[ANSWERED] The design philosophy on the C6 was correct, but wrong on the C7
06-13-2015, 08:08 AM
#61
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I think it was an interesting answer by the Chief. I don't know if it was promised or promoted to be a fully "track-ready car" off the showroom floor with no mods----just buy it, go to the track (any track), and race it--- because I thought it read, "the most track-ready car" ever built by Corvette. Maybe I'm wrong on that one tho.
What I think also is that for the people who want a track ready car, if the engine had less power, how would it feel to be slower than the newer cars from competitors?
Or, if it really was completely track-ready out the door, would anyone want to afford the stripped down version at a premium of say another $20K? Why so much (it could be more), because along the lines of a street car and considering low volume that would be sold of the purpose-built car, how else does the company spread the cost?
After all, if some/most of the "track-ready-out-the-door" car parts were on all Z06s to defray/spread the costs out, wouldn't all Z06 prices have to rise to accommodate those pieces? I think so.
What I think also is that for the people who want a track ready car, if the engine had less power, how would it feel to be slower than the newer cars from competitors?
Or, if it really was completely track-ready out the door, would anyone want to afford the stripped down version at a premium of say another $20K? Why so much (it could be more), because along the lines of a street car and considering low volume that would be sold of the purpose-built car, how else does the company spread the cost?
After all, if some/most of the "track-ready-out-the-door" car parts were on all Z06s to defray/spread the costs out, wouldn't all Z06 prices have to rise to accommodate those pieces? I think so.
06-14-2015, 01:54 AM
#62
Instructor
Wow.. that's a tour de force of obfuscation... and from what little I understand, I tend to agree... when people say things like "Statistics Show..." my BS radar is always activated... (but you don't have to go to FSU to be a good statistician)
My point is simple... everybody has a different definition of a "track" car, and uses it differently.
Asking Tadge or any other engineer to design a street-legal usable car that is also capable of 10/10s track driving is impossible... these are mutually-exclusive missions.
Most of us who drive our cars on the track at racing speeds (whether it is HPDE or Racing) understand that significant modifications are required to even the best engineered street cars (e.g. Porsche GT3).
I know plenty of guys who have C5/C6 Z06's and they are all heavily modified for the track.
As far as safety equipment, almost every Instructor I know (including myself) has been involved in a track accident... some minor, some requiring hospitalization...
A stock Z06 is capable of speeds that would get you into the Daytona 24 hours a decade ago... anybody who has seen a car disintegrate, and the driver med-evaced out of the track appreciates this.
I stand by my statement that driving a car beyond 8/10s on the track without full safety equipment is foolish, and the "broomstick test" is not going to help you when the entire roof structure of the car is torn off. I have 20+ years of (purely anecdotal) driving experience to back this up.
My point is simple... everybody has a different definition of a "track" car, and uses it differently.
Asking Tadge or any other engineer to design a street-legal usable car that is also capable of 10/10s track driving is impossible... these are mutually-exclusive missions.
Most of us who drive our cars on the track at racing speeds (whether it is HPDE or Racing) understand that significant modifications are required to even the best engineered street cars (e.g. Porsche GT3).
I know plenty of guys who have C5/C6 Z06's and they are all heavily modified for the track.
As far as safety equipment, almost every Instructor I know (including myself) has been involved in a track accident... some minor, some requiring hospitalization...
A stock Z06 is capable of speeds that would get you into the Daytona 24 hours a decade ago... anybody who has seen a car disintegrate, and the driver med-evaced out of the track appreciates this.
I stand by my statement that driving a car beyond 8/10s on the track without full safety equipment is foolish, and the "broomstick test" is not going to help you when the entire roof structure of the car is torn off. I have 20+ years of (purely anecdotal) driving experience to back this up.
Research is one of the passions that I took away from my doctorate program and statistics is quite different from research, as I am sure you already know.
