bradleyb66

OK, I'm getting close to putting down the paint on my 79 (been repairing, filling, sanding, etc for last 3 weeks, and will be priming this weekend). I'd like to paint it Steel Cities Gray, but saw a post about 'if you do it incorrectly, it could come out more green than gray'? Another forum member also has a thread started where DUB has been providing advice (also steel cities gray), but is not at the paint stage yet. Just want to make sure that there wasn't some secret to spraying this color, making it difficult for inexperienced painters, before I actually got the paint.

I'm leaning toward the Dupont Nason line of paint (mainly because that's what my local store sells), using an HVLP gun (purchased from TCP Global - not a high end gun, but seemed to be reviewed pretty well for the price), and will be doing it in base/clear.

I've got a retired body guy giving me some help (ok, ALOT of help!) along the way, but he didn't seem to be familiar with Steel Cities Gray. Just wanted to get any extra help available before I got too deep into this color...while I can still pick another color.

Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated!

DUB

QUESTIONS:
1.) Are you spraying it???

2.) Have you sprayed any metallic paint ever before???

One thing you have to try to take into account. Is that I can have a gun cup full of reduced/thinned metallic paint and by adjusting my gun and changing some other actions...I can create several different shades/effects of the SAME color that is in the gun cup. That is one thing a metallic paint can do that usually a solid color can not do. AND that is due to the metallic in it.

Depending on how you answered the two above questions will better direct you in shooting test panels. I do not think the Nason paint will cover fast...or at least the few times I shot it ....it seemed a bit weak in toner value.....meaning it did not want to cover quickly and took several coats to achieve a true color.

Which brings me to telling you to try at all costs...obtain the 'spray out cards'...or 'color evaluation cards' which are usually a black and white checkered piece of thick paper that allows a painter to shoot coats of the paint on it and it can tell them that when they have covered the checkers and can not see them...they know that whatever sealer they use...the paint will cover in that many coats. BUT....KEEP IN MIND that you HAVE TO SHOOT this spray out card the EXACT SAME WAY you plan on shooting the car. SO...NO double coating...and allow the paint to flash off correctly and NOT putting it in front of a fan to speed up the flash off time. AND not just letting the spray out card sit on a table....when you know the car is going to be in a booth with some air movement. I shoot ALL of my color evaluation cards IN THE BOOTH. These INCORRECT practices will NOT give you a true end result that you can count on. ESPECIALLY when you are worried about the actual color. AND...If you plan on clearing this spray out card....the color will be what the car will be....and that is where adjustments can be made to change the color....if desired.

I will write this. IF you are spraying it...and have NEVER shot a metallic color EVER. I am NOT writing that you CAN NOT do it....BECAUSE YOU CAN.....BUT....it will take you or who ever the inexperienced painter is to TAKE TIME and TEST and PRACTICE. AND I do not mean by shooting small parts....you have to slowly graduate to a large surface area equal to the hood, etc. SO...if you can get that looking RIGHT and no streaks and the metallics are laying out even...then that is when YOU KNOW you can paint the car.

With a color like this...you have to train yourself to be like a machine and BECOME VERY CONSISTENT. Becasue waving the gun around all '*****-nilly' will cause you to spray the paint and thus the metallics are NOT doing what they need to do...and you wonder why you have 5 gallons of color on the car and it still has streaks or splotchy spots. SO PRACTICE.

And in doing so it will be ULTRA IMPORTANT that you find the spot where the gun needs to be adjusted....because an improperly set-up gun and its fan and fluid setting...along with air pressure can make it darn near impossible to achieve good results....HENCE....TEST and PRACTICE. REMEMBER...just because the gun trigger can pull back all the way DOES NOT MEAN that you apply your basecoat and even the clear coat FULL TRIGGER. I set my guns up by turning the fluid control **** all the way in so the trigger will not pull back...then I turn it out to 2 to 2-1/2 full turns out...AND THAT IS ALL I DO.

Any problems or concerns when you do this testing...post your issues...BEFORE...I REPEAT....BEFORE you go and apply paint on the car. I KNOW that problems can occur during a paint job....but posting a concern/issue/problem due to dry spray,orange peel or heavy runs would let me know you did not TEST or practice at all. SO do not BE FOOLISH. BECAUSE ...I can tell you that 'thinking' that you are wasting time and money practicing over and over...is NOTHING to the amount of TIME and MONEY when you 'jump right in' and have a MAJOR problem. You will soon wish you had listened and could turn back time and do a do-over.

