ChrisUlrich

probably been discussed a bunch already but most of the comparisons are about acceleration.

I want to know more about handling and braking. How difficult is it for a base C6 (LS3 model) to keep up with a C7 Z around a track.

Assume the C7 Z is stock.

Would a cam only LS3 with shock, sways, and C6 Z brakes keep up with a C7 Z?

I know a 480ish whp LS3 can keep it pretty close in a straight line. But what about in the twisties?

turboed350z

Driver mod.

Most vette owners cant drive their base c6 stock to the limit and already wants to mod it. Doesnt matter what car the other guy is in, if he cant drive, you will always have an advantage.

LMB-Z

No,no and no. Lots of other things go into a Z besides hp...shocks, sways, suspension in general...plus hp. Also weight as the Z has aluminum frame.

Vettemuscle1

are you talking z51 or z06.

95rtturbo

Agreed. A base C6 is going to need a HELL of a lot to keep up with a C7Z around a track, given equal drivers.

Vettemuscle1

ok assuming were talking z06 and not z51 how about tire size and those pure nasty carbon brakes!

i mean braking and contact patch alone would put the z so far ahead of the base on a road course

bgspot

In short, the 2 cars are not in the same class. The Z06 was bred to be a track star. I won't say you can't bring a base ls3 close to c7z level...but dam thats a tall order. Not to mention some serious funds. Good luck

cclive

I can't imagine how a C6 could keep up with a C7 Z06 as the Z has beaten cars like McLarens and Ferraris on the track.

wayback

While I love my C6 base with mods no way it would keep up with a C7 Z on a track. Two very different cars made for different purposes.

ChrisUlrich

Obviously the C7 Z is a superior car from factory, no question about it.

Matching a base C6 to a C7 Z in the acceleration category is veeeery simple.

It just made sense to me that top of the line shocks and sways would get the handling of a C6 pretty close to a C7.

i know a C6 Z without carbon brakes can stop from 60mph in just over 100 feet while a C7 Z is just under 100ft. Slightly modify the C6s brakes and now we have a contest.

the only thing I'm curious on is handling. People shut out a modified suspension on a C6 but I wanna know if there's any proof other. A C6 Carbon Z flies around the track. You can modify a base C6 to handle as good or better than a Carbon. Why is the C7 Z so out of reach?

C6 LS3 modified vs C7 Z Stock

Vettemuscle1

you could build the car to get there. but at what cost is that worth doing? you're essentially talking about building a base c6 into a race car to keep up with a factory produced c7.

you have to many variables. how bout you look at c6 z06 track times compared to c7 z06 track times and thatll answer your question.

09_BSM_Z51

The magnetic ride and AH/TC technology is really the only part of the C7z that can't be equaled IMO. Coilovers will narrow the margin, but no way the C6 or even c6z would be as easy to drive around the track as the C7z. I'm positive a C6Z on track could take a C7Z with the right combination of mods for a reasonable amount of money. The regular C6 is gonna take a lot more. Doable, but probably not worth it.

Also, check out the history of active suspensions from the late 80's and early 90's used in Formula 1. No driver, no matter the skill could overcome the computer controlled cars once those cars were correctly set up. Or even come close. It was game changing technology that was banned in 1993 when Williams and McLaren perfected it. It's only now that the ideas are being correctly used in road going cars.

Of course, what GM is using on the C7 is nothing close to what was being used then, I'm just using it as an example of how active vs passive worked out in the ultimate form of road racing and how it's going to change modern suspensions.

Suns_PSD

440+ rwhp, sticky tires, some sway bars, good aftermarket brakes all around, aggressive alignment = no problem at all.

I speak from personal experience.

Good luck.

Garry in AZ

The other comments about the drivers skill level are very accurate. But lets say we put the Stig in both cars.

Okay, for the sake of argument, lets say you had a base C6 with enough horsepower to keep up in a straight line. This means some sort of forced induction, and other engine mods. And lets also say you installed improved brakes, that "might" be as good as the C7 Z06's. Just these mods would have likely cost 15-20K or more.

