1981 Rocker Channel & Body Mount Repair
 

1981 Body Lift for rocker channel and body mount repair.

I know there are many threads on body lifts, but I wanted to start my own. I thought this would be a good place to document my progress and to get help and feedback to questions as they come up. I've got a lot of them.

To start, I want to say this is an '81. nothing more, nothing less (though it is numbers matching). I'm not a professional. This car is not going to any shows. My goal with this car is to fix what needs to be fixed with while making it as OE as it can be and I've done a lot to the car already in terms of getting the engine and divetrain back to OE and in shape. Eventually I'd like to trade older to an 72 - although this car is growing on me. This is the car prior to it being stripped down.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...68501e6e5c.jpg

My objective (for this thread) is to lift the body up and off to replace the body mounts, repair the rocker channels, and A and B pillar posts. I'm planning on using inserts. The outcome is for the body to have solid mounting to the chassis. My constraints are that I'm working from my home two car garage with less than commercial equipment and tools. I'm not looking forward to this, but I'm committed to trying and learning.

The interior has been removed except the dash etc. and I'm removing the body mount bolts. I need to cut a few out as the nut started spinning (I'll deal with that later) then on to disconnecting everything - engine, front bumper clip, rear bumper...

#4 Mounts have been removed. #3 bolts are spinning but have easy access with the rear panel removed. Passenger side #2 bolt is removed but Drivers side is spinning. Both #1 bolts are spinning. The nose bolt is removed. Is it easier to cut these out with a sawsall or cutoff grinder?

Example of the #4 and #1 mounts.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...8e147f32e3.jpg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...908be20612.jpg

I'll get some post of #2 & #3 soon. They're pretty rusted out.

As I'm planning the lift, I'm debating on whether or not I'm doing to build a stand off the chassis or move it off to the side. Room is my biggest issue. I've seen some dolly plans out there, but wondered if anyone had a dolly that's worked well that was not a beast itself??

The other thing I'm thinking of doing is using a farm gate as sort of a gantry to evenly distribute the load. I'll be lifting from a 2 ton cherry picker. My thought was rather the load go to the lift hook that I would hook the gate so that it was horizontal and that I would strap the car to the gate above the car with the gate hooked to the hoist hook. Anyone do this??? They're only $100 and I thought if that would work than it might help reduce risk...

I'm a sucker for charcoal '81 vettes .... probably because I have one. when the body munas were replaced on my car we just cur the bolts out and used a harness and cherry picker to lift the body just a few inches off of the frame (enough to get the bolts and bushings in.

Wanted to add a few more photos. of the #2 and #3 posts.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...95714c6ca3.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c236ca0afd.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fd26b9d175.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d131b45225.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...43666c1529.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ca99dfe7e5.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9254613799.jpg

Not pretty, but it's not going to fix itself, so I'm working now on cleaning things up a bit. Then on to disconnecting everything. My strategy is to mark, photograph, and write down what I do step by step. I'm working on this when I can and so it's not the fastest process. All the parts I need should be arriving sometime this week or next, so once the body is off I should be able to get started. I need to build a body dolly yet. A couple areas that I'm not sure of is disconnecting the AC, tranny, and parking brake. I guess I should rephrase that...I'm not sure of the best place to disconnect each of those?? Feedback on disconnection points would be great. :thumbs:

I will very much enjoy the progression of this thread. You are doing my next project.

Thank you for making the mistakes before me so perhaps I won't make as many.

Haha! I've got a TON of help so far with folks on the forum! I'm hoping it won't be to bad. :eek:

This forum rocks. I haven't been as active in working on my car due to time and funding. I'm making a conscious choice to spend as much time as possible with my kids...10 and 12...as well as trying to get some home projects done. And don't count out family vacations.

Home projects and family vacations aren't very friendly to the car repair fund.

I do hope to perform my frame modifications this coming summer and perhaps tackle the frame swap next winter.

The good news is that I'm able to drive the hell out of my car in the meantime. Not the worst punishment in the world for not working on it...

Got the Rocker Channel insert kits (and a few other goodies, body mount set etc.) and thought I'd share a few pics to start. As I'm going through how I'm going to attempt this I had a few questions come up that I was hoping some folks that have done this repair might share their experience.

1. Dose the the overlapping front insert on the center insert change enough that you cannot get a good plug weld between the insert and the original channel, and does it mess with the #2 and #1 mount at all?

Your stacking so there's going to be a gap just behind the door post insert and then at the #1 mount. I think that spacers and the rubber mounts might account for this, but I wanted to make sure. There are NO instructions with any of this and it's important that this be done in the right sequence - I think.

2. I can't remember what 2 was at the moment, but I'm sure it will come back to me. :crazy:

Some other materials have been coming in as well for prep etc. I'm using some SEM weld-thru primer, Eastwood Converter, and Eastwood Encapsulation. I'm going to follow all this up in the areas I repair with Eastwood chassis paint - I've not ordered this yet. I was going to use POR15, but thought I'd give this stuff a shot and most of it comes in an aerosol. I've got to focus on getting the body off first, so more questions to come on this topic...

