Hoosier R6 scrubs with -1.2 Camber?
04-08-2011, 05:08 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Hoosier R6 scrubs with -1.2 Camber?
Hoosier recommends -3.0 degrees of camber. The Pfadt spec for performance street and track use with race tires is -1.7 degrees for the front.
I am very pressed for time before my first HPDE. If I run with the existing alignment of Front: -1.2 Camber, 8.0 Caster and -1/32 toe, Rear: -0.8 camber and -1/32 toe, how much wear will I see? This is my first event on race tires.
I can squeak in an alignment on the morning before I leave, but that was the last piece of slack time that I have in my schedule. Something has got to give but I'd rather not fry my tires the first time out.
Jim
I am very pressed for time before my first HPDE. If I run with the existing alignment of Front: -1.2 Camber, 8.0 Caster and -1/32 toe, Rear: -0.8 camber and -1/32 toe, how much wear will I see? This is my first event on race tires.
I can squeak in an alignment on the morning before I leave, but that was the last piece of slack time that I have in my schedule. Something has got to give but I'd rather not fry my tires the first time out.
Jim
04-08-2011, 06:54 AM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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your FIRST HPDE?
No offense do not run the Hoosiers, run your street tires and keep a modest alignment.
You will learn far more on your street tires then the Hoosiers, for your first 6 - 10 track events.
Also many clubs do not allow the Novice or beginner groups on R compounds. We at the NCM HPDE do not.
Go have fun and learn
No offense do not run the Hoosiers, run your street tires and keep a modest alignment.
You will learn far more on your street tires then the Hoosiers, for your first 6 - 10 track events.
Also many clubs do not allow the Novice or beginner groups on R compounds. We at the NCM HPDE do not.
Go have fun and learn
04-08-2011, 08:07 AM
#5
Team Owner
Scrubs can cord easily depending on condition. When I started I heard all the people saying don't run on Hoosiers right away. I did a few events and found the transition easy to slicks. Use your head and you will not be swapping ends or flying off the track. Build you speed slowly.
It will depend how hard you run the tires with that alignment on how long they last. I am sure if they were run real hard they could easily be killed in two sessions of 20 minutes each.
I guess if you have the car control to slide street tires around a corner your good to get slicks. With some caution you should not have a problem that they just fly off the track with no warning if you have driven hipo vehicles before.
It will depend how hard you run the tires with that alignment on how long they last. I am sure if they were run real hard they could easily be killed in two sessions of 20 minutes each.
I guess if you have the car control to slide street tires around a corner your good to get slicks. With some caution you should not have a problem that they just fly off the track with no warning if you have driven hipo vehicles before.
04-08-2011, 08:15 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
If this is your first HPDE your question isn't so consequential to your tire wear.
There is no one alignment that is perfect for every track. For a tight short track more camber may help for example because you wont be giving up speed on long straights like Road America or VIR (same holds for aero).
How is your car modified? Stock tie-rods ball joints etc...? You can wear those out prematurely as well by stressing them. Also, the stock cam bolts only allow so much adjustment. Are you going to corner-balance your car? What are the rules of this HPDE group you are running? Chances are you will not be driving fast enough (and most likely over-driving and wrestling the car) where you're going to witness miswear from any alignment.
I've posted this many times in the past, but here is what I found to work very well with beginners in Z06 cars tracked with Hoosiers WHILE STILL DRIVING HOME to preserve tire wear. Ideally you can dial the negative camber to -2 in the front after more seat time.
Also something to consider. Have you had any skidpad experience? Dialing in front negative car will help plant the car but may also enable the rear end to become loose (holding all other suspension adjustments constant).
b You'll only be cheating yourself.
Look forward to your post-event report!
Mike
There is no one alignment that is perfect for every track. For a tight short track more camber may help for example because you wont be giving up speed on long straights like Road America or VIR (same holds for aero).
How is your car modified? Stock tie-rods ball joints etc...? You can wear those out prematurely as well by stressing them. Also, the stock cam bolts only allow so much adjustment. Are you going to corner-balance your car? What are the rules of this HPDE group you are running? Chances are you will not be driving fast enough (and most likely over-driving and wrestling the car) where you're going to witness miswear from any alignment.
I've posted this many times in the past, but here is what I found to work very well with beginners in Z06 cars tracked with Hoosiers WHILE STILL DRIVING HOME to preserve tire wear. Ideally you can dial the negative camber to -2 in the front after more seat time.
Also something to consider. Have you had any skidpad experience? Dialing in front negative car will help plant the car but may also enable the rear end to become loose (holding all other suspension adjustments constant).
b You'll only be cheating yourself.Look forward to your post-event report!
Mike
04-08-2011, 08:17 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
04-08-2011, 09:08 AM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
This is my first event on RACE TIRES 
; Sorry, I didn't make that more clear. I've got 19 track days so far in the C6ZO6, mostly VIR but also Summit point, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta and a lot more experience in a 69 Corvette from a previous life.
Suspension is stock except for DRM Bilstein shocks. Poly bushings are planned for this summer. Up until now, I've been running GY F1's and still have at least one HPDE's worth of tread left on those but they are at least three years old and they've been heat cycled substantially so they are as hard a rocks now.
I run in the intermediate class and drive fairly aggressively. I trailer to the events so driving home is not an issue; however, I've not made this a dedicated track car yet, hence the nominal Pfadt specs that I quoted for a "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires".