DUB

bradleyb66

Yes, with the help of the retired body guy. He actually owned a body shop for 25+ years, and has been painting cars since he was a teenager. He's already given me WAY more help than I expected.

Technically yes (silver), but it was 20+ years ago, and it was a 'winter beater', so I really wasn't worried about how it turned out (actually don't really remember how it turned out).

My body guy told me the EXACT same thing (almost verbatim!) - do you have a twin on the west coast?

I'm assuming that my current mentor will help (or if I beg, might even spray the color). It sounds like I should buy an extra quart for practice purposes?

So aside from metallic nuances, is there anything else unique about the steel cities gray?

And is there a particular brand/type of paint that you think would cover better? I think my local supply house carries Dupont and PPG, but I could also order it online. I think I would need something that will dry fairly quickly, as this will be shot in my garage, not a booth?

Thanks!
Brad

DUB

I do not know of anything that actually makes 'Steel Cities Gray' be any more different than any other silver shade metallic.

I use NEXA which is usually sold where PPG is. The toners are really strong and cover fast.

I believe the 'Steel Cities Gray' is in the historic archive section....and you would have to call PPG and SPECIFY that your want a NEXA 2K formula. (1-800-647-6050 and respond to the prompter and get into the 'color library')

Also...and I am sure you guy know this....because you are using a gravity feed gun...EACH TIME you spray a coat on your test panel....make sure you empty out your gun cup back into the mix in the bucket...because if you DON"T...the metallics will settle and you color WILL CHANGE. Same goes for when you go and paint it...pour what is left in the gun cup after each coat on the car..then when you go and apply another coat.....stir you mix VERY WELL again BEFORE you strain it in the gun cup for the next coat.

You need to make sure that you figure out some way of filtering air in and out. Painting in a garage and letting it get so foggy and full of overspray that you can not see is....RIDICULOUS! Just 'saying'. With all the work you are doing.....spraying in an environment that is not at its BEST....is like building a bad @ss race car and going out and buying re-tread tires for it. Makes no sense. AND...having some filtered air movement through the garage is HELPFUL to you paint job. And....I can say if you are looking for a paint that will dry FAST.....DO NOT use the NEXA...it works best when it has time...and by time I mean 10-20 minutes of flash time between coats...which means that it likes some air being pulled across it to help it out. And you can use a thinner that is faster than the current air temps at the time of spraying....but if you choose one that is fast ( for the NEXA)...you actually fight the basecoat more than if you chose a thinner that is SLOWER than the current air temps.

Some plastic. duct tape, cables and filters you can make a homemade booth that is clean in a short time. Or you can actually rent a booth...because I saw a member post a rent-able booth that they deliver.

DUB

bradleyb66

Not sure I understand this - is this something unique to the NEXA? I couldn't just walk into a supply store and have them mix up the color?

This might be the reason my body guy was leaning towards me painting this in my shop (40'x60') instead of the garage. I hadn't thought about air flow. The shop is just a little harder to heat up, and would be too dusty if the wind was blowing much.

DUB

Sometimes NOT because some of the really old paint formulas have to be called in to get. So these old formulas are in their 'historic archives'....from what I have experienced. I can look into it tomorrow because I have to call NEXA anyway.

This is why I wrote that you can make a plastic enclosure and use some filters and figure out the flow and how to get the fumes out safely. Or rent a booth that they ship to you. All depends in what you want to do. PLEASE... Stop and think about this....if you have not already. Does it not seem CRAZY that a person spend all the time getting the body right and the primer sanded perfectly....ONLY to paint in an environment that can allow large specks of crap to get in your paint....which is usually not too much of a problem because you can scuff/sand them out of the color coat and get that right....BUT...once you start to apply the clear coat....you are committed and if the conditions and what the painter is wearing and the strainers used and all 'that stuff' can cause for trash to get into the clear.

DUB

bradleyb66

OK DUB, I decided to fabricate a temporary booth for spraying the base and clear. It's going to be a simple 2x4 framed booth with plastic sheeting.

