OK...enough with the ball busting
03-25-2015, 10:38 PM
#1
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OK...enough with the ball busting
i keep hearing this Heat soak BS .. ok its an issue i get it .. its a great car its not a tough fix for track guy.. stop bitching ! my Cup car got heat soaked all the time running nose to tail with other GT3's we dealt with it.
We keep comparing the GT3 to the Z06???? guess what I bought my Z06 and had enough for a New M3 and or Audi s5 for the wife left over..
I am not nocking a GT3 for christ sake I've owned 11 of them! But this is a good car, a lot of bang for the buck ! i was out of driving for a year plus health issue,I hopped in this car and by the second day I was eating Gt3 and 996 Cups at VIR this was a PCA event. When I get back to speed throw the slicks on like they had do a alignment and height drop CYA!They all had the above done mine was show room delivery to track..
ok Let throw the big one out, I had a 991 GT3, drove it 4 k miles loved it! guess what Porsche set me a seise and desist driving notification! they took 4 months to get my car sat in drive way had dealer replace my motor my car was 1 year model old by then with an un matching motor.. so I bet I can get over a external oil cooler....
PS porsche did buy the car back at sticker with tax tags clear bra etc price I was made whole. I'm not complaining I'm just saying you all a comparing but not taking into account all of the variables .. these are good cars just have a bump in rd to deal with to fix! they are awesome on the track BTW
We keep comparing the GT3 to the Z06???? guess what I bought my Z06 and had enough for a New M3 and or Audi s5 for the wife left over..
I am not nocking a GT3 for christ sake I've owned 11 of them! But this is a good car, a lot of bang for the buck ! i was out of driving for a year plus health issue,I hopped in this car and by the second day I was eating Gt3 and 996 Cups at VIR this was a PCA event. When I get back to speed throw the slicks on like they had do a alignment and height drop CYA!They all had the above done mine was show room delivery to track..
ok Let throw the big one out, I had a 991 GT3, drove it 4 k miles loved it! guess what Porsche set me a seise and desist driving notification! they took 4 months to get my car sat in drive way had dealer replace my motor my car was 1 year model old by then with an un matching motor.. so I bet I can get over a external oil cooler....
PS porsche did buy the car back at sticker with tax tags clear bra etc price I was made whole. I'm not complaining I'm just saying you all a comparing but not taking into account all of the variables .. these are good cars just have a bump in rd to deal with to fix! they are awesome on the track BTW
03-25-2015, 11:03 PM
#3
i keep hearing this Heat soak BS .. ok its an issue i get it .. its a great car its not a tough fix for track guy.. stop bitching ! my Cup car got heat soaked all the time running nose to tail with other GT3's we dealt with it.
We keep comparing the GT3 to the Z06???? guess what I bought my Z06 and had enough for a New M3 and or Audi s5 for the wife left over..
I am not nocking a GT3 for christ sake I've owned 11 of them! But this is a good car, a lot of bang for the buck ! i was out of driving for a year plus health issue,I hopped in this car and by the second day I was eating Gt3 and 996 Cups at VIR this was a PCA event. When I get back to speed throw the slicks on like they had do a alignment and height drop CYA!They all had the above done mine was show room delivery to track..
ok Let throw the big one out, I had a 991 GT3, drove it 4 k miles loved it! guess what Porsche set me a seise and desist driving notification! they took 4 months to get my car sat in drive way had dealer replace my motor my car was 1 year model old by then with an un matching motor.. so I bet I can get over a external oil cooler....
PS porsche did buy the car back at sticker with tax tags clear bra etc price I was made whole. I'm not complaining I'm just saying you all a comparing but not taking into account all of the variables .. these are good cars just have a bump in rd to deal with to fix! they are awesome on the track BTW
We keep comparing the GT3 to the Z06???? guess what I bought my Z06 and had enough for a New M3 and or Audi s5 for the wife left over..
I am not nocking a GT3 for christ sake I've owned 11 of them! But this is a good car, a lot of bang for the buck ! i was out of driving for a year plus health issue,I hopped in this car and by the second day I was eating Gt3 and 996 Cups at VIR this was a PCA event. When I get back to speed throw the slicks on like they had do a alignment and height drop CYA!They all had the above done mine was show room delivery to track..
ok Let throw the big one out, I had a 991 GT3, drove it 4 k miles loved it! guess what Porsche set me a seise and desist driving notification! they took 4 months to get my car sat in drive way had dealer replace my motor my car was 1 year model old by then with an un matching motor.. so I bet I can get over a external oil cooler....
PS porsche did buy the car back at sticker with tax tags clear bra etc price I was made whole. I'm not complaining I'm just saying you all a comparing but not taking into account all of the variables .. these are good cars just have a bump in rd to deal with to fix! they are awesome on the track BTW
It's easy to read too deeply into what people say on the forums for a couple of reasons. Your average person on the forum is typically very different from the average owner.
