the first batch of Carbon Inlet opening parts coming in Tuesday.
Give us a call and we can start shipping to anyone who needs to get their C7 to run cool enough for track days. Call and talk to Anthony and he can start shipping immediately.
Thanks guys
Lou Gigliotti
LG Motorsports
972-429-1963
Notice that the OEM Intercooler is now just split with an efficient design and better intercoolers, redirecting the 220 degree hot air away from the Radiator
AND the OEM Trans cooler location is now used for our LG Oil cooler that gets the job done!
Last edited by LG Motorsports; 09-04-2016 at 12:40 PM.
As someone who did actually designed (obviously, in a team) powertrain cooling system, I'm fairly surprised it is as big of a cluster as it is. They don't just grab a radiator out of storage and throw it on a car. There is a LOT that goes into developing powertrain cooling systems. Just the simulations (and I did it a decade ago) should have come back with a giant red "holy crap, God no, please stop!"
Heck, just looking at with 10 years of engineering rust on me, I could tell you that a grill area that small (and losing a lot of it to brake ducts) is going to be one heck of a challenge on a car with hi-pro need and the equivalent of ~750 NA HP (it makes a lot more than 650hp "at the piston" because it uses a lot to turn the blower). Obviously, LG saw that problem and added more surface area for the inlets. This was probably the biggest contributor.
Are the Z51 and Z06 heat exchanges the same? Maybe they did it for cost reasons, but even then- making a ton of different units is almost never cheaper- especially when you consider warranty (more parts to fail, more seals, etc), assembly time (at factory), connecting components (tubes, hoses, clamps) and less efficiency (bigger pressure drop because more hoses and crap to go through meaning more pumping losses, lower MPG, less cooling, etc etc)
Last edited by village idiot; 09-04-2016 at 05:10 PM.
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by village idiot
As someone who did actually designed (obviously, in a team) powertrain cooling system, I'm fairly surprised it is as big of a cluster as it is. They don't just grab a radiator out of storage and throw it on a car. There is a LOT that goes into developing powertrain cooling systems. Just the simulations (and I did it a decade ago) should have come back with a giant red "holy crap, God no, please stop!"
Heck, just looking at with 10 years of engineering rust on me, I could tell you that a grill area that small (and losing a lot of it to brake ducts) is going to be one heck of a challenge on a car with hi-pro need and the equivalent of ~750 NA HP (it makes a lot more than 650hp "at the piston" because it uses a lot to turn the blower). Obviously, LG saw that problem and added more surface area for the inlets. This was probably the biggest contributor.
Are the Z51 and Z06 heat exchanges the same? Maybe they did it for cost reasons, but even then- making a ton of different units is almost never cheaper- especially when you consider warranty (more parts to fail, more seals, etc), assembly time (at factory), connecting components (tubes, hoses, clamps) and less efficiency (bigger pressure drop because more hoses and crap to go through meaning more pumping losses, lower MPG, less cooling, etc etc)
It actually was not much of a cluster considering that we solved it in about 2-3 steps.
The temp coming out of the Intercoolers was around 220 degrees and it was supplying the heated air that was supposed to cool the engine water radiator.
Well that was like trying to cool a car in 220 degree ambient. SO removing the intercoolers from the front center to the outside to allowing the hot aire to be ducted out of the car without going through the engine radiator.
That alone helped but there were more issues with the stock radiator that had to be addressed. Namely the restrictions behind the radiator at the plastic shroud and fan, all were blocking the air exit.
In addition, the oil cooler was not sufficient so we added a front oil cooler and dropped the temps to around 270.
All this is easy after the fact. It always is. (Waiting for GM to call)
Once we had our split intercoolers the rest followed.
Here is a list:
Solve the air exit behind the water radiator
Augment that with a true Extractor louvered hood to maximize air flow through the radiator.
Solve the intercoolers hot air path on exit (air flow into the wheel well)
Solve the Transmission issue and move a second Trans cooler to the rear of the car.
Solve the high Oil Temp with external traditional oil cooler.
Yeah, not trying to break the rules of thermodynamics helps That still comes back, in a round about way, to having more surface area. Everyone had to share the little grill frontal area.
I was wondering if the fans were blocking too much air, too. GM loves their AC idle tests. I'm surprised the shroud blocked that much air. They're usually cautious about that.
Good work. If you ever need someone to tell you how easy something is after you solve the problem, give me a shout. I'm just a 15 min drive away.
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by village idiot
Yeah, not trying to break the rules of thermodynamics helps That still comes back, in a round about way, to having more surface area. Everyone had to share the little grill frontal area.
I was wondering if the fans were blocking too much air, too. GM loves their AC idle tests. I'm surprised the shroud blocked that much air. They're usually cautious about that.
Good work. If you ever need someone to tell you how easy something is after you solve the problem, give me a shout. I'm just a 15 min drive away.
You hit that nail on the head, "GM Loves their AC Idle tests"!
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by vettenutchas
What hood is in the front end pic?
that is our new LG Motorsports Extractor Hood. double the louver opening and enhanced leading edge shape to help pull radiator air and under hood air out.
More cooling, More Front grip with added Down force and MORE STARES from people looking at the car.
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Going through all of my pictures and info and thought you guys would like to see this.
During the design phase, we had the entire nose scanned for the development of the front fascia trim panels to make sure everything fit in place with the OEM nose.
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
AND...we had to do that because GM has black balled LG Motorsports and will not give us the same Data that any SEMA member gets. So we have to spend more money to bring the best products to the Corvette Community.
No worries, We are happy to do what GM would not do.
lol, those jerks won't give you the CAD data? That's 1000x easier to work off of, too.
Anyway, the car looks better- at least for a Z06. I could see why stingray owners might not want a look that aggressive.
Although, I think I'd want the silver to be black so it looks finished.
Last edited by village idiot; 09-16-2016 at 11:50 PM.
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by village idiot
lol, those jerks won't give you the CAD data? That's 1000x easier to work off of, too.
Anyway, the car looks better- at least for a Z06. I could see why stingray owners might not want a look that aggressive.
Although, I think I'd want the silver to be black so it looks finished.
I agree that the screens might look better in black. We can do them either way.
We are going to add about 100 hp to the car and go test it at COTA in 2 weeks to see how it works with more hp.
If any of you are in the Austin area Sunday October 2nd, stop by and say hello.
Apologies if this is not the right place, but could these Iearnings be applied to a centi blower setup? I know they use an air to air setup, but still have a lot to jam into a small space.
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by Bucknut2006
Apologies if this is not the right place, but could these Iearnings be applied to a centi blower setup? I know they use an air to air setup, but still have a lot to jam into a small space.
Yes we could adapt air to air intercoolers in the two fron locations. Let me know what system and we will do some research
09-04-2016, 12:38 PM
LG C7 Cooling System "EFFICIENT SIMPLICITY"