Links to a few of the products I'm going to try if anyone is interested.
http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-rust-converter.html
http://www.eastwood.com/rust-encapsulator.html
http://www.eastwood.com/extreme-chas...inish-set.html
https://www.semproducts.com/rust-and...ld-thru-primer

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...753702030d.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a2fb049df2.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7116a711bc.jpg

So, some progress this weekend. Removed the Radiator, shroud, and AC condenser. About all I have to do is disconnect the tranny (linkage, speedo, and wiring), e-brake, bake lines, steering, and bumpers. I've also got my body dolly built. When I'm done, I'll need to sell it for cheap to someone that could use it. I made it so that it can easily be broke-down.

Anyway, where and how exactly do I disconnect the e-brake...or what's the best method? Also, is it best to disconnect the brake lines from the or to disconnect the master cylinder reservoir itself? If I disconnect the whole assembly (two bolts I think?) do I need to worry about springs, fluids, or anything or can it just be slid out so that it's disconnected? If I go this route I don't think I'll have much wiggle room with the hardlines still attached? Feedback would be great! :thumbs:

I'm writing things down - every step...but I still get anxiety the further I take the car apart wondering if I'll ever get it back together correctly! :eek:


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ff6b093af2.jpg

Materials and right-side rocker channel set

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c1219ad65f.jpg

layout

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ded14829db.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9614c7bf91.jpg

final assembly. The support post are cut and need attached. Thanks to Alan 71 for his dwg.

No answers , you probably have already done this but

ok , first-up to disconnect the E-Brake just undo the 2 x1/2 inch nuts on the end of the cable that comes out the bottom of the tunnel ,where it hooks onto the cable that runs across the rear diff cross member.

master cylinder , you can just undo the 2 bolts holding it to the booster and gently pull it forward , there will be enough "give" in the hard lines to allow you to move it forward enough , Just be careful as there is a rod that sits inside that could fall out .Just take it out and tape it to the master so you wont loose it or forget to put it back in.

Now I have done what your going to ,but with a slight twist as I sourced two good condition complete rocker channels from a parts car I bought , so I got to remove the complete pair from a car (good practise ) .

I had to remove the seat belt mount areas from the 74 (donor) rockers to match the 69 (receiver !)

I have a thread that details what I have done to the car on Australian Corvettes Association , you have to look a little way in as the first stuff is about the motor /wheels etc. and for some reason all the pic links are broken but they work for the bodywork part.

http://www.australiancorvettes.com/p...hp?f=15&t=4884

Thanks! I've not gotten to the brakes lines and e-brake yet. Hopefully on the agenda this weekend...BUT, I may have to finally go shopping. Ugg. I'm planning the lift and Ive realized that the straps are WAY to long - for my lift method (2 ton cherry picker). So Im trying to determine if I mod them or go with ratchet straps.... definitely a game if inches!

I have seen guys tie a knot in the strap to shorten it and I have a mate who took his set to an auto upholsterer and got them shortened .

its scary watching your car coming apart , just keep reminding yourself that you cant leave it the way it is . It does help a bit.:ack:

how wide is that dolly ? you mention support posts but where are the posts going to actually touch the body . you need to support it away from the rocker areas to give you access around and at a good Height to get under there comfortably (your going to be sitting down there for a while ! )

The dolly is 51.5" - it works out that post can be put in place to fit right at the body mount locations. when working on a particular section I can remove the post...and I plan on supporting on the floor pans and back behind the battery/storage box area. My hope is that I'll be able to get in to where I need to be. Cut out the bad, blast it, rust preventor/converter, paint, weld in new, then prime and paint again...throw the body back on. That simple, right? :crazy:

As for the straps...I'm not sure what I want to do. The setup from the vendors is stupid expensive, especially when they don't come with any adjustment...so I'll likey leave them alone and send them back for a refund and just pick up some adjustable straps. I'll post some pics when I can. Basically, I need the lift to be about 5" from the top of the car to get the lift I need to clear the car. I cannot back the car out because of the hoist legs...so it needs to be slid out. Again, a game of inches.

Hi nix,
This is from your #3 post.

"Not pretty, but it's not going to fix itself,"

Everyone who has a screw driver and a wrench should have those words in big letters on a poster on the wall of the garage!!!!!

Good luck as you get underway…. well you're already under way so, carry on!
Regards,
Alan

your pics show on both sides the front section appears to be in good condition , that's around no.1 mount

If you don't mind I,d like to ask a few questions ,

Have you checked the middle of the rocker channel to see if its ok ?

Your plan is (if the're good ) to clean-up the rust and weld the new parts to them ?

the 2 ton cherry picker , that's an engine lift type unit ,where you can extend the main arm out ?