- They may be here because they are excited and waiting for the car (me)
- They may be into comparing every minute difference of the car with other cars because they absolutely love cars (what my image of everyone on here is
- They may be an owner of a competing car that is looking to defend their car or bash the competitor (like some weird kind of car politician),
- They may really want one and not be able to afford it so they want to convince themselves that it's not a grear car
- They may be jealous of a friend or have an antagonist that has the car
- They may have a lemon (happens to any car) and need to vent
The bottom line is that there are a lot of reasons why people are talking about the heat soak thing but 99% of owners will never be impacted by the issue.
If you are really taking the car to the track you can get a high performance radiator or a different supercharger for a very small fraction of the 100k sticker. You will throw away the cost of the new equipment in tires in a few trips to the track anyways so to those people it's not really a big deal anyways.
On the street I doubt I will ever encounter (or notice) the issue because you would get arrested if you were driving like an insane person.
So neither person should really care anyways.
Last edited by ImpatientlyWaiting; 03-25-2015 at 11:05 PM.
03-25-2015, 11:33 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
930man I understand what your saying but in the end if YOU are happy with the car that's the only thing it should matter.
03-26-2015, 09:09 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
930man, you are completely right of course and I agree that adding an aftermarket radiator and/or engine oil cooler is something that owners wanting to extract all of the performance from the car, will have no issue doing; once products are released of course.
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
03-26-2015, 12:18 PM
#6
Former Vendor
930man, you are completely right of course and I agree that adding an aftermarket radiator and/or engine oil cooler is something that owners wanting to extract all of the performance from the car, will have no issue doing; once products are released of course.
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
Well said
Thanks,
Carlos
03-26-2015, 12:52 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '15
930man, you are completely right of course and I agree that adding an aftermarket radiator and/or engine oil cooler is something that owners wanting to extract all of the performance from the car, will have no issue doing; once products are released of course.
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
My frustration is that GM knew that this would occur, (it is impossible for them not to have, given the nature of their test drivers and the venues they tested the cars in), and yet the Z07 package was released without adequate cooling it seems. That is total nonsense, and owners like me would have willingly paid an additional couple of grand more for the package to ensure adequate cooling for HPDE events in hot months.
If subsequent model years are released with increased cooling capacity, TJ and the whole Corvette team must make these upgrades available at reasonable cost to 2015 owners. We placed our faith in them to deliver a track capable car; they must now return that good faith to us.
Bish
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
03-26-2015, 01:20 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Right now this is shear speculation as Lawdogg has demonstrated more than once with his car at Road Atlanta. He gets his best runs in about 2/3 to 3/4 through a lapping sequence....so until there is actual data to support there is a deep problem it would be nice to not pile on. I believe in data as an engineer, not people's opinions, because just like an ***, everyone has one.
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
03-26-2015, 02:34 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
With all due respect, and I am not trying to bash this car or anyone else, there are a few key points to remember:
The C5Z was the cat's meow when it came out but it was light on brakes and cooling;
The C6Z had better brakes, plus a dry sump and extra coolers. But, the brakes still were weird (padlets), many replaced them, and the cooling was still a bit suspect.
So, now we get the C7Z. We figure (I know I did) that Chevy's incremental improvement and higher price would net us a Z with great brakes and great cooling.
Now, the brakes seem great; cooling, still bad. And what annoys me is this car has a radiator, dry sump, oil cooler, trans cooler and diff cooler; plus a ton of gauges to monitor it all. Why add all of these items if they won't keep temps down on track for a banzai 30 minutes in summer heat? Is it just marketing?
I am familiar with LawDogg's great results and that is encouraging; but it is not summer yet. There are a number of contradictory posts. That said, I doubt I will ever run as fast as LawDogg does, so maybe it won't matter. But in Georgia in the summer, it will be over 100 degrees at Road Atlanta or Roebling. Just sayin'.
Since this car has a warranty, I do not want to mess with it--I want it stock and cool!
Finally, this is not as simple as "just add a dual core radiator/oil cooler". No retrofits are yet available, and if you believe Tadge, it may well not be that simple.
So, school is still out. That said, it is a monster of a car and I am glad Chevy makes it. But, I just want that little bit more for my 100K!
The C5Z was the cat's meow when it came out but it was light on brakes and cooling;
The C6Z had better brakes, plus a dry sump and extra coolers. But, the brakes still were weird (padlets), many replaced them, and the cooling was still a bit suspect.
So, now we get the C7Z. We figure (I know I did) that Chevy's incremental improvement and higher price would net us a Z with great brakes and great cooling.
