Aguita

Hello, I have a 06 that i have some plans on adding some bolt ons in order to get more power, Currently i have Halltech Intake,Axle Back exhaust and a tune. My plans are to add the following.

1 3/4 Headers
MSD Intake Manifold Ported
Stock TB Ported or a NW TB ( Still Thinking which way to go)
Retune

Or

Headers
Stock Intake Manifold Ported
Stock TB ported
Retune

I know the second option prolly wont give good gains but they should with the headers and tune hits over 30hp..

But my issue is i dont want to add a cam to the car, yes i know that is prolly what is giving most HP but i dont want to for now and near future...

So is the stock cam good up to how many hp!? will those mods be too much for stock cam?!

I dyno the car stock and it put down 440 SAE on a dynojet on a hot day..

How much you think i can produce with those mods?!

thanks in advance

outhouse

You wont build much power. Things like stock intake and headers are matched to the stock cam. I would not waist my money unless you go all in.


Those same mods on a cam that will use them will bring larger gains.

Unreal

Heads first before any of that other stuff.

Dan_the_C5_Man

My build so far (and most likely will not change unless I suffer a cam / lifter failure) -

* Stock cam
* Kooks 1-7/8 headers with cat
* MSD manifold
* Mammo ported stock 90mm TB
* Callaway Honker intake
* AHP heads milled .020 with exhaust-side only clean up
* YT roller rockers / PSI 1511 springs / stock intake and exhaust valves.
* Very conservative tune (essentially only accounting for improved airflow, retaining the factory PE target values (e.g. on the rich side)).

Baseline of 472 RWHP at 15,000 miles, dead-stock including original air filter (note that my baseline is higher than average due to the factory 2011 exhaust config - these engines make about 10 to 12 more HP than non-2011 cars).

I will take it back to this same dyno sometime next week for a validation of HP and Tq improvements.

redbird555

Personally I agree on getting the heads fixed first.

After that though I think both plans leave a lot on the table. Stock ls7 intake leaves a lot to be desired so if you want the most bolt on hp possible, chuck it. Also it's pretty pointless to bolt a 102 intake down and keep a 90mm to so chuck that too.

The answer there is an msd 102 ported. You should gain a solid 20whp from a ported msd on a stock bolt on motor.

1-3/4 headers are tiny on an ls7. Normally headers only gain about 10whp on these cars but since you have now opened up the intake a bit more they will help much more. I have never seen an ls lose power with bigger headers much less any tq. On a bone stock ls3 2" have been shown to make more hp than any other smaller size and they lose no tq. If you can afford a good set of headers I would absolutely go no smaller than 2", 1-7/8 is a bare min.

My thing is bolt on power, I enjoy optimizing a car to eveything it can be before doing internal work and the last 2 ls cars I have done this way have gone on to beat cammed cars which is great to watch. All the little mods that "aren't" worth it add up in the end and make quite the difference.

Currently I'm working on doing this all again to my stock ls7 and I expect the motor all said and don to be in the 540whp range stock h/c

redbird555

I watched my old car pick up 20whp from a meziere ewp and ati UD pulley. Those 2 mods according to most people are never worth it. But yet with that gain you're already halfway to the power of a cam swap. Is it cost effective? No, but it's more so about having the car optimized for what it is.

Also don't let anyone tell you an ati 10% will drag down your accessories I ran my last ati for 6 years with an auto and manual trans. Also with a 600w stereo system and never had 1 issue also used a lithium battery with that setup

olddragger

what I don't understand is why are people chasing power? Do you want performance?
Do you want to just outrun your buddy?
Instead of the engine ( with minor exceptions like a little cooling help) why don't people just drop in a 3.7 or maybe even a 4.11 diff?
Just curious ....I like the OP and Dan really don't want to cam this engine.

redbird555

That's another great mod c6z needs gears very badly but just a diff is around 3K for these cars. I would get a light clutch way before doing gears, cheaper and you still keep your mpg when you want them.

redbird555

I wouldn't cam an ls7 before it had every lady bolt on possible, a 25 lb clutch and a set of gears. By that time you'd be destroying cammed and even some HC cars anyway

Unreal

Because no one makes gears for a Z, so swapping gears becomes an expensive item since it requires a swap to a base diff which isn't as strong.