Have you seen this ,his replacement parts are in one piece , but his channel looked worse.

http://www.kearneycorvette.com/technical2.html.htm

with the removable posts on your dolly ,at each side of repair ,you realise you will have to not use 3 posts as you need to put the full length of the new channel in as one piece ! AND you will be working under the car with the corner/side of the dolly right in your way


have you seen my pics from my link ?

having seen how bad your channels are at all four points where they join the upright pillars, IF IT WAS MY CAR,

I wouldn't be attempting to lift THAT body by a single point hook , with four strap hooks into each end of those channels, the sideways force IMO could be bad for it. Last thing I would want is to distort what's left of those channels .

if you look into my link you will see what I did to lift it with no load on the lower part of the cage at all. You don't have to go to that extreme of course :D

yeah the first lot of pics has broken links so they don't show , just scroll down and you will get to the good ones about the same time as I start the repair

Will do. I do share the structural concern, but I'm hoping I'll be okay. Ive actually thought about throwing a date and my address out and ask all forum members to show up and help lift the body off! I wonder who'd show up?! Ha!

heres how I did mine.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...5916448e4d.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7bb92e0953.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...262eb98390.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...3f0b00b489.jpg

I had rust in the screen surround as well , so the bracing was probably a bit of overkill but made me feel more confident. :lol:

and these are what I put back in,


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7bcff41d84.jpg

the channels look rough as they have some rust proofing stuff on them , they cleaned up great.

Hi nix,
I wish I could offer some help but what you're doing is really beyond my abilities.
You wrote about your anxiety level and getting the car so far apart.
I DID experience that and for a LONG time because my pace was so slow.
I realized in the end that pictures, notes and drawings saved my hide… you can't have too many pictures to refer to.
You'll likely find that half the pictures you have should of had the camera moved 2" in order to get the detail to answer your question….. so take at least twice as many as you think you should!
Regards,
Alan

It's incredible how nice cars can look and still be rusty!

I agree about the pics , you cant have enough. what I could have done is put a small steel rule in the pics as well before cutting stuff away

the main difference between his car and yours Alan in regards to the repair needed is his steel floor is spot welded along the edge of his channel.

Just a small update - I managed to get everything on the front disconnected last weekend. All that's left is the rear bumper cover, tranny connections and parking brake. I think... I'm going to need to get some new front markers as the plastic post broke off while trying to get the quick thread nuts off...ugg.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a131b3c9c8.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...892c2e06f2.jpg

Cut out the body mount areas in both A and B pillars. Clean up the old steel. I painted mine with POR15 along with the rest of the birdcage. The front section of the 3 piece rocker channel fits up into the A pillar from the bottom, the rear section of the 3 piece rocker channel fits up into the B pillar, and then install the center channel beneath them and secure it with 2 bolts which there should be 2 removable plugs for the bolt holes in the door threshold. Weld the center channel to the existing old channel cleaning the areas that are to be welded from paint, etc. Do not weld the front or rear sections to the center channel or anywhere else yet. Do 1 side at a time. Now remove the bolts from the center channels and mount the body back onto the frame and shim the mounts to get good door gaps, trial and error to get it right. Once the body is tightened to the frame, weld the front sections through the kick panels and the rear section through the body mount access panel in the rear wheel wells. Remove any flammable materials, carpet, etc. near the kick panels before welding.


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...s/IMG_0546.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...s/IMG_0545.jpg

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http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...s/IMG_0538.jpg

@MIKE80 Thanks for the write-up on install. Most my thought has been around lift off, but looming is the actual repair and having everything line back up! Even MORE anxiety! LOL! I was wondering if I should weld the inserts on the channel first. I measured everything out and if you line up the mount holes everything dimensionally seems to be right-on. So, I was going to clean everything up (blast, paint, etc) then weld the assembly together then weld the assembly to the car starting with the channel then front and rear pillar inserts - using reference points on the assembly and the car... is there a big difference in welding the pillar inserts after the body is back down vs while it's off prior to re-assembly?

With the body off the frame, the birdcage is flexed and the body lines are not matched evenly. I did not weld the A and B pillars until the body was mounted/ shimmed. I followed the actual instructions from the manufacturer for the installation. They are made by Caledonia Corvettes in Michigan (616) 794-5026. I can email you the instructions if you want to message me your address.

Mike, PM'd. Thanks!

FWIW, I had my lift straps shortened. I have a ratchet set if I need them. Each strap is now 60" from the end of the loop to the end of the hook. Did a quick test fit and all seems to be good. I should get the clearance I need. :thumbs:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...77257ee661.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a4b70b266e.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...afe3224264.jpg

I'm a ways off from worrying about this, but I managed to break one of the tabs on the headlight housing. Should I hunt for a new one or is JB welding this acceptable? All the other bolts (5 on each) came out fine but this one...I didn't have good enough light when doing this so I was going purely on feel...and it was turning - ugg.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9472190576.jpg

In case you haven't seen them yet, here is a link to the rocker channel insert instructions: Instructions. It is basically what Mike80 mentioned.

I'm starting to think again about installing mine after letting the project sit for just over 8 years now. Ouch!

Hi nix,
Well! That's not very nice!
The frames are pretty expensive so I think I'd try a repair first before buying another.
You'll need to be careful reinstalling it so you don't put too much tension on the repair when you install the bolts in the other corners..
Regards,
Alan

I got (I think) everything unhooked except the rear bumper cover - ugg! Those screws are a beeotch! The two top corners. The heads have stripped and are still tight so can really get a sawsall in there or from the top.... any suggestions?????

Scheduled lift off is New Years Day!