I actually meant what I said with no ill intent towards anyone, and I actually anticipated that the little bit I wrote would be seen as clear and fairly on point with my central idea of why we shouldn't drag research and stat's into supposition presentations. Please forgive me if I seemed to not make that point.
I simply wanted some great positions from some fellow Corvette people to stand on their own accord without any attacks upon credibility and capability as the hair was flying. This often seems to happen when people start attaching "research" jargon to their suppositions as a way to qualify their premise as being "the" correct position. 
I was actually enjoying the information and friendly debate and was hopeful that it stayed that way.
For me, there is plenty of room for multiple perspectives on this topic. Btw, I have no problems with your operational definition and like how you presented it. I also agree with some of the other viewpoints as well, and together they give me a broader picture about the track day experience in a Corvette; something I have no experience with. In the end would you agree that the crux of the problem is that Chevy has to fix the overheating issue first and foremost, as it seems to border on the extreme end of the range compared to the C5/C6 platforms?
On a personal note regarding the engine in the C7, I don't like the idea of stressing mass volume production cars that can be DD's and pass EPA testing to the breaking point.
I'm of the firm belief that these cars should have engines engineered to go 200K+ miles. It's almost as if the Corvette is starting to move outside of it's blue collar person's super sports car motif into the executive level white collar person's exotic car. Who really wants Ferrari longevity out of a high volume sports car? There has to be a way to better integrate the blue collar Chevy base with the executive white collar's exotica pocketbook. The C5 platform, which I think both the C6 and the C7 are firmly based upon, was the first super sports car to do this it seems and that concept revolutionized the sports car industry (yes I hear the groans about the plastic interior 
). Now it seems like Chevy is looking for clarity all of a sudden regarding what a sports car truly should be, maybe because of all of the pocket rockets and capable muscle cars that now exist. Maybe Corvette owners are seeing this ambiguity, this soul search by Chevy, and starting to question the latest iteration of Chevy's philosophy as seen in the C7 with a raised eyebrow?
Last edited by darnold; 06-14-2015 at 02:16 AM.
06-14-2015, 12:17 PM
#63
Race Director
FWIW, Corvette has always been "expensive" compared to Chevrolet's and most of GM's other offerings. It just hasn't been
as expensive as other "exotic" marques. The performance of the modern Corvette (C5/C6/C7) has approached or exceeded
that of some of those same "exotics" (certain models).
As an example, I'm sure many of us have seen some MSRP window stickers on fully-loaded 1963 Corvettes...some at $10K+/-.
That was a huge amount of money for a production car at the time, when a four-door sedan could sticker for around $3K+/-.
as expensive as other "exotic" marques. The performance of the modern Corvette (C5/C6/C7) has approached or exceeded
that of some of those same "exotics" (certain models).
As an example, I'm sure many of us have seen some MSRP window stickers on fully-loaded 1963 Corvettes...some at $10K+/-.
That was a huge amount of money for a production car at the time, when a four-door sedan could sticker for around $3K+/-.
Last edited by Gary '09 C6; 06-14-2015 at 12:19 PM. Reason: sp
07-07-2015, 08:09 AM
#64
Intermediate
I think that, when talking about "track" cars, people forget they're buying a street car. It has to meet street-car crash, rollover, occupant safety, gas mileage, emissions, reliability/durability/warranty, maintenance, weather, comfort, etc. regulations/needs for a world-wide customer segment. I fully understand that a Z06 is a car that is "supposed" to be capable of kicking the GT3RS's *** in a hot lap on the track. But that's different than a track car, by which you basically mean a race car (whether you know it or not). More specifically, a race car that can run 10/10ths qualifier laps (that's what track-day laps are) all day without issue on pump gas using fully warrantied parts that don't break or fail and can be driven to Cars & Coffee the next morning.
That car, I can assure you, does not exist. The fact that any company can build a car that even approaches that goal successfully is a minor engineering miracle.
