TWINRAY

All I have now is what I used to buff lacquer, a rotary. I don't think this would be good to buff out my colorsanded clear. I'd like to spend not more than $200. I don't need a real HD model that will last forever as all I have scheduled are my 2 Corvettes and 2 other paint jobs scheduled in the near future . Thanks

DUB

??????????????? What I use is a regular buffer with speed control. I have a Makita...and I hate to tell you...I can get my clear ...CRYSTAL CLEAR......BUT....I also use my orbital. BUT...HONESTLY...by the time I use my orbital...on BLACK PAINT...there is NOT one swirl. I am using it to apply my final glaze.

I use wool pads and foam pads and get them right. BUT I know you can watch these videos out there that show how to use 'this and that'....which obviously is true..I guess....even thought they stop filming and show ends results.....which is often times the 'tricks of the trade'.

It is all about NOT being in a hurry. When i am compounding...I am NOT in any rush...I am calm and enjoy what I am doing and WATCH for the time when I DO NOT see sand scratches. When I see NO sand scratches...then I move on. When that stage is completed....wash the spatter off and move the the next step and so on and so on.

http://www.gem-industries.com/orbital.php

DUB

929nitro

I have a Makita buffer and a Flex 3401 and a Meguiar's orbital polisher. But since someone has been teaching me the proper way to use the Makita I can go start to finish with it as Dub said.

porchdog

i bought a flex . main reason is they last and most importantly they weigh under 5 lbs. at 64 that is a big plus for me .

TWINRAY

Would I be asking for trouble using what I have now?

porchdog

run one of those 10 lb'ers for a day and get back to me ...

DUB

The backing pad ...in my opinion...just would not cut it. For me it is way too rigid for the inverted curves. It can work...but care and being very watchful would be PARAMOUNT!!!

The weight....depending on how much it weighs....YEAH....that can come back and haunt you the next day. I have a really heavy industrial grade grinder that does not play around...and when I use it for a long time....I can tell the next day which muscles in my forearms have not been used for a while.

Also...my concern is the tools speed and if you have to tap the trigger to keep the spinning down....because there are many places where a variable speed buffer can aid you.

****NOT picking I am just 'saying'"******

This is a blanket statement for all....and NOT directed to anyone specifically or in reference to the buffer in question above.

When those who choose to do the work themselves...keep in mind all of the sanding and filling is just part of the process. BUT...having the tools to AID a person in doing the best job possible is also a part of the investment when you choose to do it yourself.

So...There is no award in doing a car by yourself the cheapest.....so do not wait on a trophy. Regardless it is mechanical, electrical, suspension, brakes, paint and body, etc. There is nothing but personal satisfaction...and that is it.

A person can use what they have for tools or buy what they need. The choice is OBVIOUSLY that person decision. If a person still thinking that it is not worth it. Add up what has been spent and see if it is STILL worth it. And if a person get so close to the FINISH LINE...and something goes wrong due to a tool not performing as it needs to....and ruins or damages what that person has worked so hard on. I would BET that if that person could turn back time and do it over...they would. I ONLY write this is because I have LIVED IT!!!!! IF a person has doubts....TEST IT first....regardless on the tool in question.

DUB

TWINRAY

Porchdog - is your concern the weight or the fact that mine lump is a rotary and not an orbital (DA)? I know FLEX is a VG unit but I don't need something that will last forever.

TWINRAY

DUB,

Just for buffing out clear coats, would you go then with a variable speed rotary OR an orbital. I use to be of the opinion orbitals were just for polishing and not for buffing out clear coats. I've used this monster on a base/clear with Chromabase and Dupont clear back in the 1990's when I didn't know of anything different and it came out VG. Now that's not saying you don't have to be real careful. If I'll get more learway (sp) with an orbital, then I'll get one. A few more bucks spent means nothing at this point.

DUB

I have used and use a variable speed rotary buffer. It has a soft backing pad and is not rigid like piece of plastic...so it has some flex to it. it also is Velcro...so i can center my wool pad and compound my a$$ off...then switch to my foam Velcro backed pad and do my glazing with it. Then I use my GEM orbital buffer which is quite heavy but it does not mater to me. So the buffer you posted a photo of is what I would sue ...except that maybe mine is variable speed and not knowing if your is variable speed which can be quite helpful....instead of tapping the trigger all the time when you get in tight spots and do not want to burn paint.

I know I have seen videos where the person used an orbital buffer for buffing/compounding and it seems to work. I have been using a rotary buffer for over 30 years and I can not see any benefit in me switching and buying another tool.....due to the process I use...I end up with a swirl free finish that is glossy.

I have the opportunity to use a rotary buffer that friend of mine has and I just might give it a try and see if I gain anything from using a newer designed rotary buffer for my compounding.

Using the buffer you have is fine...you just have to be careful...that is all.

DUB

TWINRAY

DUB, Thanks for the reply and the useful information. My buffer has 2 settings : Polish/Buffing at 1600 Rpm and Sanding at 2500 rpm. It has NO other variable feature. I've just looked at a Mother's (brand ) container of Compound for getting out #1500 and finer scratches. I'm sanding to #3000 before buffing and would get something finer but instructions on this says for newer paints, you want something that spins at 1200 rpm. Is that how you see it? That's fast enough to buff out a color sanded clear coat?

