Grace91

TJ, this is something that has been on my mind recently given the recent news that Washington and Oregon will be adopting the California CARB emissions standards. Given that you own a business that specializes in the installation and optimization of performance enhancing automotive products, what is your guidance with regard to CARB and the future of those performance enhancing products such as headers, dual exhausts, high flow cats and the like that were installed on our cars prior to the enforcement of CARB standards? Will we be forced to remove them to pass emissions even if our cars were emissions compliant with those devices installed prior to the enforcement of CARB?

I’m chomping at the bit to install a Melrose long tube dual high flow cat system on my 91 but don’t want to waste my time or money if the State is going to make be remove it before I can re-up my tabs.

Thanks in advance for your insight into this issue.

Chris

mike_jd1

When is this supposed to happen?

c4cruiser

I think the new OR and WA standards apply to new cars sold as of Jan 1 2007. I have not heard of any changes to WA laws that would require older cars to meet CA standards or only use the CA CARB-authorized aftermarket parts.

In any event, in WA only certain counties (and certain ZIP codes within some of those counties) require emissions testing. WA does not have a visual inspection requirement for aftermarket parts, only a sniffer test.

As long as you pass the sniffer test, you are good to go. Even if you fail, I think that you only need to show you have spent a certain dollar amount to solve emissions problems before you get an exemption.

If we were going to be held to the complete CA CARB standards for all cars, we certainly would have heard about it by now.

Grace91

The current standard is exactly how you describe it and from what I've read I think that you guys in Lacy won't have to worry about CARB even if it affects some of us here in the Puget Sound area as both standards (current and proposed future) only apply to "high density areas" like Seattle/Eastside, Portland, etc.

I also think/hope that the CARB standard only applies to new cars and used cars with less than 7,500 miles.

I still hope that T.J. replys as I'm sure he will be up to speed on this.

boerio

Now, I'm not about to say that governments do things with common sense

But it would be truly insane and inconsistent for them to enforce pre-2007 cars to meet the same guidelines. Look at the vintage cars. They haven't been forced to adopt current clean air standards.

- Jeff

Grace91

Totally agree.

I guess my biggest fear would be that somehow they sneak in a requirement for a visual inspection of all emission controlled cars produced in the last 25 years. As we all know the current federal regulation states “thou shall not monkey with any emission related components”, or something like that, so they could be within their right to enact the visual inspection that exists in Cali.

I guess you can call me paranoid about this subject but if they look under my hood, I’ll probably be making future posts to this forum from the State facility in Monroe.

Zoso1951

Doesn't happen until 2009.
Only applies to cars built from 2009 and out.

chris von ravensberg

if you dont mind my asking....where did you find out that the law isnt until 2009? does it give anymore details? email mail me if you dont mind....thanks chris von ravensberg (seattle) clvr@msn.com

f451degrees

Looking to do the same to my 91 vert, what eshaust system are you thinking of using.

see ya on the road

Grace91

Melrose has the nicest complete system (sans mufflers) that I have ever seen for a C-4. Last time I talked to the guys at Melrose they said the system would run about $1,600.

I think T.J. has installed this system and thinks pretty highly of the quality. Maybe he could also chime in on the C4 vert install as I also have a vert and have concerns about X-brace clearance.

You can check the system out at www.melroseheaders.com

DidntSettle

Link? I thought that it only happened in Washington if Oregon adopted it? Our future is in the hands of the folks in Oregon. Why the fools in this state ever voted for something this idiotic, is beyond me.

boerio

Heh ... I had my exhaust visually inspected last time I went through Oregon's emissions check. The monkey doing the job didn't notice there were two things missing on my car .... the mufflers themselves! I'm essentially a straight pipe from the cats to the exhaust tips.

Jeff

c4cruiser

The OR Legislature passed their version this summer. Bless their little pea-pickin' hearts.... So now it's law in WA as the WA Legislature passed the bill back during the last session.

We have to remember that our WA Governor was once head of the Department of Ecology, the Agency that controls the emissions testing process and decides what the standards are and who gets to be sniffed.

tjwong

I wouldn't get your feathers all ruffled over this. The fact is that our beloved Governor had adopted CARB BS to Oregon, and because Washington wishes to be a copy cat as long as we (Oregon) went along with it they did as well.

But that just means that the new cars being produced for delivery to our area will have the same emissions standards as the Republic of California. However the funny thing about this is that 99% of the cars produced by GM and for that matter the other manufacturers as well, already confirm to CARB standards, it just isn't in the little emissions tag in the engine compartment. There are just small differences, none that will drastically affect power levels of the design.

As for inspection stations, that is where the problem will lie. I really don't think that Oregon or Washington will change their inspection routine. In fact Oregon is phasing out their IM240 or BAR30 testing strategy. This means that most cars built before 1996 will get a basic sniffer test rather than the much more stringent "enhanced test" where the car is placed on a small dyno and ran up and down in speed. Some bone stock ZR1's will not pass this test just because when it was built it was never tested in such a manner. I have made them pass with a dyno tuned emissions chip, but it is a pain in the azz to do.

For more information on Oregons phase out of their enhanced testing method go here: http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/vip/pdfs/enhancedpnfs.pdf

From all the indications I see, any OBD2 equipped car will get the standard OBD2 test here in Oregon and Washington. This means that there is no visual inspection, and all they do is to plug into your OBD2 port to check for active DTCs and for the IM240 rediness status flags. For those that are not sure what these are, the IM240 rediness flags are a set of flags that indicate which systems has gone through a series of tests that the PCM performs during normal driving. Once these systems goes through the PCM tests and passes, it gets a system ready flag. In Oregon I am pretty sure that you need 3 out of 5 ready flags, however recently I was told by someone else that one needs 4 out of 5, Washington I beleive requires 3.

So for the most part I would not worry too much about the up coming CARB BS. We will still be able to install our headers and other bolt one speed parts. Another reason not to worry to much is that I have not heard of any new regulations such as what is in California that governs what parts we install on our cars. Besides that, I doubt the bozos working at the local inspection stations would know the difference between a set of headers and a muffler.

As for the Melrose systems, I am not sure about how they fit into a convertible. However from what I have seen, their system tucks up nicely in the tunnel just like a stock LTx type exhaust system. It's a very well made system that includes high flow Random Technology converters. And it is made to connect to most aftermarket rear sections. I have installed 3" B&B LTx type systems on the earlier cars from 1989 thru 1991. In these cars it is a direct bolt in provided you are installing headers at the same time. With these systems I install a set or 3" bullet CATs which makes for a very clean system that will support over 650 RWHP. I know this because I installed a BB system into a 91 Callaway TTG car that made 715 to the wheels last year

Tranzor

Hey TJ... quick question about the Melrose install if you don't mind. I see from their pictures that it doesn't come with mufflers or tips... what type of mufflers and tips did your customers go with to complete the system?

tjwong

One used a 2.5" Borla system and the other I beleive was a Flowmaster system.

Give Chris a call at Melrose, he can tell you what will fit their systems as well.

Grace91

T.J. Thanks so much for the detailed and thoughtful response. I knew you would have your finger on the pulse of this thing.

Can't wait to get my car on your rollers. Give me a little time and a few more mods and I'll be visiting you.

Chris