That car, I can assure you, does not exist. The fact that any company can build a car that even approaches that goal successfully is a minor engineering miracle.
07-07-2015, 01:49 PM
#65
I think that, when talking about "track" cars, people forget they're buying a street car. It has to meet street-car crash, rollover, occupant safety, gas mileage, emissions, reliability/durability/warranty, maintenance, weather, comfort, etc. regulations/needs for a world-wide customer segment. I fully understand that a Z06 is a car that is "supposed" to be capable of kicking the GT3RS's *** in a hot lap on the track. But that's different than a track car, by which you basically mean a race car (whether you know it or not). More specifically, a race car that can run 10/10ths qualifier laps (that's what track-day laps are) all day without issue on pump gas using fully warrantied parts that don't break or fail and can be driven to Cars & Coffee the next morning.
That car, I can assure you, does not exist. The fact that any company can build a car that even approaches that goal successfully is a minor engineering miracle.
That car, I can assure you, does not exist. The fact that any company can build a car that even approaches that goal successfully is a minor engineering miracle.
I can assure you I can run my old 2009 GT-R (with its add-on transmission cooler) at 10/10ths on track all day long and only have to put gas in it, and then take it out to a restaurant, drive home, and repeat day after day, year after year. Been doing that for 7 years now. Newer model improved transmission and other cooling. I just finished a day at Mosport with it, and my buddy with his Viper T/A and I ran all day for 30 minute sessions each once per hour, and even more sessions in the afternoon as many people had gone home. No overheating of any kind in either car. My buddy in his Z06 was running his first full track day with us, and he never overheated but he had the gages almost into the red which was worrying him a little, and we were all running similar fast times, in the 1:34 to 1:36 depending on traffic, which made us the 3 fastest cars on track except for a Radical. Had the outdoor air temperature been hotter, the Z06 might have had to run shorter sessions to avoid overheating, we shall see. My Z51 is at the dealer again having it's 3rd set of AFM actuators installed since they have failed on track every single time it's been to the track.
Look at the fuzzy shot from my iPhone of the Viper T/A's temps at the end of a 30 minute session while I was a passenger. Oil temp is 106 C or 228F, barely over the boiling point of water, and the coolant temp is 91 C or 195 F. It actually went as high as 94 C or 201 F at the end of the back straight. My GT-R temps were slightly higher, with its DCT transmission up to a maximum of 127 C or 260 F. Compare those to a Z06's temps. So it is totally possible to make a track car that is a street car that you can run flat out on track all day and just put gas in it.
07-07-2015, 08:14 PM
#66
Intermediate
I can assure you I can run my old 2009 GT-R (with its add-on transmission cooler) at 10/10ths on track all day long and only have to put gas in it, and then take it out to a restaurant, drive home, and repeat day after day, year after year. Been doing that for 7 years now. Newer model improved transmission and other cooling. I just finished a day at Mosport with it, and my buddy with his Viper T/A and I ran all day for 30 minute sessions each once per hour, and even more sessions in the afternoon as many people had gone home. No overheating of any kind in either car. My buddy in his Z06 was running his first full track day with us, and he never overheated but he had the gages almost into the red which was worrying him a little, and we were all running similar fast times, in the 1:34 to 1:36 depending on traffic, which made us the 3 fastest cars on track except for a Radical. Had the outdoor air temperature been hotter, the Z06 might have had to run shorter sessions to avoid overheating, we shall see. My Z51 is at the dealer again having it's 3rd set of AFM actuators installed since they have failed on track every single time it's been to the track.
Look at the fuzzy shot from my iPhone of the Viper T/A's temps at the end of a 30 minute session while I was a passenger. Oil temp is 106 C or 228F, barely over the boiling point of water, and the coolant temp is 91 C or 195 F. It actually went as high as 94 C or 201 F at the end of the back straight. My GT-R temps were slightly higher, with its DCT transmission up to a maximum of 127 C or 260 F. Compare those to a Z06's temps. So it is totally possible to make a track car that is a street car that you can run flat out on track all day and just put gas in it.