I procured an old furnace blower motor/fan from the scrap pile of our local HVAC company to ventilate the booth. I've read pro's and con's of using fans like these, due to the possibility of sparks while the fumes are getting sucked past the motor - so I was wondering if it would be better to blow the air 'into' the booth instead of out? I would need filters on both the input to the blower, and on the side of the booth, and would probably need to diffuse the input air, but am I going to run into any other problems doing it this way?

DUB

OBVIOUSLY you should be using an EXPLOSION PROOF FAN and BLADE.

YOUR CHOICE.

I checked into the color and NEXA does not have a formula for that old of a color....and when I talked with PPG ....they have a formula for DELSTAR ( acrylic enamel) CONCEPT and LACQUER.

BUT ...honestly....unless you are TOTALLY HUNG UP on having to have THIS SPECIFIC COLOR...I know for a fact that a color can be mixed and be so darn close no one would ever know. I do custom tinting on paint jobs and I know it can be done but it takes time a and a good eye for color.

ALSO....I know NEXA has a color deck that is quite extensive and you can fan the deck and find a color that when you place it near the Steel Cities Gray...it might match or need minor modifications to the formula to get it right.

AS for you question about the flow of air to the booth....I would have it draw air OUT of the 'booth' and NOT BLOW into it. ALSO...you do not want the air being exhausted out of the 'booth' to great due to the air flow (CFM's) your fan is really high great. You do not want a 'wind tunnel'....because that will cause for trash and dirt to be sucked into the booth past your intake filters. This will make your booth negative pressure.....so you would want your 'door' near the exhaust...so when you open the door...the air that is being drawn into the booth is being drawn right out. I have 16 20"x20" intake filters and 12 20"x20" EPA approved exhaust filters.

So balancing the intake and exhaust so you are getting are decent amount of air flow but nothing that will cause you sprinkling flour out of your hand it is gets drawn right to the exhaust fan. You are wanting to make sure that you have air flow so solvents and overspray will be caught by your filters and exit the 'booth'. I could actually get my air flow meter and see what my booth does when I am standing in it with the fan on.

DUB

bradleyb66

After talking to my body shop guy, we decided to go with paint from 'Restoration Shop' (TCP Global). He's used it on several cars and seemed to like it (he said it's made by DuPont), and when I talked to them on the phone, they said it wouldn't be a problem mixing that color (but it DID sound like they didn't have an exact formula either, but I'm not going for 100% accuracy, so it should be ok).

I'm still researching home-built paint booths....

Thanks for all of your help and insight! (helping us newbies on the forum must keep you pretty busy!)

DUB

Take time to stop and think what it will take for you to fabricate up you own booth....and intake/exhaust filters and air flow....versus renting a booth that they ship to you.


Whatever you do...JUST BE SAFE....and knowing you are out in California...and not nonworking if you are in a residential area or rural area...I can not comment any further on advising you what to do.

DID you look at this????
http://www.carcoonworkstation.com/#!...on-rental/cv5w

DUB

68notray

All good info DUB.

I would add that in my experience it's not usually a good idea to skimp on paint. So I gladly pay the higher cost of PPG. I compared exact formulas of PPG to Omni & the PPG base nearly completely covered a light gray primer to full Cardinal red on first coat, could still see thru Omni after 2 coats. Less coats to get your base right is BETTER. I recall the Restoration line is one of the cheapies.

I've also had great results with Southern Polyurethanes primers, epoxies, and clears.

Dt86

The guy I use for bodywork uses ppg deltron. Mention omni near him and you will hear swear words you havent heard in a long time. Mostly due to its lack of coverage.

DUB

I hate it when I have to use another paint system other than the NEXA that I use. I have been spoiled for so many years now...that I even cuss when I have to shoot PPG basecoats. Do not even get me started on any of the 'sub lines' within a manufactures system. I end up sounding like and acting like 'Yosemite Sam' and the 'Tasmanian Devil' at the same time. A scary sight.

Funny how when a person gets used to and spoiled with great results of a product...how any change what so ever can just 'tick' them off to no end.

DUB

Dt86

This sounds so tempting to see, but I think it is something that will leave me scarred for life.....

DUB

YES.....the 'visions' would forever haunt you.

DUB