Tom400CFI

Must have had a broken Tq tube.

Mikec7z

where did the car twist? something else was the problem, not the car twisting. You guys dont even make any sense anymore.

sstonebreaker

Every time the car spins, it's fishtailing to the right. You can see that Cleetus has to correct the same way each time the car spins, turning to the right to keep the car straight. This is on a perfectly flat drag strip, so no sloping parking lots or whatever excuse Tom was trying to use with the last video.

First it was IRS cars don't transfer weight unevenly, then when I showed a pic of a C4 obviously doing exactly that, suddenly it shifted to torque tube cars don't transfer weight unevenly. So I showed a vid of a car doing exactly that, and the excuse was a sloping surface. Well, that's a drag strip and it's as level as it gets in the real world. That car, Leroy, is a torque tube car and it consistently fishtails to the right when it spins. Tadge is going to have to come up with another explanation.

Mikec7z

show me a car with a torque tube, twisting as it wheelies?

you wont find one unless it is made out of not so rigid metal that has fatigued over time

And ill bet a lot of money that a different alignment fixed their problem, and if not that, then changing out the rear diff/axles

Those 2 are the problem on these cars, not the frame twisting.

I dont see why this is such a hard topic for you to agree with and grasp.

Tom400CFI

I was joking. It was a joke.

My BET is that the track DOES have a slight grade. It's needs to shed water to some degree. Otherwise, I'd put money on alignment. There is nothing magical about corvettes that make them "go right". They're not George Costanza.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/embed/0...autoplay=false

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/35afc2f...9-3bc3da25b893



.

sstonebreaker

Never said frame twisting was the issue. I said the physical forces are distributed unevenly to the rear wheels, whether solid axle, IRS or torque tube. The torque tube design is certainly superior to the solid axles, but it's not perfect. Tadge thought it was the road crown causing the fishtail bias to the right, but a video of a stock car in a parking lot and the vettecart consistently fishtailing TO THE RIGHT going down a perfectly flat dragstrip, prove conclusively that the system isn't perfect.

I dont see why this is such a hard topic for you to agree with and grasp.

Mikec7z

and i said the only force that puts more weight on one side of the car vs the other, is the momentum/inertia of the crank...

which can be simulated by revving your engine in neutral in your driveway.

All the other forces you speak of are blocked by the torque tube, and you still dont get it. Its like me pushing on you with a brick wall between us... you feel nothing.

how many times do i have to explain this. The crank's inertia/momentum forces are it. And its not much.

Go rev your car over and over in your driveway and make a video of how much the car pushes to one side. Better, yet, go put your car on a 4 point scale system and rev it over and over there, and report back to us, that fluctuation in weight from one side to the other is the total force a c5-c7 feels during launch... and technically, it is much less, because the crank is accelerated much faster in neutral than it is at a track, while in gear, so the forces at the track are probably 1/4 the weight transfer that you will achieve revving your engine on a 4 point scale.

Is it enough to break one side loose before the other? in some cases yes. Is it also possible to put extra weight on the other side of the car to counter it and make the extra weight on one side balanced out? yes....

So your theory is not absolute, nor is it as much force as you are leading on... WHEN A TORQUE TUBE MADE OF SOLID CARBON FIBER IS INVOLVED.

GET IT YET?!

Keep pretending im the one who is confused, ive clearly explained this from my first posts.

You are the one people are laughing at.

Tom400CFI

Right? I was thinking the exact same thing! Weird how that works.

Ahhh...dude. The video that YOU posted to drive home your point? The Parking lot vid? The car fishtailed to the right leaving the camera man....but it fishtailed to the left, coming toward the camera man. Go re-watch your own video.

You video supports the point that the car is going to drift in the direction of the slope....just like the chief engineer of the car says it would. I dont (sic) see why this is such a hard topic for you to agree with and grasp.

sstonebreaker

Nope.

Mikec7z

the LG video you posted i agree with, and it has nothing to do with barrel roll frame twist from front to back of the car...

instead, it has to do with rear suspension, and the control arms bending forward equally on both sides, as each tire pushes the car forward under hard acceleration.

So why would you post "nope"?

go look in the mirror and say "nope" because this video proves what i have been saying all along.

Tom400CFI

Yep. You do realize, that both wheels are deflecting the same amount....right? So how would that undesirable characteristic, always make the "Corvette go right"? It's not George Costanza.

cdngolfer

I noticed that the car went to the right while on the drums under acceleration in the video. Should have been level, so something caused it. Always thought that it was the left wheel being pushed down and the right lifting due to the driveshaft torque direction.

Tom400CFI

This has been thoroughly covered in this thread already. An IRS car can not "push down" on either wheel, harder than another wheel due to driveshaft tq. That tq is resolved through the frame of the car, or in the case of C5^ Corvettes, it's resolved through the tq tube. There is also the issue of the jointed axle shafts which are very poor at exerting "downward force" through their joints.

The car on the drums could have only "went to the right" as a response to tire direction -alignment. The gooey bushing exacerbate the situation making it harder to align such that the wheels are pointed straight under load, but both wheel arm bushings should flex similarly and have similar, error in their toe, etc.

sstonebreaker

Amazing you were able to measure the wheel movement on both sides from that video, especially when they only showed the driver's side wheel. My x-ray vision doesn't work as good as yours. What I did see, though, was thateven with the bushings replaced by monoballs,the rear of the car STILL shifted right under acceleration, even on the dyno. The car fishtails to the right. No slope or road crown necessary.

You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's actually more important to solve the real world problem posted by the OP or convince yourself that you've "won" a forum thread.

sstonebreaker

Don't pay any attention to him. He initially denied the car had an issue with fishtailing to one side, and now he's like that guy in the left lane that passed you, then slowed down, but doesn't want to give up his position even though he made a mistake, so he keeps speeding up to get ahead of you, but then slows down, until you catch up again and he speeds up again; when he just needs to move to the side and admit he can't keep up.

Mikec7z

both rear wheels move forward (toe in) under hard acceleration, its common knowledge. Quit pretending they dont. The entire rear end is not shifting to the right, the torque tube and car's frame make it impossible for the whole rear assembly to shift right. You are so far in left field now, its unreal.

im done here, you aren't all there upstairs.

Tom400CFI

Likewise. You post a video contradicting your own point...then continue to argue.

Tom400CFI

I totally agree. Your brain should be able to recognize that both wheels are going to do about the same thing. Should.

Tom400CFI

Sounds like you have some experience with this? I've seen you out on the road.

S-breaker...why don't you just go run a test w/your own 'Vette? See what happens?

cdngolfer

Good point

I have an 08 Z06 It ALWAYS kicks the rea out to the right when the wheels slip. That includes burnouts at the drag strip (dead flat concrete pad)

Not sure why