DUB

To be truthfully honest. I do not get caught up in the numbers of RPM's. Due to my buffer being what it is ...I can set it where I am comfortable with it and go over the area a few times if needed to get the scratches out. I would set it on the buffing setting.

I know that is not any help. Try it by tapping on the trigger and not letting the buffer get to full speed,...and working with it while it is cycling down...then tap the trigger again...and so on.

Speed (RPM's), pressure applied on the panel...travel speed, type of compound and the amount of surface area you are concentrating on while buffing all come into play.

This when that test panel you should have shot during your paint job would be VERY useful right about now. I know it is hind sight....but if you have concerns on buffing your car after all that hard work. What is stopping you in spraying up a sheet of metal so you can practice on it and NOT mess up your paint job.

Just 'saying'.

DUB

TWINRAY

Well, FWIW, I bought a new Dewalt Rotary. It's variable speed and provides for h& Loop pads unlike my old rotary. I also received today my 6 pack of Lake Country pads from Autogeek. Shipment feom Chemical guys is also scheduled to be received today. Car is sitting down to #2000 and I will proceed to #3000 Trizact before buffing. The backing plate shown isn't what came with the buffer but supposedly a better one I bought from AG.

porchdog

did you get the dewalt from chemical guys ? they have it on sale with pads and backing plate. or they did when i looked last .

TWINRAY

I got it from Home Depot. $179 + 8.625% tax delivered to home. I FIgured if it had a problem, I can just return it to the local HD and not incur shipping charges. 30 day no questions asked. I shopped around a bit and that was a good deal. Some places wanted $249. It's the 849x

Plus I wanted this pad kit and AG was running a SEMA deal with a percentage off.
http://www.autogeekmobile.net/lake-c...ccs-pack3.html

porchdog

good price. the sale they had was backing plate and 5 pads for 245.00 .

DUB

Obviously you can do as you wish....but honestly....You might wan to try buffing a small spot before you go and 3000 the whole car. You might see that it may not be required...depending on what you first product to compound is. THEN...sand a spot with the 3000 and buff it and see if you can actually tell which one was which one.

Just 'saying'.

DUB

20mercury

Nice buy from HD for a DeWalt tool, still on sale for that price this morning too. Thanks for the heads up.

Ok dumb question from a newbie:

Assume a rotary is simply rotary action, just spins in a consistent circle

Assume d/a is dual action, or this orbital action by gearing in the head.

So what is best to buff out a base/clear?

and what is best to buff out lacquer?

where to use which, and pros and cons of each?

Thanks for your patience for what is likely an obvious answer for you guys, LOL's!

TWINRAY

DUB, I figured I could go a little easier on the buffing (using a less agressive compound and pad) by using the Trizack 3000.

Regards, Fred

DUB

YES

YES

***PERSONAL/PROFESSIONAL OPINION***
I prefer to use a rotary. The orbital...seems to not have the muscle I need to get the clear to shine back up again without a lot of added effort. I am faster and achieve awesome results with my variable speed rotary buffer.

ONCE AGAIN...I have buffed out more lacquer jobs that I can remember...and I still prefer to use my variable speed rotary buffer. But I also know what compounds to use and how to use the buffer.


Both have their place in the paint detailing process.

Any buffer...rotary or orbital ...when in inexperienced hands can be dangerous to paint. Incorrect choice of compound or polish and running the tool and allowing the paint to get TOO HOT ( ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT on fresh lacquer)...and NOT watching what is going on. This type of detailing process is not just taking a tool and running it across a panel 'thinking' that it is being compounded and polished. It all depends on what level of finish a person is looking for...I guess.


I use my orbital polisher AFTER I have achieved the level of shine and I KNOW that all sand scratches are OUT of my clear coat or paint....THAT is when I go to my orbital...which is basically my last step. But I do use foam pads...because my initial buffing pad is a wool pad.

Fred, By no means am I trying to have you change what you feel comfortable with....do what makes you feel comfortable at this stage of the 'game'.

100% correct.....but....for me...taking the time to take it to 3000 grit is not worth it when I can buff it and have it looking the same. And with years of buffing under my belt......I can stop at 1500 grit and buff it....or take it to 2000. I have sanded it to much finer grits and it does speed up the buffing process....but....for me....it balances out the same so that is why I stop sanding at the grit that I do..and commence to buffing it. Because when it comes to buffing out paint...WATCHING what is going on is the MOST IMPORTANT PART....and knowing how to 'read' the paint in regards on KNOWING when to stop buffing an area because you have achieved that step in the process. That...in my opinion...is where most people MESS UP. They do not know what to look for and keep running a pad over an area that DOES NOT need it any longer and this added buffing is NOT making an improvement. And this is when burning paint or breaking though the clear coat can occur.

Which is why in many of my posts where I advise people who are painting their car...that they shoot up a test panel while shooting the car. OR shoot up a panel if they are NOT sure what to expect when buffing. In doing so....they NOW ahve a panel that they can practice on...so if they mess up...they KNOW how to change their procedure. OR...at least get accustomed to a power tool that they may never have used before...if that is the case.

DUB