confab

My bodywork experience is getting a little dated. Used PPG products then.. But I've moved and there's nobody close who sells it.

Local jobber is a NAPA and they handle Martin Senour.

http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.com/

Anyone using them or have any thoughts on MS?

It's totally new to me.. I've never even touched their products..

rogman16

Can't answer the MS question, but just used PPG products with great results... I purchased most of my stuff through the mail as well... Believe I couldn't get the reducer mailed so I got that through my local jobber... That worked out well as the two times I painted, needed different drying times for my reducer...

Rogman

porchdog

i would give it away before using it .

orourke

Why?

confab

Rlly?

There a particular reason for that?

DUB

VERY LONG POST

****Just my thoughts on this because this is a subject that comes up in my shop from time to time*****

I am NOT speaking for "porchdog". He can do that all on his own.

I ...myself have used many paint manufacturers paint. Some that I felt at the time was not worth crap...and I felt like I was applying crap...but when applied in accordance with their recommendations...the paint is still looking good.... because some of the stuff that I have painted...the people could not invest the $$$ that the "big name paint" companies were wanting.

Now ..with that written...I know of a few "new" paint companies that do not have the marketing capitol to get their product out widespread in the marketplace....and they have to compete with the "big" name companies who spend major bucks trying to keep their name out there...which costs them money and who do you think pays for that NASCAR sponsored team with their name on the side? Many of these "new", unknown paint companies are often times started when the chemists of the "big" name companies leave them and want to make a name for themselves.

AS I am speaking for myself....being a painter for a very long time. A painter gets used to a particular system and MASTERS IT...or at least...hopes to master it. And when a product is given to them that is quite off the beaten path and does not lay down as fast ...or seems to be a bit thin and poor covering...the painter will obviously NOT like it.

HUMANS are creatures of HABIT....that is a FACT.

A painter often times "gets into a groove" when they put that gun in their hand and pull the trigger. If the outcome of a product being applied in any way causes for a break in this harmony...TRUST ME...I do not like it and start bitchin' like a little child. This is only because most painters who really care about what they do...do not like anything that will effect the end result that we have already have in their mind on how they want the job to turn out.

I had a friend who HATED a particular name brand of paint. He was VERY adamant about it and made it CLEAR that it was CRAP. Then...when he stopped painting...he went to being paint rep...for the company that HE HATED...and then oddly enough...now he LOVES it and it is GREAT PAINT.

I have had so many paint rep's come by my shop...and even those from the system I use...and when they see what I have painted....they ask what I used and I ask them to TELL me what I shot...and they can not. Then I tell them and they...obviously...start in with their opinions....and say that they would not have done that. And I reply..."Yeah...I know...if it isn't what YOU endorse...I know you would not approve of it".

"Rule of thumb" is to always stay in a paint system. This is true because if you use different companies products...no one will take responsibility if something goes wrong..and you want a product warrantied. This is when the "finger-pointing" will begin. And this is where the "paint companies" GET YOU and put a sense of "fear" in you if you do ANYTHING other than what they want you to do or use.

I do not use every product that my system offers...they do not like it...but once again...they can not tell a job with all their products on it and one that does not....and DURABILITY does not suffer. This is NOT my first RODEO. I have tested the products that I use from other companies and know what works and do not care about the paint company having to cover any issues(warranty)...because I do not have issues due to crossing brands. And oddly enough...ONE of the products I use is from Martin-Senour. I have shot the paint and clear of Martin-Senour and personally it worked out...but it was different that what I am used to...so of course...I did not like it because it is different...and when spraying it is was not like what I am used to and I began acting like a "spoiled brat" when painting...like I previously wrote...made me "feel" different when I was painting it. And the SAME holds true when I shoot "big" name brands of paint that are NOT what I shoot....I get to the point at times...even though the paint is good...I will say..."I wouldn't shoot this crap on the underside of my lawn mower". Once again...they are different...and if I have to change strategies when painting from my normal strategies...it creates a hiccup in my ZEN state of mind...which will tick me off....and that is only because I am INTENSE...and care what happens when I am painting AFTER all of the care and attention that I have invested in the bodywork.

I do not judge what a person chooses for paint...because I like "this-and that" from many companies...and it is totally unreasonable that I could expect for each and every person to use ONLY what I LIKE. All I can say is make good choices...and by good choices I mean if you plan on being a "mad chemist" like me and switch brands...hopefully you test it first and give it time....instead of painting it and something happens and either you can not REPAIR it due to incompatible materials reacting with each other due to the layers are broken...even though they laid down fine initially on top of each other. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN REPAIRING IT versus PAINTING IT. Always think about how you have to repair it and IF you can repair it. Most people forget about that until it is too late....and then a whole new set of products need to be employed to correct this issue...which I also have encountered in the past.

Many paint companies have "sub-lines". The paint is made by them and sold under another name because they are wanting to grab as much of the market as possible. Think of it like this...Pick a drink (soft drink, water, juice or adult approved beverages) You have name brands and those that are not really known. All of them will add liquid to you body (for what ever the reason) but will more than likely taste different and that is about it. And the prices are quite different...and people will have their favorites in this scenario also...even though trying another might not be quite what they like and comment accordingly. SO...even though we do not or should NEVER drink paint...it is mainly dealing with what is what we have grown to like and know well.
DUB

confab

Hi, Mr. DUB.. I follow your posts.

You ever use MS? Any general impressions from that?

