phipp85

Looking for opinions and feedback from anyone who has ran any combination of Cobalt Friction XR1 and XR2 pads. Please list the tire used and which track you were running. I'm most likely going to try XR1 front and XR2 rear on my C6Z with no aero pretty much exclusively on Hoosier A's. I may run a true slick sometimes but don't want to pick a pad based off of that tire selection. I'd like to get a few thoughts from others to keep me from having a mountain of different pads.

For the the sake of meaningful discussion let's avoid phrases such as "they suck" or "car stops fine, no issues".

I'm also considering PFC 01 and Carbotech XP20 but I haven't really finished my research on those compounds yet. I'm coming from the CCB Z07 brakes and 90% of my track time has been on some variant of that setup. Unfourtunatly I have ignored most iron brake discussions for the past few years Thanks in advance for the information and hopefully helping me save some money.

63Corvette

I vintage race a 63 Z06. Unfortunately, it is much slower than your C6Z, and has very different handling, braking and traction issues than your car, so it is not a direct comparison. I use XR1s front and XR2s rear, a good combo. I have also used PFC-01 pads and I do like the Cobalt Friction pads better, as they have better initial bite and better (smoother) release. The Cobalt pads last longer, but are more expensive. Andy Linn of Cobalt Friction is very easy to work with, which is important when you are racing a 50 year old car. I run at CoTA, IMS, TWS, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Elkhart Lake, Road Atlanta, Sebring, and most other tracks. I run Goodyear and Hoosier treaded racing tires (not full slicks).

YYZ06

I’ve been running Cobalt Friction pads for years. I really appreciate not having to go through an elaborate bedding process for the pads. I’ve found they wear better if you give them a light heat cycle (either on the street or a session in a beginner group) before driving all out but it isn’t necessary. I use XR1s on both front and rear (stock brake calipers on C5 Z06) and run Pirelli DH scrubs. I tend to trail brake a lot and don’t have any issue with rear wheel lock-up. I don’t see the need to have XR2s on the rear.

Cobalts are extremely easy on rotors. I’ve had the same DBA 2-piece rotors for two years and they are not at the minimum material thickness yet however, they are extremely heat checked. I rotate the pads (swap inboard to outboard) after each day and usually get about three weekends of use. They will taper with stock (floating) calipers if they are not rotated. I regularly run the tracks in southern Michigan (Grattan, Gingerman, Waterford Hills) as well as Mid-Ohio.

I gave the PFC 01’s a try at Mid-Ohio a couple years ago but evidently didn’t give them enough/proper bedding time. While I liked their performance, they started building up pad material in splotches on the rotors (I should have taken a picture). After three sessions they were chattering like crazy going into China Beach (135 – 140 mph), not a pleasant feeling. At lunch, I put a brand new set of XR1s (no bedding) and ran the rest of the day with no issues.

A agree with 63Corvette. Andy Lin is great to work with and very knowledgeable. I usually buy mine direct through Cobalt. Cobalt usually has a sale around Christmas where they take 10-15% off the price, add a liter of Motul brake fluid (or some swag) and offer free shipping.

C5 Hardtop

Big Cobalt fanboy here. With the Cobalts I liked the release during trail braking and I had more confidence at my braking points because the consistency and feel of the initial bite and modulation was better compared to the Carbotechs.
I was saving money using Carbotech and used them for years. Can't comment on PFC, but Carbotech is good for the money.

phipp85

The 63 is certainly a little different than mine for sure I'm sure you have some interesting challenges to overcome tracking a car of that age. All experience is relevant to me because I'm most concerned with things that can't really be measured such as release characteristics.

I do trail brake quite a bit as well. The no bedding process is interesting, not sure I could throw new pads on and go dive bomb a heavy brake zone right away lol. I say XR2 for the rear since I have no aero and XR1 on the rear may be too sharp of bite at the initial pedal application in some situations. Such as having to get on the brake while you still have a tiny bit of steering input.

What compounds of Carbotech and Cobalt did you use? A good friend of mine has used Carbotech for many many years and strongly recommends them.

I'll be running these pads on an AP kit that accepts 25mm fronts so I may be able to get pretty good life out of them.

Thanks for the info so far everyone.

blkbrd69

I did like the XR1-2 combo. with C6Z stock calipers. They lasted much better than any of the Carbotechs and didn't seem as harsh as the Hawks.

Using a "real" caliper, take a look into the Raybestos ST-47-43 really like them with my Stoptechs.

phipp85

I have had a few others suggest the 43's.

Any issues with fade during extended sessions on the Cobalts or the Raybestos? What tire? What track?