What I hear so far is that with only -1.2 camber in the front, I could see significant wear. VIR is the track of choice this year due to gas prices.
If that's the case then I need to either get the alignment done or run the GY F1's one more event to prevent trashing the R6's. It also sounds like -1.5 to -1.7 is a good front camber setting for a sometimes street driven C6ZO6 that runs Hoosiers on the track? (Again, mostly VIR)
Appreciate the advice.
Jim
; Sorry, I didn't make that more clear. I've got 19 track days so far in the C6ZO6, mostly VIR but also Summit point, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta and a lot more experience in a 69 Corvette from a previous life. Suspension is stock except for DRM Bilstein shocks. Poly bushings are planned for this summer. Up until now, I've been running GY F1's and still have at least one HPDE's worth of tread left on those but they are at least three years old and they've been heat cycled substantially so they are as hard a rocks now.
I run in the intermediate class and drive fairly aggressively. I trailer to the events so driving home is not an issue; however, I've not made this a dedicated track car yet, hence the nominal Pfadt specs that I quoted for a "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires".
What I hear so far is that with only -1.2 camber in the front, I could see significant wear. VIR is the track of choice this year due to gas prices.
If that's the case then I need to either get the alignment done or run the GY F1's one more event to prevent trashing the R6's. It also sounds like -1.5 to -1.7 is a good front camber setting for a sometimes street driven C6ZO6 that runs Hoosiers on the track? (Again, mostly VIR)
Appreciate the advice.
Jim
04-08-2011, 03:14 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
The first year I ran Hoosier R6 tires I had -1.5 camber in front and -0.75 in the rear. I ended up with 6 or 7 events but I had to flip the tires on the rim about half way through. The outer edges wore pretty quick with only -1.5 in the front. Since then, I now dial in -2.7 camber in front and -1.5 in the rear and this helps with wear. I actually adjust the front camber each time I go to the track by removing the upper washers on the A arms and then adjusting the toe. Not very difficult or time consuming once you do it a few times.
The wear on my street times with -1.5 all around is not too bad with the stock OEM tires.
The wear on my street times with -1.5 all around is not too bad with the stock OEM tires.
04-08-2011, 04:18 PM
#11
Team Owner
This is my first event on RACE TIRES ; Sorry, I didn't make that more clear. I've got 19 track days so far in the C6ZO6, mostly VIR but also Summit point, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta and a lot more experience in a 69 Corvette from a previous life.
Suspension is stock except for DRM Bilstein shocks. Poly bushings are planned for this summer. Up until now, I've been running GY F1's and still have at least one HPDE's worth of tread left on those but they are at least three years old and they've been heat cycled substantially so they are as hard a rocks now.
I run in the intermediate class and drive fairly aggressively. I trailer to the events so driving home is not an issue; however, I've not made this a dedicated track car yet, hence the nominal Pfadt specs that I quoted for a "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires".
What I hear so far is that with only -1.2 camber in the front, I could see significant wear. VIR is the track of choice this year due to gas prices.
If that's the case then I need to either get the alignment done or run the GY F1's one more event to prevent trashing the R6's. It also sounds like -1.5 to -1.7 is a good front camber setting for a sometimes street driven C6ZO6 that runs Hoosiers on the track? (Again, mostly VIR)
Appreciate the advice.
Jim
; Sorry, I didn't make that more clear. I've got 19 track days so far in the C6ZO6, mostly VIR but also Summit point, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta and a lot more experience in a 69 Corvette from a previous life. Suspension is stock except for DRM Bilstein shocks. Poly bushings are planned for this summer. Up until now, I've been running GY F1's and still have at least one HPDE's worth of tread left on those but they are at least three years old and they've been heat cycled substantially so they are as hard a rocks now.
I run in the intermediate class and drive fairly aggressively. I trailer to the events so driving home is not an issue; however, I've not made this a dedicated track car yet, hence the nominal Pfadt specs that I quoted for a "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires".
What I hear so far is that with only -1.2 camber in the front, I could see significant wear. VIR is the track of choice this year due to gas prices.
If that's the case then I need to either get the alignment done or run the GY F1's one more event to prevent trashing the R6's. It also sounds like -1.5 to -1.7 is a good front camber setting for a sometimes street driven C6ZO6 that runs Hoosiers on the track? (Again, mostly VIR)
Appreciate the advice.
Jim
04-10-2011, 09:17 AM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice guy.
I have decided to go with the max specs from Pfadt for "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires", -1.8 camber (F), -1.1 Camber (R) and rotate the tires after the first day. These are scrubs with 75% tread left although I don't know how one would verify that.... The groves are visible; I assume that when the groves are gone, cording occurs very soon thereafter?
So you need three sets of friggin' wheels don't ya? Once I cord the R6's, I've got to switch to my street tires that I take along as a rain tire.
I don't have a tire rack on my trailer so I can only take one set of spares.
Thanks again for the advice!
Jim
I have decided to go with the max specs from Pfadt for "Performance Street, Track Use with Race Tires", -1.8 camber (F), -1.1 Camber (R) and rotate the tires after the first day. These are scrubs with 75% tread left although I don't know how one would verify that.... The groves are visible; I assume that when the groves are gone, cording occurs very soon thereafter?
So you need three sets of friggin' wheels don't ya? Once I cord the R6's, I've got to switch to my street tires that I take along as a rain tire.
I don't have a tire rack on my trailer so I can only take one set of spares.
Thanks again for the advice!
Jim