You are still likely to have slower lap times, simply because the Z06 is lighter, and has more rubber on the ground. The reduced weight allows the car to change direction quicker with less understeer, brake later, and deliver higher G forces in all directions. You aren't going to keep up with a C7 Z06 with just basic suspension mods on a C6. If you want to look at it another way, a C6 Grand Sport has the same brakes as a C6 Z06, and very similar suspension parts. Same width tires too. But a 500HP GS still won't lap as quickly as a Z06.

That said, I'm sure that given enough time and money, a base C6 could be turned into a track car capable of running with a new Z06, but it's likely going to cost close to what the Z06 does by the time you get there. And it will be a highly modified track focused car, likely less reliable, hard to drive on the street, with no warranty. Sure, you might be able to do it, but it doesn't make much sense.

Garry

Vettemuscle1

that is... until the C7 overheats and the C6 goes flying by. haha

Suns_PSD

As tires get wider, the improvements in traction are less because you have the same weight of the car, spread over more rubber. You also lose acceleration and other performance as the tires get heavier. A Miata with 215 width tires is as fast as a Z06 thru the turns.

The C7Z is heavier than a base C6, by a lot.

A C6 base doesn't need C7Z sized brakes to stop as well because it isn't going as fast. If you buy good rotors with race pads and fluid it will be sufficient.

Good set up and a modest bump in power will have you competitive.

The biggest knock on the base LS3 is if you go with slicks the motor will run out of oil on long left hand turns.

And using the example of a pro driver is silly because you are not. At the amateur level you could easily be 1-2% a better driver and close the gap between car performance whereas a pro gets 100% out of every car.

LSX228R

On a track? It wouldn't be worth putting that about of money into a base.
In a straight line? a&a/ecs blower kit should get the job done

turboed350z

If we're comparing paper numbers. Im sure you strip the c6 and the power to weight ratio will dramatically change. Also would help with handling. Get rid of the crappy run flats and stick on real tires and the gap closes even more.

Can we do it? Sure, can it be done for less than the z07? Sure, would it be as nice or comfortable or reliable? Probably not.

Comparing mod to stock is dumb. If your goal is to beat a z07, learn to drive better. Other wise, anything can happen on paper.

Vettemuscle1

exactly. like mentioned above you can make a miata run with a vette on the track. had a buddy who had a neon that would kill vettes through the whole course but theyd over take him on the straight and hed get it back in the twisties (power:weight).

Suns_PSD

Unfortunately, a lot of guys have never been to the track and they get these wild ideas based on magazine shoot outs and stuff. You can only use so much power at the track because if you utilize the track correctly there isn't a whole lot of traction left over for hard acceleration accept in a few spots.

Stock for stock, any C7 is going to beat a base C6 quite handily. But I think the question is: "Can you take your $26K car and for a reasonable input of time and cash and run with your buddy in his new stock $100K supercar?" The answer is yes.

Of course a 10 year old C6 is not still on crappy runflats, even if they don't run at the track.

If you squeeze the absolute widest (but correct width for your rims) R888s on that car you can, add as much negative camber as it will take, buy some used sway bars off CF.com, and maybe spend your time and money getting some of the easiest hp (bolt-ons and cam ought to do it), and then brakes which to do right are the most expensive part of the equation but classified is your friend, absolutely YES a good driver can comfortably run with a new stock Z7Z driven by another decent to good driver

When you make your tires way wider, but the car weighs the same, the car is not pushing down on each square inch of the tires as hard and the traction does not increase proportionally to tire width increase. Most of the increase comes from acceleration at low speeds cause that weight does transfer greatly.

I have been at the track with MUCH higher hp cars and if you drive out of the turn correctly the much faster car will pull you by 1-2 car lengths on a fast straightaway but because they are going faster they hit their brakes sooner and you get to apply your brakes a moment later and you suck right back up to them. They took 200 yards to make up 15' on you gain back 20' in the blink of an eye.

And a C7Z probably weighs 400-500# more than a C6 base, that's no joke.