07-10-2015, 11:14 PM
#67
I can say from my own experience in buying my C6Z that I was very happy ordering the most base car I could. I was really stretching the budget on this purchase. All the $$ I didn't spend on: rims, CF hood, stitching, stripes, etc., I put toward the loan payments. Result? I have a title in my grubby little hands. I mean, $2500 for a CF hood that'll save me 6 lbs.? Common...use that $ to get the title that much faster!
And the Z07 package? I doubt if I'll even get to track my Z. So for me, it was a total waste of $. Again, put that toward the loan instead. I mean, the ride is terrific (with the new Michelins), the base brakes terrific and control (again, with the Michelins) is startling.
By ordering the base 1LZ and nothing else, mine is something many others aren't. It's paid off. And I had enough $ to eventually ditch those 'an accident wanting to happen' Goodyear EMTs F1s.. IMO, THE best and most cost effective upgrade one can make to this car that won't kill the factory warranties.
The only thing I would like to get is maybe the driver's seat from the 3LZ package. I don't need the heaters, but, the extra side support bolstering would be nice.
And the Z07 package? I doubt if I'll even get to track my Z. So for me, it was a total waste of $. Again, put that toward the loan instead. I mean, the ride is terrific (with the new Michelins), the base brakes terrific and control (again, with the Michelins) is startling.
By ordering the base 1LZ and nothing else, mine is something many others aren't. It's paid off. And I had enough $ to eventually ditch those 'an accident wanting to happen' Goodyear EMTs F1s.. IMO, THE best and most cost effective upgrade one can make to this car that won't kill the factory warranties.
The only thing I would like to get is maybe the driver's seat from the 3LZ package. I don't need the heaters, but, the extra side support bolstering would be nice.
Last edited by SHM; 07-10-2015 at 11:16 PM.
07-12-2015, 09:27 PM
#68
Instructor
I can say from my own experience in buying my C6Z that I was very happy ordering the most base car I could. I was really stretching the budget on this purchase. All the $$ I didn't spend on: rims, CF hood, stitching, stripes, etc., I put toward the loan payments. Result? I have a title in my grubby little hands. I mean, $2500 for a CF hood that'll save me 6 lbs.? Common...use that $ to get the title that much faster!
And the Z07 package? I doubt if I'll even get to track my Z. So for me, it was a total waste of $. Again, put that toward the loan instead. I mean, the ride is terrific (with the new Michelins), the base brakes terrific and control (again, with the Michelins) is startling.
By ordering the base 1LZ and nothing else, mine is something many others aren't. It's paid off. And I had enough $ to eventually ditch those 'an accident wanting to happen' Goodyear EMTs F1s.. IMO, THE best and most cost effective upgrade one can make to this car that won't kill the factory warranties.
The only thing I would like to get is maybe the driver's seat from the 3LZ package. I don't need the heaters, but, the extra side support bolstering would be nice.
And the Z07 package? I doubt if I'll even get to track my Z. So for me, it was a total waste of $. Again, put that toward the loan instead. I mean, the ride is terrific (with the new Michelins), the base brakes terrific and control (again, with the Michelins) is startling.
By ordering the base 1LZ and nothing else, mine is something many others aren't. It's paid off. And I had enough $ to eventually ditch those 'an accident wanting to happen' Goodyear EMTs F1s.. IMO, THE best and most cost effective upgrade one can make to this car that won't kill the factory warranties.
The only thing I would like to get is maybe the driver's seat from the 3LZ package. I don't need the heaters, but, the extra side support bolstering would be nice.
