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Anyone use XP10 front and XP10 rear for the Z07 ceramic rotors? I have now XP10 front XP8 rear. Rear look clean not working very hard front black. Track driving. Thinking I should try XP10 front and rear. Thank you
Anyone use XP10 front and XP10 rear for the Z07 ceramic rotors? I have now XP10 front XP8 rear. Rear look clean not working very hard front black. Track driving. Thinking I should try XP10 front and rear. Thank you
If your rear is not working hard, I would stick with XP8. If you go to XP10 rear you are not going to create enough heat for the 10 to work properly. If anything I would go 12 front.
Careful..... Your playing around with some expensive parts! Years ago I also read on here some poor rotor wear with non oem pads. I'm really liking the feel and consistency of the stock pads and my wear has been as expected on the track.
I will leave this here and I am not trying to have a war on brake pads on this combo for the ZO7. Bill will say that he had premature rotor wear. I believe because the Carbotech pads he used where for the ZR1. That pad did not cover enough rotor surface. I can not confirm or deny his issue. What I can say is Bill had an early production pad that was thought to be the same as the ZR1 pad. In testing Carbotech has found that it's not the same pad shape for the ZO7. The C7 CCB takes a little bit more pad material than the ZR1 and Carbotech has since rectified that issue.
The Carbotech compound is pretty friendly up to XP12 for the CCB rotor. I have also not seen an issue where the Carbotech pads have destroyed a rotor. Carbotech sells their pads to Ferrari customers and Porsche with no issue.
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Last edited by Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com; 01-19-2017 at 09:31 PM.
I will leave this here and I am not trying to have a war on brake pads on this combo for the ZO7. Bill will say that he had premature rotor wear. I believe because the Carbotech pads he used where for the ZR1. That pad did not cover enough rotor surface. I can not confirm or deny his issue. What I can say is Bill had an early production pad that was thought to be the same as the ZR1 pad. In testing Carbotech has found that it's not the same pad shape for the ZO7. The C7 CCB takes a little bit more pad material than the ZR1 and Carbotech has since rectified that issue.
The Carbotech compound is pretty friendly up to XP12 for the CCB rotor. I have also not seen an issue where the Carbotech pads have destroyed a rotor. Carbotech sells their pads to Ferrari customers and Porsche with no issue.
Not trying to get into a fight over this. This is what I did and what my observations were and some conclusions I have made that may or may not be correct. I started the track season using the stock pads. They worked fine but were worn after 3 days of track time at VIR. I decided to see if a more race oriented and also lower cost pad (by about $100) would work just as well. I decided to purchase the XP10s as I thought they would best match the friction characteristics of my stock rear pads. They worked well with the factory pads in the rear and lasted me 6 days. At that point I started comparing the looks of my front rotors to the rears. The front rotors were pitting quite badly and looking very grungy. Minimum rotor thickness checks and weight checks showed they should have more life left than they looked like they had left.
That is when I decided to finish using the stock pads. I got another 2.5 half days out of the stock front pads and the rotors actually started looking better. They started getting the dull shine the rear rotors had and I thought they were going to last me through the rest of the season (5.5 more track days) so installed a new set of stock pads to finish out the rest of the event (1.5 days) and went home.
When I started doing my post event mechanical checks I noticed the rotor had a fairly deep groove just outside of the arc of the rotor hat bolts. This groove was causing my fairly new pads to build up an edge that fit into the groove. Outside of that area the pads wore fine but that groove on both sides of the rotor took it far below minimum thickness specs although the rotor still more than minimum weight. I pretty much made up my mind the rotor was toast when I saw how bad the groove was and didn't want to trust my life or somebody else's life to it holding up on track. After a total of 13 track days new rotors were going to cost me about $3100 and the pads that had seen 1.5 track days would either require some serious filing to remove the edge or be replaced.
That is when I started questioning whether or not the Carbotech's did something to accelerate the wear or to cause the groove to appear. In another thread johhny c responded with his opinion that Pagid is the only company making pads that are truly compatible with the Brembo ceramic rotors and he was recommending a Pagid racing pad that several race teams were finding worked well. He didn't sell the pads but a couple of forum vendors do and several other online shops do as well. The problem was they were $700 per axle.
That is when I decided to throw in the towel and go with the front Essex AP Racing BBK.