Now, the brakes seem great; cooling, still bad. And what annoys me is this car has a radiator, dry sump, oil cooler, trans cooler and diff cooler; plus a ton of gauges to monitor it all. Why add all of these items if they won't keep temps down on track for a banzai 30 minutes in summer heat? Is it just marketing?
I am familiar with LawDogg's great results and that is encouraging; but it is not summer yet. There are a number of contradictory posts. That said, I doubt I will ever run as fast as LawDogg does, so maybe it won't matter. But in Georgia in the summer, it will be over 100 degrees at Road Atlanta or Roebling. Just sayin'.
Since this car has a warranty, I do not want to mess with it--I want it stock and cool!
Finally, this is not as simple as "just add a dual core radiator/oil cooler". No retrofits are yet available, and if you believe Tadge, it may well not be that simple.
So, school is still out. That said, it is a monster of a car and I am glad Chevy makes it. But, I just want that little bit more for my 100K!
Last edited by quick04Z06; 03-26-2015 at 02:38 PM.
03-26-2015, 02:40 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
With all due respect, and I am not trying to bash this car or anyone else, there are a few key points to remember:
The C5Z was the cat's meow when it came out but it was light on brakes and cooling;
The C6Z had better brakes, plus a dry sump and extra coolers. But, the brakes still were weird (padlets), many replaced them, and the cooling was still a bit suspect.
So, now we get the C7Z. We figure (I know I did) that Chevy's incremental improvement and higher price would net us a Z with great brakes and great cooling.
Now, the brakes seem great; cooling, still bad. And what annoys me is this car has a radiator, dry sump, oil cooler, trans cooler and diff cooler; plus a ton of gauges to monitor it all. Why add all of these items if they won't keep temps down on track for a banzai 30 minutes in summer heat? Is it just marketing?
I am familiar with LawDogg's great results and that is encouraging; but it is not summer yet. There are a number of contradictory posts. That said, I doubt I will ever run as fast as LawDogg does, so maybe it won't matter. But in Georgia in the summer, it will be over 100 degrees at Road Atlanta or Roebling. Just sayin'.
Since this car has a warranty, I do not want to mess with it--I want it stock and cool!
Finally, this is not as simple as "just add a dual core radiator/oil cooler". No retrofits are yet available, and if you believe Tadge, it may well not be that simple.
So, school is still out. That said, it is a monster of a car and I am glad Chevy makes it. But, I just want that little bit more for my 100K!
The C5Z was the cat's meow when it came out but it was light on brakes and cooling;
The C6Z had better brakes, plus a dry sump and extra coolers. But, the brakes still were weird (padlets), many replaced them, and the cooling was still a bit suspect.
So, now we get the C7Z. We figure (I know I did) that Chevy's incremental improvement and higher price would net us a Z with great brakes and great cooling.
Now, the brakes seem great; cooling, still bad. And what annoys me is this car has a radiator, dry sump, oil cooler, trans cooler and diff cooler; plus a ton of gauges to monitor it all. Why add all of these items if they won't keep temps down on track for a banzai 30 minutes in summer heat? Is it just marketing?
I am familiar with LawDogg's great results and that is encouraging; but it is not summer yet. There are a number of contradictory posts. That said, I doubt I will ever run as fast as LawDogg does, so maybe it won't matter. But in Georgia in the summer, it will be over 100 degrees at Road Atlanta or Roebling. Just sayin'.
Since this car has a warranty, I do not want to mess with it--I want it stock and cool!
Finally, this is not as simple as "just add a dual core radiator/oil cooler". No retrofits are yet available, and if you believe Tadge, it may well not be that simple.
So, school is still out. That said, it is a monster of a car and I am glad Chevy makes it. But, I just want that little bit more for my 100K!
Well said!
03-26-2015, 02:43 PM
#11
Safety Car
Right now this is shear speculation as Lawdogg has demonstrated more than once with his car at Road Atlanta. He gets his best runs in about 2/3 to 3/4 through a lapping sequence....so until there is actual data to support there is a deep problem it would be nice to not pile on. I believe in data as an engineer, not people's opinions, because just like an ***, everyone has one.
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
Good one........
03-26-2015, 02:48 PM
#13
The thing is, most people do not track their Z06 but the cost Chevy incurs on warranty gets spread over everybody. Track use wears the parts down significantly faster than street use and 100% of owners end up incurring the costs of the 5-10% that use it at the track. If you want to spend 30 laps at the track, I think requiring that you void your warranty to do it is fair for the rest of us to be honest.
http://www.dewitts.com/products/1139114m
03-26-2015, 02:53 PM
#14
Right now this is shear speculation as Lawdogg has demonstrated more than once with his car at Road Atlanta. He gets his best runs in about 2/3 to 3/4 through a lapping sequence....so until there is actual data to support there is a deep problem it would be nice to not pile on. I believe in data as an engineer, not people's opinions, because just like an ***, everyone has one.