Good Luck ,take it slow and steady , don't rush it ! and listen carefully

Success! :rock: It went really well actually. There were a few things I didn't have unhooked - alt power into the battery box, fuel vapor canister line, etc. Once that was done, pulled it up, moved the chassis out, then pulled the dolly in and set it down. :D

After my nerves calmed down I realize there's a lot of work to do. Frame and everything looks pretty good. The rocker channels actually look pretty good too except for the #2 and #3 mounts - they're destroyed.



https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...b3239b033f.jpg



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0259710d6b.jpg

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Cool , The Mrs gave you a hand !

glad it went well for you.

looking forward to seeing you tackle the mount areas.

Yep, she helped!

Glad to see that the body came off the frame for you.

As for your broken headlight actuator support. They can be welded.

I will keep an eye on this thread so if I can add any advice or tricks....I will do so.

DUB

I posted a new tread with this question but I'll ask on this one as well. The lift went well, no knocking around or anything and special attention was given to the distributor but when looking at the chassis once everything was off I noticed that the distributor is angled a bit. No sign of damage or scape marks on the firewall etc. - the car ran well with zero issues prior to starting the tear down. Is it supposed to be angled????
Attachment 48050050Attachment 48050049

If you have any concerns....because I can see what you are 'talking' about.

I would remove the distributor cap...turn the engine until you get to the number 1 firing position...then I would pull the distributor and manually spin it. If it has a bind in it...then it is tweaked.

If it is good then put it back in and set the timing when you can get to that point.

DUB

Just a few more photos. You can see how much room I don't have... I also found the build sheet. You can't read much from it but am able to get the dealer number etc. I've got to narrow down the zone...I need a black light. Kind of cool.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fb5b60d8a9.jpg

Pano pic

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...8ea200ad15.jpg

build sheet on the fuel tank.

Prior owner broke a headlight tab. I rewelded, (aluminum) the tab back into place and you literally couldn't tell the repair was made.

Now that everything is apart and my work area is somewhat organized, I had a few questions as I start planning the repair. The instructions are to weld the center insert into/onto the OE channel However, the aluminum rivets stick down about 1/4" that will prevent the insert from sitting flush...I'm planning on grinding these down a bit so that I can get a good fit and enough contact for the plug welds... or should I try to flatten them a bit? Looking for some advise on this.

interesting question . I just read the instructions given to you previously and there's no mention of what to do with the rivet(s) .But they say to weld it on so anything in the way has to go. As for how to get rid of them ,total removal or just grind them flat underneath ?

My answer would be to just grind them down to smooth again , why ? because when I removed my exact same rivets I damaged the glass at the top as they were stuck in the GLASS really well and would have still held the glass /metal as one if I had just smoothed them off . But i was removing all the steel unlike you .

Also if you just grind them down for now you can move forward and if you change your mind later its not to late to just drill down from the top , right through and put a new rivet in .

On the rivet issue. Two way of doing this.

1.) Grind down the rivet and drill it out completely. Then it can be replaced with another solid aluminum rivet just like the one you drilled out but with a longer shank on it. They make them that way. When you get the channel installed...drill out the hole in it and install the solid rivet and buck it.

2.). Take the time to make a template and make the template where these rivets are exposed. Transfer your template to the new channel and drill out holes so the rivets are now going into the new channel. The new channel will sit flush.

If you can not tell where to drill the holes in the new channel due to so much missing material at the end and you do not know how far to extend it. Then option 1 is the way I would go due to I have the correct rivets on hand.

DUB

No real new update, but I do have a question for some feedback. I'm looking at patching the hinge pillar post were it's rusted out with some new sheet steel. Should I be looking at butt joint or just lapping? Not easy to get in there and I probably could get away with not doing it, but while I'm in there I thought I'd try - if anything for the experience. Also, what gage would be best? I've got some #22 and some #16. The #22 seems to be about right...maybe a little thin. Your comments on experience here would be great. The first page I think has some photos of what I'm dealing with on the #3 mount (although cleaned up a bit better now.

Next I've got to remove the #2 & #3 frame cage mounts - I'm just going to cut them off and put new ones on.

just remember your new insert has to fit up in the pillar , it should be made for a snug fit to the pillar inside dimensions , so as to help with an exact fit ? not sure on that as I haven't seen one . As to butt welds or overlap , I chose full butt weld and bevelled the edges to get more weld on them . There is enough room to get some weld on the back side on the outer side of the pillar . the inner side of that area has 3 layers of steel . 1 is insert 2 is pillar 3 is the edge of the big plate that runs behind the seats , it folds around and is spot welded to pillar

In your pic what's left of your original factory "insert " although originally smaller than your replacemment has rust expanded and has to be taken out completely to make the room. This is where it gets dusty, dirty and just plain messy .Depending on how much strength is left in your PILLAR is how you can get rid of that extra rusted out steel.

How I did mine after dropping out what was left of the rocker channel(s), which left just the sides of the insert (no middle section) so now I had 4 pieces to remove . First up try a screw driver or similar tool GENTLY in the join from different angles ,keep watching the pillar steel for any signs of buckling ,sometimes I used a paint scraper under the end of the screw driver to reinforce against the force, I got a lot of separation by doing this way first. Then its out with the airdriven 3 inch grinder to get at the rest of it .

