F1: Renault Expects to Win Mass Damper Appeal
08-10-2006, 02:59 AM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,607
Received 239 Likes
on
167 Posts
F1: Renault Expects to Win Mass Damper Appeal
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/formulaone/auto/30636/
That's cool
What I want to know is what so innovative.
Anyone here anything?
EDIT:
Found something
http://www.formula1.com/race/technic...s/762/311.html
That's cool
What I want to know is what so innovative.
Anyone here anything?
EDIT:
Found something
http://www.formula1.com/race/technic...s/762/311.html
Not new, but the subject of much controversy in Germany, the damper takes the form of a free-moving mass inside a vertical spring. Its function is to reduce the sensitivity of the car's front end to differing load variations between high- and low-speed sections of the track, and to counteract the negative effects of rebound over kerbs, so as to keep the car perfectly balanced and hence - indirectly - improve its aerodynamic efficiency. The FIA has contested its legality on the basis that no parts exerting an aerodynamic influence may be mobile. However, the German stewards found no problem with it - a decision the FIA has appealed against. Hence, Renault could race with the system this weekend, but are thought unlikely to take the risk.
Last edited by BrianCunningham; 08-10-2006 at 03:04 AM.
08-10-2006, 07:52 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 5,708
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Cruise-In II Veteran
These cars are so light and the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight is very low. Now add springs that very stiff and you have a situation where when you hit a bump and the car wants to move almost as fast as the wheels. This is a very clever way of keeping car closer to the normal ride height in the front (pitch) so that the wings maintain closer to the correct angle of attack. I suspect that the damper is not just a spring and mass as shown in the links but rather has some viscous fluid like glycerin or oil in it as well. Cheers to this team, very cool idea!
08-10-2006, 09:25 AM
#5
Race Director
I've been out of the loop on this one as well. I think they talk about it more on the practice shows, but I usually just watch qualifying and the races.
Last year, one of the teams tried running an axle in the front of the car (linking the two wheels), which helped act as a passive ABS system. Of course it was ruled illegal after one event (or less). I enjoy seeing new inovations, even if they are deemed illegal before they hit the track.
Will look into this more myself!
Last year, one of the teams tried running an axle in the front of the car (linking the two wheels), which helped act as a passive ABS system. Of course it was ruled illegal after one event (or less). I enjoy seeing new inovations, even if they are deemed illegal before they hit the track.
Will look into this more myself!
08-10-2006, 09:29 AM
#6
Race Director
that last link (brian) is a good one. Seems to me know more technical than the drivers feet bouncing around in the front of the car. So it isn't linked to the suspension in any way, has no direct aerodynamic benefit (isn't attached to or exposed to flowing air), but the FIA still doesn't like it??
They should mount it inside of their helmets!
***btw, I wonder how much MASS this thing has. In other words, I wonder if it is a significant amount relative to the weight of the car?? Seems like it is a way to slow the transfer of weight into the suspension.
They should mount it inside of their helmets!
***btw, I wonder how much MASS this thing has. In other words, I wonder if it is a significant amount relative to the weight of the car?? Seems like it is a way to slow the transfer of weight into the suspension.
Last edited by davidfarmer; 08-10-2006 at 09:33 AM.
08-10-2006, 12:13 PM
#9
The F1 announcing crew was talking about it when the FIA banned it. They said that the advantage to the mass damper is that with the car more stable, they can run it at a lower ride height without wearing out the legality plank. This is supposed to help out with aerodynamics.
I'm sure it's an advantage and I don't see why they made it illegal in the first place. It's not a moveable aerodynamic device like a flexing wing.
It's probably bs politics after everyone else complained about the wing flexing on the Ferrari.
I don't care about rulings like this, but when they make them mid season when you're in the middle of a championship fight is bs. If the Ferrari wing is flexing and coming together on the long straights to lessen drag, I can see why they'd make them change it because it's clearly illegal. When someone like Renault goes to the FIA with the plans of building a mass damper, gets the approval, builds it and then the FIA bans it, that's pure bs.
I'm sure it's an advantage and I don't see why they made it illegal in the first place. It's not a moveable aerodynamic device like a flexing wing.
It's probably bs politics after everyone else complained about the wing flexing on the Ferrari.
I don't care about rulings like this, but when they make them mid season when you're in the middle of a championship fight is bs. If the Ferrari wing is flexing and coming together on the long straights to lessen drag, I can see why they'd make them change it because it's clearly illegal. When someone like Renault goes to the FIA with the plans of building a mass damper, gets the approval, builds it and then the FIA bans it, that's pure bs.
08-10-2006, 10:01 PM
#10
Pro
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Bradenton FL FL
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They said that the advantage to the mass damper is that with the car more stable, they can run it at a lower ride height without wearing out the legality plank. This is supposed to help out with aerodynamics.
08-10-2006, 10:15 PM
#11
They said that the advantage to the mass damper is that with the car more stable, they can run it at a lower ride height without wearing out the legality plank. This is supposed to help out with aerodynamics.
With that kind of logic perhaps they should get rid of the throttle pedal as well. Moving it towards the floor causes the car to go faster and in turn creates more downforce.
Who knows why they want to ban it. The teams went to the FIA in the first place to ask them if they could build it and they were given the ok. Then, they ban it. That's probably what happened with the front winglets on the BMW. They were probably given the ok to build it and then the FIA banned it once they saw how ugly it was.
There was even some dissention among the FIA because it's not against the rules as they are written. It's not a movable aerodynic device because it's buried in the nose of the car. How could it be? The Stewards were originally overruling Charlie Whiting's decision to ban the mass damper. The reason why Renault went ahead and removed it was because they were afraid that there would be penalties for running it. When you're currently leading the Championship, you just can't take that chance.
I think it's all political bs. Ferrari was probably whining about the mass damper after the teams pressured the FIA to look at Ferrari's collapsable wing.