Apocolipse

Longtubes won't add power with a stock cam due to having no positive overlap. Need to run a cam to see the effects of longtube scavenging take place, this is where the power comes from.

redbird555

This makes no sense whatsoever no factory cam have overlap and most ls cars pick up an easy 20hp even without a tune. The ls7 just has great manifolds that flow really well. You don't need a cam to need good scavenging. Headers will typically pickup 10 hp over a set of manifolds on these cars but once you remove the intke restriction (factory intake manifold) they pick up more

outhouse

Not even sure you would need that on a 1/4 mile application.

On a track, it is personal preference.


The first mod ANYONE should do on this car is head work, and while your in there many choose to upgrade the cam.


No reason to not put a cam in if you put an under drive pulley, which have had many failure recently on this engine.




I would argue for which specific need? Nothing wrong with my gearing for track.


Its actually a great manifold, and ported is very close to a stock MSD or Fast, because it is such a good manifold.


Many people make crazy power with the stock intake, its not really a limiting factor like the cam does.

olddragger

Diffs are a little costly-- about 3K? But in perspective--it is not out of reason? Mods for this car are on the expensive side.
If you chase power then you also need other mods to support the changes? Better cooling, better clutch, etc. Increased power output always has to be accounted for throughout the car if it is to stay balanced.
Changing the diff gears can actually take some strain OFF the drivetrain rather than adding it.
Story time: in the late 1960's my 2nd car, a 2 door hardtop 55 chev with the L89 396 (great engine ) Muncie 4 speed and a 4:11 diff was one hell of a powerful car. I was beating a lot of people at the drag strip. Car couldn't stop( brakes--what brakes?). before I ent to Vietnam I took a trip up the coast. before I did that I put a 3:55 diff in it.
It totally killed the car. A 454 chevy impala freaking beat me. I was breaking U joints left and right and even broke some of the teeth on a ring gear too. Yayyy. it was like it was a totally different car. Didn't take long for me to swap back to the 4:11
The ZO6 is the same way. Just open up the intake a little, get a great tune,drop a 3.7 or even maybe a 4:11 ( that may be a bit high)in this thing and then you better hold on.
I think you can do all that for about 4K?
Now Unreal is right---not enough of the diffs are selling to bring the cost down, little competition etc etc. Wish that would change

redbird555

With all that said it may seem like I'm just blowing smoke but I have actually tried both ends of the spectrum in every mod I just listed there and seen the results first hand and can easily explain how each of them will benefit a car.

Putting a cam in a car without the proper supporting mods is like building a house from the roof down. The car will go faster than stock yes but it won't be near optimal. This is clearly evident by some of the bolt on guys deep in the 10s that have all the mods I listed and the guys with h/c cars that go high10s or low 11s.

Personally I'd rather have a car that surprises everyone than would that performs less than optimally. The last car I went through was an fbody 3650 rw that had a stock ls3 crate motor in it. Using those techniques above the car trapped 120 in 2500 DA even with the stock poppy 342 gears out back launching off idle. With a 3.90 gear or so and a 4K launch that car would have easily trapped 4-5mph better even than it did. That motor also made 450whp on a couple different dynos on a stock ls3 intake on 93.

If one goes and researches some of the fastest bolt on cars here you won't find a heavy clutch, mechanical water pump, stock crank pulley or stock gears. There's a reason for all that

olddragger

Gearing is individualized to the environment of which the car is to be used. if it is acceleration someone wants ( that is usually what people want when they want more power)--- then more times than not, a different diff ratio than stock will significaly help in a variety of ways.

olddragger

exactly redbird! Totally with you.

atljar

Mine bone stock only made high 430s.

Either way.... Ported Fast, Mild head port and mill, headers, Haltech 102, 10% ATI my car made 507rwhp/490 tq but the power curve is really flat. It carried over 500rwhp from 5500-6400 rpm. Stock cam still

Thats ~70rwhp gains on stock cam. One of the things to consider is the torque curve vs traction. Stock cam makes lots of low end torque. The cammed cars tend to spread that out a little and can make traction easier to come by, even though the make overall more power

outhouse

Exactly, personal preference

MTPZ06

This is probably a good blueprint right here for (reasonably) squeezing the most HP out of a stock cam LS7. Unless of course that MSD wasn't Mamofied like the TB...