Depending on how the spot welder controller was feeling back in the day is to how many spot welds you need to get at . I know the AIM shows little X,s but in reality ,well I did two cars and they were way different , the 74 had way more than the 69 . an average of 6 spot welds each side of insert.

Wear good PPE as well , its a dirty job with lots of metal flying around when your grinding

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps6iganca3.jpg


you can see the 3 layers of steel plate ,
http://s173.photobucket.com/user/Baz...pbcjg.jpg.html

It is so hard to respond to what method of welding would work best for you ...so...photos are required. Not knowing if you are cutting out bad steel and then making a template and trying to get the new steel plate to fit in like a puzzle.....or place a larger piece over the hole you cut out. Need to know.

ALSO...using the crash adhesive can also be used for adding in plates of steel ....DEPENDING on what they are being used for.

Because prepping the steel and getting it free of rust so a weld-thru primer can be applied is no different than getting teh steel clean and ground down rough so an APPROVED epoxy adhesive can bond that plate in place and due to it is an epoxy base...it will NOT promote rust.

DUB

@bazza77 I've test fit the inserts and the inserts are not 'tight' from side to side. There's 1/16" - 3/32" on either side - for both the A and B pillar inserts. You can see it in your photos as well. I'm wondering if you're able to get a good weld in the plug weld slots? Did you shim or clamp tight? Again, not a show car, but I just want to make sure it's solid and goes back together so I can drive! :)

DUB - I'll get some pics up soon. I'm still working on cleaning everything up. Grinding down to clean steel then I'll blast what I can. My plan is to trace some paper templates where metal should be and then cut a steel plug to weld in place. I'm thinking that it will be easiest (as I don't weld for a living) to lap weld vs trying to get a perfect fit, but we'll see. In the case of lap welding plates in, I'm trying to determine if welding the plate in from the inside or outside of the pillar...or both maybe... I really wish I had some donor pillar ends to use. I've called around but no luck :(

I do have another question. I'll try and get this dim. from the other pillar but I wanted to confirm or get the dimension (if someone has this accessible) from the back of the pillar to the inner edge of the pillar along the center rocker channel end. It angles off on the inside and the to pillar edges are not at the same angle. The inside of the drivers side is shot and when I but my plate to weld and repair I want to make sure I get it right so the panel fits back on correctly... I'm probably not doing a good job of explaining this. I'll attach a quick sketch and hopefully it will make sense... I'm ASSuming that the pillar edges start up where the channel ends but I want to get some feedback


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d7d7da8caf.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...922/hGta4C.jpg




ok this is the inside of the right hand side of car but should be same as in mirror of left .

I actually used a set square where its black texta ,from bottom of inner hole (smaller of the two) butted up against the back wall of pillar ,then 3 inches down and its 3 and 8/10 s across the bottom .

heres some pics without the tape ,

you can see the row of Holes along the bottom ,that's where the pillar welded straight to the original rocker channel . The 5 holes up above were the original insert to pillar

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...922/0DlWgQ.jpg

view showing towards front of car ,that small tab had 4 welds straight to rocker channel

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...924/5cJsao.jpg

outside of pillar ,again 5 spot welds to channel, 5 above to insert

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...921/SfMT4y.jpg

and from inside , you can see where insert sat

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...923/PoalDr.jpg

not sure if these pics are helpful ,just trying to give you an idea what it did look like

You need to get the pics on here of what you have

the plug weld slots are indeed to attach your new insert to pillar, by the time you finish welding all the "plugs" you will have more weld than what the factory spot welded .

About the gaps you mentioned , this is where my repair differs as I used all original pieces and mine was a nice snug fit (as you would expect). I butt welded my pillar repair pieces in and bevelled the edges to get more weld on and I put weld on both sides where I could .

Using this repair kit is unchartered territory for me, others have said to shim but they also said to put the body back on before welding.



main thing is ,don't worry , there's enough guys on here that HAVE done this that will come along and help

I know I can get you pillar posts that weld to the rocker channel if you need them. I know someone who would cut them out of a birdcage...but they would not be a 'donor'.

As for the pieces that you are trying to slip into the factory posts....and having them be a bit loose...like you commented on.

I know having photos of these areas with the part NOT in place and then one with it installed will GREATLY help.

I know I PREFER that when I 'sleeve' a part of the frame or any steel component that is a basically a square box tube. I want the sleeve to fit in rather tight. Not so tight that I have to beat it to death to get it in and out...but tight enough so my areas where my welds are plug hole welds are going to be have the two pieces of metal touching.... IF at all possible.

I know I could go in with a turnbuckle...that would have two bolts coming off each end and I could turn these bolts and extend out its length...thus pushing the steel to where I need it. Or just have one of the long hex nuts and one bolt that I can turn the hex nut would be against the other side when I am turning it.

OR...you can add something to the ends of this type of tool that could allow you to spread it out also.

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If the part you are installing just will not work for you. That is when I would slit the steel with a cut-off wheel right at the 90 degree bend of the part and then re-weld it back a bit wider so it would fit tighter.