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
In God we trust, everyone else come with data!
03-26-2015, 03:00 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
I actually like that you need to void your warranty for serious track driving. The best lap times by MT were not on the first lap and neither were Lawdog's so somebody can still have a few hotlaps and only lose a tenth of a second (which is still fast enough to lay down 1:25 at Willow btw) but somebody who wants to do 30 laps will probably go ahead and void their warranty to install some cooling parts or one of the other superchargers some of these companies have already installed.
The thing is, most people do not track their Z06 but the cost Chevy incurs on warranty gets spread over everybody. Track use wears the parts down significantly faster than street use and 100% of owners end up incurring the costs of the 5-10% that use it at the track. If you want to spend 30 laps at the track, I think requiring that you void your warranty to do it is fair for the rest of us to be honest.
People have already bolted on different superchargers and there are already performance radiators for the C7.
http://www.dewitts.com/products/1139114m
The thing is, most people do not track their Z06 but the cost Chevy incurs on warranty gets spread over everybody. Track use wears the parts down significantly faster than street use and 100% of owners end up incurring the costs of the 5-10% that use it at the track. If you want to spend 30 laps at the track, I think requiring that you void your warranty to do it is fair for the rest of us to be honest.
People have already bolted on different superchargers and there are already performance radiators for the C7.
http://www.dewitts.com/products/1139114m
You like that the warranty gets voided? With all due respect, building a 195 mph car with slick tires, CCBs, aero tuned for 150 mph, a perf data recorder, dry sump, etc., that was not intended for the track--with a warranty--is like building an F-15 for crop dusting.
I look forward to a report on the DeWitt radiator as a track device in actual use on a Z06 (I understand the Z51 and Z06 radiators are the same size, but I am sure the cooling requirements are different). Too bad it does not have the integral oil cooler upgrade like the RD radiators do.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 03-26-2015 at 03:11 PM.
03-26-2015, 03:03 PM
#16
You like that the warranty gets voided? With all due respect, building a 195 mph car with slick tires, CCBs, aero tuned for 150 mph, a perf data recorder, dry sump, etc., that was not intended for the track--with a warranty--is like building an F-15 for crop dusting.
I look forward to a report on the DeWitt radiator as a track device (did not know it was out yet for the Z06). Too bad it does not have the integral oil cooler upgrade like the RD radiators do.
I look forward to a report on the DeWitt radiator as a track device (did not know it was out yet for the Z06). Too bad it does not have the integral oil cooler upgrade like the RD radiators do.
03-26-2015, 03:51 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but unless you live near an Autobahn, or maybe Montana, there is no excuse for a Z to even exist as a street car. Also, I would suggest that if it weren't for us "small chunk of the customer base", this car would not be built, period....
03-26-2015, 04:38 PM
#19
You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but unless you live near an Autobahn, or maybe Montana, there is no excuse for a Z to even exist as a street car. Also, I would suggest that if it weren't for us "small chunk of the customer base", this car would not be built, period....
If it's only purpose is to be used on the track, there would be no reason for it to have navigation (or even be street legal for that matter) but the hard truth is that the majority of people drive it around and never use half of its equipment.
I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's how most drivers are using them. If Chevy could easily and definitively identify if the car has ever been used at the track I would bet they wouldn't honor a warranty for those customers.
03-26-2015, 04:57 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
False. Corvette sales could be 10% lower and it would still be selling well. People want to have a track capable car despite never actually using it. It seems stupid (and frankly it is) but that's the story for the overwhelming majority of owners. And the contra of your argument also works against you too. If the car was meant solely to be used at the track, it wouldn't exist as a street car either.
If it's only purpose is to be used on the track, there would be no reason for it to have navigation (or even be street legal for that matter) but the hard truth is that the majority of people drive it around and never use half of its equipment.
I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's how most drivers are using them. If Chevy could easily and definitively identify if the car has ever been used at the track I would bet they wouldn't honor a warranty for those customers.
If it's only purpose is to be used on the track, there would be no reason for it to have navigation (or even be street legal for that matter) but the hard truth is that the majority of people drive it around and never use half of its equipment.
I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's how most drivers are using them. If Chevy could easily and definitively identify if the car has ever been used at the track I would bet they wouldn't honor a warranty for those customers.
GM honors the warranty for track use so long as you do not mod because it is a selling feature of the car.
I am counsel for a motorsports country club, and you'd be surprised what kind of cars show up for occasional track duty. Cars today are at their zenith, at least in ICE form, and a car like this Z, if you never take it to the track, is just a waste. That is not to say it needs to spend all its time there--we have Ariel Atoms and many others for that--but it is a fantastic dual-purpose car and is warranted as such.
The Z is a great car, looking for just a touch of improvement. Hopefully for 2016.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 03-26-2015 at 05:02 PM.