Did the Carbos cause the groove? I don't know. I tried to find out whether other people have had the groove occur on their rotors but I haven't received much feedback. That may be because they didn't notice it. Just looking at the rotor that area doesn't look like it is wearing as much as the rest of the rotor because of the weave of the fibers showing on the surface. When you take the rotor and run your finger over it you can feel the depression. Once you know it is there it seems to stick out like a sore thumb.
Even pictures I took of the groove didn't really show much.
This picture was taken after 9 track days and the 6th day of using the XP10 pads. The pads are still installed.
The following pictures were taken after 13 track days. The pad shown had seen 1.5 track days at the Glen.
The edge on the pad is a couple of mm thick and both pads in both front calipers were worn this way. The face of the rotor was a few tenths of a mm above the minimum thickness which I think is 35 mm. That meant the rotor thickness in the grooved area was around 30 to 31 mm.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 01-21-2017 at 03:22 PM.
I have 7 track days 4 of them with the XP10 just starting to see the groove. Thats why was wondering if the rear could work harder. Im going to try the new design pad XP10. I am installing the 17 air cooling ducts so maybe that will help. I will check the rotors when I replace the pads next week. Thanks for the input
Pagid and Endless manufacture pads specifically for CCM rotors.
I have a C6/Z06 and C7/Z06 with CCM brakes.
I use RSC2 front and RSC1 rear. My C6 has over two years of track days on one set of rotors using Pagid pads. When the OEM pads on my C7 need replacing, Pagid will be what I use.
Pagid and Endless manufacture pads specifically for CCM rotors.
I have a C6/Z06 and C7/Z06 with CCM brakes.
I use RSC2 front and RSC1 rear. My C6 has over two years of track days on one set of rotors using Pagid pads. When the OEM pads on my C7 need replacing, Pagid will be what I use.
Your and other people's experience with the C6 was what me think the use of pads not designed for ceramic rotors may have hastened the end of life on C7Z07 brakes. Especially considering the front rotor and pads are the same for both the C6 and C7. The C7Z weighs about 200 lbs more than the C6ZR1 but that shouldn't shorten brake pad life by half or more.
It would be nice to know how to read the info on the Endless web page.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 01-21-2017 at 08:12 PM.
Pagid manufactures the OEM CCM pads for Brembo.
You can buy Pagid pads in the aftermarket for C6 & C7 CCM brakes.
[url]
Pagid and Endless manufacture pads specifically for CCM rotors.
I have a C6/Z06 and C7/Z06 with CCM brakes.
I use RSC2 front and RSC1 rear. My C6 has over two years of track days on one set of rotors using Pagid pads. When the OEM pads on my C7 need replacing, Pagid will be what I use.
I love Pagid on the carbon discs
But, in addition, a very very good cooling is very important
Heat is the important factor in the life of CCM rotors. Over heat them and the binder that holds the rotor materials together turns to a gas and the rotor becomes structurally weak. On my C6 I have spindle ducts, ZR1 lower control arm deflectors, and Katech bake ducts in he splitter. Also temperature sensing paint on the rotors and pad backing plates.
The additional lower control arm brake cooling ducts supplied with the 2017 C7's does help with brake rotor temps. I have installed them on my 2016 Z06 with CCM brakes and saw lower rotor temps during track use compared to original single brake cooling duct.
Heat is the important factor in the life of CCM rotors. Over heat them and the binder that holds the rotor materials together turns to a gas and the rotor becomes structurally weak. On my C6 I have spindle ducts, ZR1 lower control arm deflectors, and Katech bake ducts in he splitter. Also temperature sensing paint on the rotors and pad backing plates.
The additional lower control arm brake cooling ducts supplied with the 2017 C7's does help with brake rotor temps. I have installed them on my 2016 Z06 with CCM brakes and saw lower rotor temps during track use compared to original single brake cooling duct.
That is good to know somebody has seen some positive results from the new GM ducts. I installed them last month. I didn't get the wheel blockers since I wasn't sure they would work with my 18 inch CCW track wheels.
I tried the LG duct kit on my C7Z last year. However, after I broke and repaired the ducts several times I left them off after I upgraded to the Essex kit. They didn't really blow air directly into the center of the ceramic rotor since there was no way they could get the duct that close to the center so I don't know whether they helped or not.