Cause I've never touched their products.. And my experience is so old, I'm not really "into" any paint system at this point..

larryinalabama

For what it worth, I painted a old truck with NAPA Senior paint, it was still real good after 20 years when I got rid of the truck.

Its hard to find a NAPA store in my area that mixes paint anymore.

confab

Opposite here..

It's like a block away.. Nobody else.

It's so convenient, I had to ask if anyone ever used it.

tak82

As DUB said, it's going to be what your used to . If you don't spray vary often then you probably won't notice the fine or not so fine qualities of the paint. As for the quality of the paint, I can't speak from experience but there's shops that use it daily and offer warranties so I'd say it will probably hold up just fine if that's what your wondering. We have a local shop been using it for yrs and they are a busy shop putting out nice work. Maybe their primer won't build as fast or their clear may need to be over reduced not to run as much but MS has been around a while. Find a shop in your area that uses it and ask if there's any trick to getting a nice finish or if there's a product (building primer) or such that they don't prefer. Good luck !

DUB

Thanks brother....I did not know how to reply to the post when I thought I had covered this issue.

Matrin Senour is not bad paint...I just do not use it...I like Pepsi over Coco-Cola...I like Hunts catsup and not Heinz...I like Chevy..period...I like Nike and not Adidas....and it goes on and on.

If a person ONLY had MS in their area...and they knew nothing about any other paint....I am sure a person could be the master of its qualities when placed into a scenario of HAVING to use it exclusively.

Once again...Marketing "brain-washing" at its finest. And think about it...would a company offer a lower grade of paint without any type of warranty? OR...state that this lower grade of paint is guaranteed to last only 36 months after application. But they will hype up how good the warranty or benefits of the higher premium line of paint is.


DUB

confab

I'm not worried about the quality or an endorsement or anything. Just wondered if anyone had used it and could comment on the characteristics?

And I'm not familiar with any paint systems at this point.. When I painted cars, HVLP guns were just coming online. No shop in 50 miles had one.. Ditto with gravity feed. You just didn't see them.

So, I'd basically be learning anything I pick up from scratch anyway.

Oh well. Thanks for your help.

DUB

PLEASE do not get the "feeling" like you are being ignored.

Due to you not being "set in your ways" with a particular product...call the area REP for Martin Senour....if there is one...of not call Martin Senour directly and talk to the tech department...I have when I needed to know something about the polyester primer I use.....or any other product in other lines due to "possible" formula changes. Let him know you are interested in using the products that he represents.....and take it from there.

I have shot it and it works...it was a lot thinner than I am used to (viscosity)....but giving you the "in's and'out's" on the "tricks" that a painter can find and employ is something I do not have enough "trigger-time" with to confidently give you advice. I can not remember which system I shot either. I know it was basecoat. NOW...if it was with NEXA paint...that is another story ENTIRELY.

NOT meaning to throw "salt in the wounds"...and I know a lot of people shoot their own cars who have not been professionally trained in it. Because these products are for "professionally trained personnel ...under controlled conditions". SO...if you talk to the Tech Dept...and they start using terminology that does not "ring-a bell"...and you have to stop and constantly ask them what "this means" or "that means"....you might get a slightly different attitude due to the Tech Line is designed for people who know what is going on and the terms associated with it....unless you have a person on the tech line that is really willing to help you out....which does occur...and then sometimes...they give me the feeling like I am "bothering them" and they just want to sit there and get paid and DO NOTHING. If you use the Tech Line...hopefully you get someone GOOD...if not ...call back and ask for the supervisor if the next person you talk to is not worth a crap either....I know I have. Just remember ( not writing that you do not know this)...in business...SALES of a product/service is important...and repeat sales/service is more important...so next in line is CUSTOMER SERVICE and SUPPORT. IF the customer service and tech support dept really SUCK. The company WILL want to hear about it...take it from me. And on some really rare occasions...when I talk to the "big-wigs"...they seem to not give crap and treat me like I am wasting their time.

Buy some...test shoot things and see what goes on. In many paint systems...when the paint is being thinned or reduced...lets say for example 1:1. SO one pint of raw paint to one pint of reducer/thinner. In many cases ...the reducer/thinner can be adjusted..a little more or a little less.

ALSO...when you do get the paint...make sure that you get the "Product Information Bulletin" which will tell you how to mix it and flash times and what can go on it and what it can go on. Usually there will be section on that sheet for the "VISCOSITY"...measured by using a ZAHN VISCOSITY CUP....which is how you time out the paint you have reduced/thinned within a specific time criteria. BECAUSE...Mixing cold paint in the winter will "time out" differently than paint in the heat of the summer. SO having application "problems" can be attributed to mixing it like the sheet wanted you to do...but the paint and "what-have-you" were colder than ambient air temperatures which is 70-85 degree Fahrenheit and the paint is actually "different" than what was tested by the chemists...so they put this "viscosity time" on the sheet....along with using the correct grade of reducer for the current spray temps. In my paint system...I go one grade SLOWER in thinner for my paint due to it applies better and flows out slick...versus if I used the thinner for the current temps.....which is why I can not tell you to do so with this Martin-Senour product. I do not know if going one grade slower will effect it greatly or actually make it turn out better so you are not "fighting" the paint trying to apply it and it is flashing off so quickly. HENCE---TEST IT OUT.

DUB

markids77

Get a quart, mix it 4:1:1 and shoot a panel. Adjust as required to get the result you desire. Play with it and learn what does what as you adjust settings/reduction. We can't tell you exactly how to use it... you need to do that by your own feel and experience.