07-29-2015, 02:19 PM
#69
Look at the fuzzy shot from my iPhone of the Viper T/A's temps at the end of a 30 minute session while I was a passenger. Oil temp is 106 C or 228F, barely over the boiling point of water, and the coolant temp is 91 C or 195 F. It actually went as high as 94 C or 201 F at the end of the back straight. My GT-R temps were slightly higher, with its DCT transmission up to a maximum of 127 C or 260 F. Compare those to a Z06's temps. So it is totally possible to make a track car that is a street car that you can run flat out on track all day and just put gas in it.
08-17-2015, 11:31 AM
#70
I have to disagree with Tadge's view re: what constitutes a pure track car only purchase.
"If you look at the Z06 (C6 or C7), hardly anybody orders the pure track car - no options but Z07 and maybe Competition seat. The vast majority (93% in 2015) are ordering their cars with uplevel option packages."
My intention will be to buy a pure track but will definitely add uplevel option packages so I can sell it when the time comes. Getting merely level 1 and Z07 packages with maybe the Comp seats will likely severely limit the secondary buyers' market.
"If you look at the Z06 (C6 or C7), hardly anybody orders the pure track car - no options but Z07 and maybe Competition seat. The vast majority (93% in 2015) are ordering their cars with uplevel option packages."
My intention will be to buy a pure track but will definitely add uplevel option packages so I can sell it when the time comes. Getting merely level 1 and Z07 packages with maybe the Comp seats will likely severely limit the secondary buyers' market.
08-17-2015, 01:19 PM
#71
Melting Slicks
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I have to disagree with Tadge's view re: what constitutes a pure track car only purchase.
"If you look at the Z06 (C6 or C7), hardly anybody orders the pure track car - no options but Z07 and maybe Competition seat. The vast majority (93% in 2015) are ordering their cars with uplevel option packages."
My intention will be to buy a pure track but will definitely add uplevel option packages so I can sell it when the time comes. Getting merely level 1 and Z07 packages with maybe the Comp seats will likely severely limit the secondary buyers' market.
"If you look at the Z06 (C6 or C7), hardly anybody orders the pure track car - no options but Z07 and maybe Competition seat. The vast majority (93% in 2015) are ordering their cars with uplevel option packages."
My intention will be to buy a pure track but will definitely add uplevel option packages so I can sell it when the time comes. Getting merely level 1 and Z07 packages with maybe the Comp seats will likely severely limit the secondary buyers' market.
We (Callaway Cars) have always encouraged spirited driving, and have even hosted HPDE events at Lime Rock Park and other tracks. Callaway owners have brought their vehicles, used them in the HPDE events, and no warranties were lost. That said, we build a performance street car, not a track car. So our warranty does have some exclusions, if one wanted a track car and expect coverage, without any limitations.
I hope this helps.
Source: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590285631
08-17-2015, 01:48 PM
#72
Le Mans Master
If this is Tadge's estimation of what the market is telling him, then his calculation is dead wrong. If I truly wanted an HPDE Z06 I'd very likely buy the base or 2LT Z06...THAT's the stripper track Z06, not a 1lt Z07....lol. In the end, I want a track day C7 very badly, and after all this waiting will end up buying a Z51 because I feel quite strongly it's the most suitable trackday Corvette there is.