I did get the wheel blockers should they be installed or not for the CCM rotor? Looks like my next CCM rotors I will try the Pagid pads it would be great to get 25-30 track days on the front rotors. That would be 3 years for me. I don’t drive ***** to the wall all day long anyways. I was trying to find what happens to the CCM rotor when it fails pictures or what goes wrong? Or just break apart from the heat? Thats why you have the heat paint? Thanks
Wheel -blockers will fit with CCB rotors.
19 inch OEM wheels clear them.
18 inch track wheels such as CCW and Finspeed will not clear them.
Hoosier may have some 19 and 20 inch R7 and A7 tires soon.
Although not included in the GM Instructions I removed this small deflector when I installed the 2017 ducting. With the suspension in full droop it was interfering with the new duct as the front wheels turned and it looked to me as if it would block air flowing from the duct toward the rotor. It is part of the original brake deflector design that flowed air along the front of the control arms toward the duct and it is fastened tightly to the knuckle. With the new design the air blows through the center of the control arms and comes in behind this deflector and is blocked because the deflector is so close to the knuckle.
The question I have is it right to leave this part in or is it right to take it out?
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 01-24-2017 at 02:06 PM.
...In testing Carbotech has found that it's not the same pad shape for the ZO7. The C7 CCB takes a little bit more pad material than the ZR1 and Carbotech has since rectified that issue...
I have a ZR1 and a C7 Z06 Z07.
I have compared the pads and the backing plates are IDENTICAL for the both the front and the rear!!
When comparing the front pads, they are IDENTICAL on the pad/compound side as well.
The rear pad/compound side is different. On the ZR1 the pad material is beveled on both ends, where on the C7 pads the compound is the same thickness all the way to the end of the backing plate.
So.....the ONLY difference between ZR1 and C7 Z07 pads is that the rear ZR1 pads have the ends beveled.
BTW - the OE pads come from Brembo, but the compounds are either Pagid or Textar. The OE pads for both the ZR1 and the C7 have the exact same compounds - Textar T4300 on the fronts, and Pagid S600 on the rear.
You can see in the picture below of front pads (ZR1 on the left, C7 on the right) that they are exactly the same pad. And you can see that the pad compound is Textar T4300 (it's on the box and the pad backing plate):
And in the picture below of the rear pads, you can see the left ZR1 pad compound is beveled on each end of the pad whereas the C7 pad has a consistent thickness on the whole backing plate. You can also see that the rear compound is Pagid S600 (it's also on the box and the backing plate):
Bottom line - I find the ZR1 and C7 pads are identical except for ZR1 rears have the compound beveled down on the ends.
And - the compound is Pagid in the rear, but it's Textar in the front!!
I have compared the pads and the backing plates are IDENTICAL for the both the front and the rear!!
When comparing the front pads, they are IDENTICAL on the pad/compound side as well.
The rear pad/compound side is different. On the ZR1 the pad material is beveled on both ends, where on the C7 pads the compound is the same thickness all the way to the end of the backing plate.
So.....the ONLY difference between ZR1 and C7 Z07 pads is that the rear ZR1 pads have the ends beveled.
BTW - the OE pads come from Brembo, but the compounds are either Pagid or Textar. The OE pads for both the ZR1 and the C7 have the exact same compounds - Textar T4300 on the fronts, and Pagid S600 on the rear.
You can see in the picture below of front pads (ZR1 on the left, C7 on the right) that they are exactly the same pad. And you can see that the pad compound is Textar T4300 (it's on the box and the pad backing plate):
And in the picture below of the rear pads, you can see the left ZR1 pad compound is beveled on each end of the pad whereas the C7 pad has a consistent thickness on the whole backing plate. You can also see that the rear compound is Pagid S600 (it's also on the box and the backing plate):
Bottom line - I find the ZR1 and C7 pads are identical except for ZR1 rears have the compound beveled down on the ends.
And - the compound is Pagid in the rear, but it's Textar in the front!!
.
I understand what you are saying and what I should have said they are the same Carbotech re designed the actual puck material to provide more coverage. 2010 ZR1 rear on the left Carbotech 1521 on the right.
Last edited by Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com; 02-04-2017 at 10:11 AM.
01-18-2017, 12:12 AM
Carbotech pads? Track days pads? Z07