DUB

you can have my pieces if you think they will help , but without seeing what your cleaned up areas look like I would say they would just create more work .

then of course the shipping cost may make it a bit crazy to do :lol::lol:

Okay, so I have everything cleaned up. Still need to blast everything again but I'm down to good metal. As you can see there was a lot to cut out. Interestingly, the center channel is in good shape except for the #3 mounts...there gone. But no holes or deep rust anywhere through the rest of the channel. I'm also including some pictures of some cardboard mock-ups. My plan is to cut out the fill pieces get those tacked in then weld a lap plate over the outside. OR I could just weld plates on similar to how everything is mocked up and leave it at that... I think it should come out pretty good.

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HoneyNut Cheerios Template Making Kit :)

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what I've got going on and my thoughts moving forward. The insert does have about 3/32" on either side but we'll see once the repairs are made and the center insert is put in. I should also say that everything is supported measured and marked so I know if it's sagging or anything. This area of the car body seems to be pretty tough, but I didn't want to take any chances so what you can't see is all the supports! Safety!

Wow you have been busy , looking good. looks like the plate that comes in from behind the seats has rusted away as well , have you got pieces to weld that back onto pillar, it original was a curved piece and was spot welded to the pillar.

I would only weld one repair piece per wall , no need to but weld an exact shape piece in then weld a larger size one over the top. What ever technique is easier fo r you , but have you been practising butt welds on some scrap ? And make syre you can actually get the tip into the places you need it to go.Stick or mig ?
Wait for Dub to give his thoughts on this as well.

Looking good :thumbs:

I don't have a curved piece where the back plate is. I'm just going to make one. It seems to be in pretty good shape too except for that particular spot. I'm using a MIG welder. I have a fluxcore too, but that things a mess on thin stuff. The MIG I have does pretty good. I've been practicing a bit - not as much as I'd like as I don't have a lot of scrap steel around. If I butt weld I'd just take the slow stitch approach making sure it cools - no rush so no blow thru. :rock:

OK...NOW...I can honestly say that you need to call me ( if you care to do so)....the only reason why is so I do not have to type for a long time.

IF the metal you are going to patch the holes up with is the same gauge or a bit thicker...I prefer to...at all costs...cut out the area that will be filled in with the plate and NOT have it look like the outline of the state of Texas...but rather Colorado...IF at all possible. EVEN if I have to cut GOOD steel. It can make the time go faster....and keep in mind...I have to worry about time. So...this may not be concern for you.

I know I would make the plates I need to fix this #3 mount without thinking twice about it. And that is because I have done just that...and it looked just like yours.....assuming the underside of the rocker channel heading towards the #2 mount is good.

DUB

DUB, I'll give you a call tomorrow. I did get a laugh about TX v. CO! Kinda looks like Texas. I get what ur saying though. :D

So, I've mocked everything up, tacking my parts in place. Not the prettiest... Anyway, I've also put the center channel in and used 5/8" bolts where the guide holes are. Basically following the instructions. Everything pops into place, but... The #2 and #3 inserts do NOT sleeve tight into the pockets. There's an 1/8" gap all around. I don't think that I can fill the plug welds. My thought is to cut the insert walls of their base and once the center channel is welded in place then weld the pieces together in the pockets. I'm going to call the manufacture tomorrow to see if they have any insight but I'm not sure how guys did this? I'll get some pictures up soon to help. I've put a thin coat of primer using SEM weld thru were weld laps are. Keep in mind, I don't do this for a living so...


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How did you weld the inserts in? In pic one, you have the same gap that I have and I worry that I'll not be able to plug those - without burning through the thinner pillar metal. What settings did you use on your welder. I know this varies but I'm trying to get a good sense of where things need to be set at. Also the rear is just as bad and if I push the insert all the way back against the hinge pillar to get a good weld in the plug holes that the #3 mounting hole does not match up. So, two options here imo...I could push it back, weld it and grind out the mounting hole where it overlaps so that it's the shape it should be...OR I cut the bottom plate off weld it where it fits the mounting hole and then weld the sleeve part etc.... Would love to get your thoughts on this.

It's been 7 years since I did the job, so I don't remember gaps and how I had the welder setup. They may have tightened up after installing the body on frame, then welding the A and B pillars. I know I did not have to alter the inserts. Give the Manufacturer a call with your questions and let us know what they say.

Called Caledonia and talked to Gary. He was very helpful as I described my 'adventure' and the concerns I had with the gaps I was seeing with the pillar inserts. Basically he said to get the center channel insert welded in, and mount the car back up before welding the pillar inserts and that the bird cage will flex a bit and should close up the gaps. He was very emphatic about that. Mostly because (I think) of the body and how it sits on the dolly...though the way my dolly is built (mimicking the chassis mounting locations/specs) it should not be all that different. I will say that my dolly does not have the shims the chassis had so it's not sitting exactly the way it was on the car. It is however sitting better IMHO. Door gaps look better than before etc.

So that's that. Still some debate in my mind about how much the body is off from how I have it sitting on the dolly.