In the end, as a street/track guy, who seeks to press down the price, this is the Z06 I'd be buying right here if I had no other choice:
2016 Corvette Z06 Coupe 1LZ
Price
$84,785
MSRP1 from $79,400
Destination Freight Charge $995
Options
Night Race Blue Metallic $0
Jet Black, Leather seating surfaces with sueded microfiber inserts $0
19" front/20" rear, Z06® Pearl Nickel-painted aluminum wheels $0
6.2L (376 ci) supercharged V8 DI engine Standard
7-speed manual transmission $0
Battery Protection Package Remove $100
Audio system $0
Performance data and video recorder Remove $1,795
Competition Sport bucket seats $2,495
3-spoke, sueded microfiber-wrapped, flat-bottom steering wheel $0
Options Total $4,390
Total MSRP $84,785
Price $84,785*
Start OverPrevious Step
Top: UpDown
Exterior:FrontBackSideInterior:FrontSide
With real money on the line though, I'd take this car over it and mod it with the Z06 body/aero:
2016 Corvette Stingray Coupe 1LT with Z51 Performance Package
Price
$66,875 OR
MSRP1 from $60,400
Destination Freight Charge $995
Options
Night Race Blue Metallic $0
Jet Black, Leather seating surfaces with sueded microfiber inserts $0
19" front/20" rear, Black aluminum wheels $495
6.2L V8 DI engine Standard
7-speed manual transmission $0
Battery Protection Package Remove $100
Yellow-painted brake calipers $595
Audio system $0
Performance data and video recorder Remove $1,795
Competition Sport bucket seats $2,495
Options Total $5,480
Total MSRP $66,875
Price $66,875*
Start OverPrevious Step
Top: UpDown
Exterior:FrontBackSideInterior:FrontSide
End of the day, it's not worth it to me to buy either, because neither offer what I want and I'm not going to buy a car new to take it apart. So, despite waiting for the 2014, then waiting in anticipation of the Z06, now realizing none offer me what I want, I'll now be buying a used Z51 to press the price down, so I can invest the leftover into building what I want...which is a minimal/lightest/naturally aspirated car with aero. I don't want badges that say the hp number, I don't want chrome fish, I don't want motorized screens...I want a/c, a good enough audio system that is light, great seats, a great display/hud, pdr, and a solid *** car I can drive hard. I don't need 650hp...I would LOVE 475'ish n/a with a great package surrounding it...aero, brakes, etc. Don't need huge carbons, just properly cooled/ducted irons. Lighter car, simpler construction, etc.
Last edited by RC000E; 08-17-2015 at 01:57 PM.
08-18-2015, 02:16 AM
#73
I think everything Tadge says makes perfect sense and was the right decision given everything involved. The Z06 (and even the Z51) are not supposed to be and are not marketed as "dedicated track cars" but "track capable street cars". Making that choice is the proper business decision, and the numbers back it up.
However, the one thing I fault him and the development team on are the cooling issues. This includes the Z06 engine, transmissions (including the Z51 A8), and even needing those stupid brake cooling rings on the Z51. If you really are promising a track capable street car then these issues are a serious problem. If solving them increases the cost of the car too much, then make those things an option which only those people that really need them will buy. I'd even accept add-on packages from the parts catalog that the dealer could install, as long as they don't void the warranty.
I'm not even saying that solving these issues is easy, or even possible, but to market the car as a "track ready/capable street car from the factory" then have these issues with no solution, I consider a failure since they haven't delivered what was promised. Perhaps they just shouldn't have promised it since otherwise it is still a great car.
However, the one thing I fault him and the development team on are the cooling issues. This includes the Z06 engine, transmissions (including the Z51 A8), and even needing those stupid brake cooling rings on the Z51. If you really are promising a track capable street car then these issues are a serious problem. If solving them increases the cost of the car too much, then make those things an option which only those people that really need them will buy. I'd even accept add-on packages from the parts catalog that the dealer could install, as long as they don't void the warranty.
I'm not even saying that solving these issues is easy, or even possible, but to market the car as a "track ready/capable street car from the factory" then have these issues with no solution, I consider a failure since they haven't delivered what was promised. Perhaps they just shouldn't have promised it since otherwise it is still a great car.
08-18-2015, 10:55 AM
#74
Cruising
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Direct, Fair & Well Balanced Post on this Subject
Jay (and all concerned with the ZO6 overheating issue):
Your post from late May is, by far, the most well balanced commentary I've seen on the Forum...how did I miss it! The inability of the ZO6, as configured from the factory, to run more than a few laps in a "Driver Education" day (warm/hot days) at tracks is way below the expectations any reasonable person has in considering the purchase of a ZO6. I'm not talking about 'racing' these cars. Racing is a whole other world from DE days.