X25

I never had ST43s fade, but actually XR1s are the only pads I've ever had fade on one of my track cars (on my 1LE). This actually happened to another fellow Camaro forum member as well, and he also thought something else must be wrong since XR1s are highly recommended by vendors.

Here is my video with the fade issue with XR1s:


I'd highly recommend Raybestos pads. I'm currently using ST47/45 combo on iron C7 Z06 brakes.

phipp85

Intresting(and surprising). Did you run them anymore that day and have it happen again? How many laps had you ran prior to your video clip? Thanks for the info.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

You pumped the pedal and it came back? Did the pedal go to the floor? If so, that isn't pointing toward pad fade that could be a couple things....pad knock back or it could also be the calipers are over heating and your are on the verge of cooking the caliper.

With any race pad they do have a 'temp range' that they like to be in. On the colder side of things you can get poor stopping performance or you can get into high wear rates. At the same time if the pad gets to hot you can see increased wear rate and a possibility of glazing the pads if they get to hot. Guess I would need a little more info before I threw the pads under the bus and blamed them.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Personally we have been big Cobalt Friction supporters for a long time now. We started with Andy Lin back in 2005 and have made it standard on every race car and every track car we build.

Depends on what you like as a driver and also what you have for tires on the car as to what "flavor" of pad you might want to use. Most of the Corvette's we typically ran a square pad setup on XR1/XR1 or XR2/XR2 pads. For street or DOT R tires, the 2/2 setup seemed to work pretty good and on slicks we generally run a 1/1 or 1/2 again depending on driver feedback.

phipp85

I run Hoosier A's the majority of the time 295 or 315 front 345 rear. 2011 Z06 with no aero other than the ZR1 bits.

Whats the biggest difference between the XR1 and XR2? I'll be hauling it down from low 160's to 60 on the back straight with two other decent brake zones throughout the lap(Road Atlanta). Figured the XR1 was a must up front.

Dubstep Shep

Love the cobalts. Feel of the pads aside, they perform pretty well. I'm running XR2s with KNS 4K rotors, Hoosier A6 scrubs, PFADT coilovers, and about 500rwhp in my C6Z. I have 3" ducts running from my front grill to the rotors. I haven't had any brake fade, but I'm running 20 minute HPDE sessions, usually stuck in some sort of traffic.

The only real problem is the taper, but rotating them solves that issue nicely.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Taper would be a caliper strength / piston size issue typically.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

XR1's have a higher initial bite torque and a stronger torque curve over the XR2's. So if the tire can not support it, you might run into lock up issues. A's typically have a good foot print so you shouldn't have an issue with XR1's at the front...but again depends on the driver too.

Dubstep Shep

And I'm running stock calipers, so that sounds about right lol.

phipp85

Understood. I personally would prefer to have more brake than tire, plus that's what I'm used to anyway. I've always had to be careful to stay out of ABS in certain brake zones.
Is there a large difference in the heat capacity of the two pads? I give the brakes a solid workout. Not too much loafing around the track for me. 30 minute sessions sometimes longer.
Running AP setup front and rear so I don't expect too many taper issues. 372mm front 340mm rear

phipp85

Same brake duct setup here, may go to 4" if needed. Have you ran any other pads for comparison?

X25

I ran OEM the Brembo brake setup with Quantum full brake ducting and XP16, ST43, and XR1/2, with fresh RBF 600 each time, before switching to StopTech BBK, and the only one that caused fade was XR1. It failed the first track day I tried them on, so it wasn't caused by worn out pads, either.

Now, is it pad that fades? Is it the fluid? Caliper overheating? I couldn't care less. Something with those pads are wrong, perhaps it's transmitting heat too fast onto the calipers. It feels good, has a good bite, similar to ST47 as far as I could tell, but it ended up causing fade, whereas Raybestos pads did not at the same track, in very similar conditions, same tires. My opinion was further solidified when others racing with Camaros also have chimed in, and talked about similar experiences.

Here is my build thread where I journaled my testing and experience with that car:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375406

Now, why should you care about Camaro? It is much heavier, and is harder on brakes at the track. If you would like to stress-test brake systems, it's a great platform; it would reveal issues where you would never see on, say, a Miata.

You are forewarned : )

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Well something was going on but I also know on our 2013 WC GTS Camaro with a StopTech front 4 piston/14" setup and XR1 front and XR3 rears...car never had an issue in hour long door to door competition.




Probably not the best highlight as he got hit by a Porsche during the race...but still Long Beach is one of the hardest tracks on a braking system I know of in the tracks we go to.

Should have a decent line of pics here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-cama...ace-build.html

Maybe it was a bad pad, maybe a bad batch....but I'm still going to say if you are pumping the brakes on the car that isn't pad fade, that is to much heat in the system.