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This is the gap I'm referring to to the back of the insert. This is with the body mount holes lined up.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1860f2bb34.jpg

Obviously some clean up and some more welding but you get the idea. Again, I'm doing the best I can. Big difference in laying a bead on flat stock vs being contorted and vertical welding. o.O

I got the center channel in and everything so far seems to look pretty good. Making sure everything is primed and using SEM under lap joints etc. I wish the pillar channel looked better so I'm still working on grinding and welding. I'm learning that my garage is not a fabrication shop, harbor freight is awesome, and that my neighbors thin I'm crazy with all the grinding, welding, grinding... :crazy2:

Kind of a side note, but I was wondering the other day about the seem/adhesive sealer and thought I'd ask what's good to use? I have a tube of Dynatron 550. Made by 3M I think? Once things look good I need something to seal the back-rest and pillar, and just redo all the obvious seems around the area - including the hinge pillar and other areas that look like they need filled. Any recommendations? Also, can this stuff be used to seal the panel back up etc or do I need to use something different? A ways off from that but I try and get the stuff I'll need before I need it. I'll be looking for some 2-part when I re-adhere the nose panel between and forward of the lights...

this part is what would worry me , the body has shifted its shape . Especially when the guys selling the repair pieces say to put it back on before welding . I can understand you not wanting to move it around anymore than necessary but to weld it up and make it solid again , without doing all you can to do it the correct way is a huge risk .that's just my opinion but you have moved it once without any dramas ,now its more solid with the patches so putting it back on isn't really a big deal and the outcome has got to be less risky. When the gaps close up as stated by Gary then you will know you did it properly .

FWIW, what you have done looks good to me , you could end up cutting rust out of old vettes for a living :rock:

As for the sealer ? I'm waiting to see what's recommended as well :lol:

I took a break from the body this weekend and cleaned, panted, and rebuilt (new u-joints) the driveshaft. Looks pretty good - short project that made me feel like I got something accomplished! :thumbs:

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drive shaft looks nice. That's a good idea to break it up into smaller projects and by finishing each one you have a good sense of "achievement".

Just watch out for "scope creep" or "while I'm at it" :lol:

No joke on scope creep!!! It'll get ya for sure! Its so easy when everything is just right there to fix! I'm doing the brake lines and fuel lines...give it a good cleaning and a bit of chassis paint and call it good. Oh, and the plugs!! There MUCH easier to get too. Thats my line in the sand.
:rock:

Look on ebay. There are a lot of them for a pretty good price. The ones for the late 70's early 80's cars are much cheaper than the ones for '74 and earlier maodles.
Ken

An update. I took some time from the body and did some work on the chassis and a few other things - taking advantage of the body being off (good cleaning and paint, fuel lines, brake lines, spark plugs/wires, drive shaft u-joints diff snubber cushion, new #2 and #3 mounts/nuts, etc.) Back at the body this weekend and removed all the bad metal and prepping for wire brush, blast, and welding. Once the the passenger side is welded up I'm going to blast and repaint the core support...then it's back together! I'm equally as nervous as when I was prepping for the lift!


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This stuff works pretty good. I didn't want to paint the fuel/brake line bolts so I blasted them and re-coated them in black oxide.

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After being coated and being set to dry.

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New Packard wires. The front two are a PIA trying to get through the motor mounts.

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Cleaned but before wire brush etc.

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after paint...but before I replaced the #3 mount block with a new one.

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New snubber cushion

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Passenger #2

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Passenger #3

your welds look nice on that body mount ,coming along nicely .

Can you see now how some people get carried away and end up doing a lot more work on their cars than is really "necessary". Not saying its wrong because I do it all the time ! for example , there's no way I could leave that fuel tank as is ,it would rust treated and bright silver or body colour painted by now :lol:

JB Weld will not work here. It can be TIG'd back if you have the part that is missing in the photo.

I can see you used SPICER U-joints.:thumbs:

Hopefully you marked the drive shaft so you know which end to put your transmission yoke on and how it as to also go on the u-joint correctly.

Glad you got the welding done....I know you have to feel good about that.

DUB

The tank is driving me crazy...it's in good shape really. Just some light surface rust...but ITS RIGHT THERE!!! I reasoned that I could easily drop the take once the body is on and I've had nor seen any issues with it. I'm REALLY trying to draw the line in the sand somewhere. :crazy:

Yep! :thumbs: I took pictures so I knew how everything was oriented. The weight and sticker were toward the back. As far as the joints...I think it can only go on one way? Or did I miss something...my luck I'll take my maiden voyage down the driveway and CLUNK. :eek:

I do feel much better about the welding. I've still got a bit left, but I kind of have a feel for how it's going. I did notice that metal temp played more of a role in a good weld than I'd thought. I noticed that the warmer the frame was (a little propane) the better the weld on the mounts - with the garage temp being 35-40. It was cold that day. The cage and the thinner metal is still a bit of a challenge for me.

draw the line after the tank :lol:. if your exhaust is old you will have trouble getting it out of the way to drop the tank when its all back together .are you putting new rubber hoses on there now ?

with the uni's , they swivel nice and freely ?

YES...the universal joint can only go in one way. But how your yoke is attached and on which end can make a difference in a vibration or not.