Like most other Forum members, I'm a huge fan of the new ZO6. But Tadge/GM should put all the FUD to rest by telling us they understand the issue and are working towards a solution for those who run occasional DE track days. For those who do not run DE track days, END OF DISCUSSION: go enjoy your fabulous car.Tell those of us who are willing to add extra cost (say $3-5K, maybe more) options to their ZO6s that those options will be forthcoming. That will also be the END OF DISCUSSION for those that do occasional DE days. Please eliminate the one FUD letter you can...the U for uncertainty. Put an end to all this negative PR with a simple announcement. Surely your engineers have/can develop a solution.
Your post from late May is, by far, the most well balanced commentary I've seen on the Forum...how did I miss it! The inability of the ZO6, as configured from the factory, to run more than a few laps in a "Driver Education" day (warm/hot days) at tracks is way below the expectations any reasonable person has in considering the purchase of a ZO6. I'm not talking about 'racing' these cars. Racing is a whole other world from DE days.
Like most other Forum members, I'm a huge fan of the new ZO6. But Tadge/GM should put all the FUD to rest by telling us they understand the issue and are working towards a solution for those who run occasional DE track days. For those who do not run DE track days, END OF DISCUSSION: go enjoy your fabulous car.Tell those of us who are willing to add extra cost (say $3-5K, maybe more) options to their ZO6s that those options will be forthcoming. That will also be the END OF DISCUSSION for those that do occasional DE days. Please eliminate the one FUD letter you can...the U for uncertainty. Put an end to all this negative PR with a simple announcement. Surely your engineers have/can develop a solution.
I think everything Tadge says makes perfect sense and was the right decision given everything involved. The Z06 (and even the Z51) are not supposed to be and are not marketed as "dedicated track cars" but "track capable street cars". Making that choice is the proper business decision, and the numbers back it up.
However, the one thing I fault him and the development team on are the cooling issues. This includes the Z06 engine, transmissions (including the Z51 A8), and even needing those stupid brake cooling rings on the Z51. If you really are promising a track capable street car then these issues are a serious problem. If solving them increases the cost of the car too much, then make those things an option which only those people that really need them will buy. I'd even accept add-on packages from the parts catalog that the dealer could install, as long as they don't void the warranty.
I'm not even saying that solving these issues is easy, or even possible, but to market the car as a "track ready/capable street car from the factory" then have these issues with no solution, I consider a failure since they haven't delivered what was promised. Perhaps they just shouldn't have promised it since otherwise it is still a great car.
However, the one thing I fault him and the development team on are the cooling issues. This includes the Z06 engine, transmissions (including the Z51 A8), and even needing those stupid brake cooling rings on the Z51. If you really are promising a track capable street car then these issues are a serious problem. If solving them increases the cost of the car too much, then make those things an option which only those people that really need them will buy. I'd even accept add-on packages from the parts catalog that the dealer could install, as long as they don't void the warranty.
I'm not even saying that solving these issues is easy, or even possible, but to market the car as a "track ready/capable street car from the factory" then have these issues with no solution, I consider a failure since they haven't delivered what was promised. Perhaps they just shouldn't have promised it since otherwise it is still a great car.
08-18-2015, 11:11 AM
#75
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
First: you don't get to say END OF DISCUSSION in this section of the forum. That right is reserved to myself and a few other site admins.
Second: we're not going to have folks popping up and trying to get their digs into GM regarding the Z06 overheating issues any chance they get. There's a reason the mods in the C7 Z06 section mega-merged that overheating thread. It's tiresome and you guys sound like a bunch of kids on a long trip. "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" ... Tadge has already said they're looking at the issues. Patience.
If folks continue to snipe at GM in this "Ask Tadge" section of the forum regarding Z06 overheating (or any other beaten-to-death subject), I'm going to start censoring the posts. By deleting them. That's not what this section is meant for.
End of discussion.