YES..On some thick metals..I also pre-heat the metal to make my welds get really good penetration if I have a concern. I have a serious welder that can weld really thick metal...but getting it out and set-up sometimes is not worth it when I can warm up the steel with my torch and get done. It all depends on what I am welding and how much welding I need to do.

DUB

Ok, so back to work on the rocker channels...yay! :ack: I will say that this side seems to be going much better. Either it was not as bad, or I'm getting a bit better. :thumbs: I tried to get more Colorado cuts vs. Texas which was a big help and made the fit and weld much cleaner. Next is prepping and welding in the center channel and then it's really ready to go back together. Almost!?


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There are a few things I really want to make I do before everything goes back together - mostly sealing everything back up. I've drilled out and re-riveted all the old rivets that looked suspect. Mostly around the floorpans. I've got some 3M body sealant that I'll use to reseal the back panel and some other areas in the interior. I'd also like to seal the exterior part of the back panel and around the #3 pockets where the glass meets etc (you can see the area in the picture that I want to pull back a bit and squirt some new adhesive in). I've got the front panel near the front headlights I need to do and was going to use the Fusor product. Any suggestions on what I should use in these areas???? Another question...As I plan my reassembly, what do I use to put the bumper clips back on? They sell some clips but I'm not sure if those work with the brackets that I still have existing in my bumper clips or not? Or if I should just go get some bolts? Some suggestions on this would be great too! :rock:

are you talking about the front panel being the big headlight support panel ? if so I used Lord Fusor 116 . I have about 3/4 of a tube left but I have to throw it out as its too old. The new version is T21 , just check that is correct as I haven't used or bought any yet. I have a headlight bar to go on as well !!! I have had no problems with the 116 except you need strong hands to get it out of the tube !!!

I also dug out the old dried up sealer and put new fresh stuff where I could ,mainly inside behind the seat area(s).

I just bought new bumper bracing for both ends as I snapped off most of mine taking it apart. I went with the idea that you needed a long brace with studs coming off to give support along the entire length of the flange faces . I think it was 4 pieces for the back and 4 for front .I never bothered for the stainless , I figured the originals lasted 38 years until I messed with them and just zinc plated new ones will do the same .Plus I don't plan on doing that again :)

the Texas vs Colarado is just a size (of patch plate) comparison thing ?

I use the SEM BEIGE catalyzed flexible seam sealer where I seal up stuff...but that is just me.

I also use the SEM general purpose adhesive to bond the headlight support beam back in. I like it because it is epoxy based and that alone in itself...when properly prepped and applied ...stops rust from developing. Once again...that is just me.

If you need a gun for the SEM products...from what I was told by a friend who worked for SEM...that the area rep in your area can loan you the gun to apply it.

You lost me on the 'bumper clips'...post a photo of what you are referring to.

AS as for the reference pertaining to 'Texas' and 'Colorado'...it is referrign to the shape of those states...NOT the size of them.

DUB

the Lord Fusor also has the rust preventative formula

I thought he was saying big/small as in TEXAS everything is BIG .:lol:


the bumper clips I took for the bumper cover to body attaching pieces

:lol: Yep... the shape more than the size! Easier to cut and weld strait edges. Colorado is nice and straight...Texas is all over. Both great States BTW! The bumper cover to the body is what I'm talking about. All those bolts either sheered off or I cut them off. That part was the biggest PIA!!! ZIP has a kit that has a bolt stud on a short piece of metal. I think it says that they are designed to work without the OE metal (riveted to the bumper cover that the studs were in originally). I just thought maybe some regular bolts would work??? If so, any thought on size??? Or I remove the rivets and use the clip things that ZIP has...

I'll have to do more research on the lord fusor and SEM products. I see a lot of people talk about the fusor (which is a two part?). I've been using the SEM primers and has been great so far. I'm going to lean on Again, thanks for all the input. :cheers:

Believe it or not your comments and feedback releives some of the anxiety of trudging forward! Makes me feel that I'm not doing this alone! :thumbs:
guys as for what to use. That part will come soon enough for sure!

AH , ok :lol:

The Fusor is a two part but you just need a normal caulking gun , it has a mixing tube that connects to it that does the mix (and what causes it to be so hard to push out ). like I said it works fine so far , been close to three years on my 77 .

is this what you are looking at for the clips,

http://www.zip-corvette.com/80-82-fr...ainer-kit.html

the ones I used were the longer flat bar with more studs on each one. Cant see why individual bolts wouldn't work ,except you have lots of individual pieces to fall out and get stuck in the wrong spot :lol: but that's nothing a bit of tape wont fix. maybe :lol:

DUB These are the bolts I was referring to. Not sure of the easiest solution for reinstalling. The ZIP kit or just find some similar bolts? Either way, is it a good idea to drill out the rivets and tac weld som new bolts? :shrug: I should mention that the braces seem to be in good shape. Its the last two bolts on each end that torqued off or starting spinning and needed cut off. The others seem okay but are rusty at the ends. I don't really want to reuse them. The rear has the braces but no bolts. Of all the the things needed to split the car, getting these covers off were the worst. I just hope its not as bad going back together. :ack:
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