C6 JBose sucks - suggestions for replacement? (x-post)
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From: Loveland CO
C6 JBose sucks - suggestions for replacement? (x-post)
Over the past month I've grown to really dislike the factory Bose system. Speakers are very hollow sounding.
Any suggestions for replacement speakers? Size would be helpful. I'll likely stick with the factory faceplate.
thanks.
Any suggestions for replacement speakers? Size would be helpful. I'll likely stick with the factory faceplate.
thanks.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Simply adding new speakers to the Bose system will not yield better sonic performance. One of the secrets the the Bose empire is DSP (Digital Signal Processing).
Basically, you take $1 speakers and add equalization to make them sound decent. Usually, there will be a boost in the low frequencies and the high frequencies (hence "no highs no lows must be Bose)and a cut to tame the peaky midrange characterisitcs. You put this low-cost system into a nice vehicle-specific package and the dealer has a high margin ticket.
The problem comes in when you add better than $1 speakers and do not do something about the DSP, you get WORSE sound due to an EQ mismatch.
The good news is GM elected not to put the Bose SMART AMP system in the C6 so the integration of aftermarket audio is easy. The outputs ofthe OEM deck is full-range and flat. All the Bose magic happens in the amp.
This is what I recommend:
Forget about adding speakers to the Bose amp. It will not yield improved sonics and you may have impedance issues anyway.
Connect the outputs of the deck to the balanced differential inputs of an aftermarket amplifier with one or two of these:
ECS
Do not try this with an amplifier without this type of input because you will smoke the deck. Examples of amplifers that do have the proper input section can be found here: Slash Series
If you want to add more low frequency performance without impacting trunk space, consider this: Stealthbox
This link also has additional links to replacement speakers that fit the factory locations.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Basically, you take $1 speakers and add equalization to make them sound decent. Usually, there will be a boost in the low frequencies and the high frequencies (hence "no highs no lows must be Bose)and a cut to tame the peaky midrange characterisitcs. You put this low-cost system into a nice vehicle-specific package and the dealer has a high margin ticket.
The problem comes in when you add better than $1 speakers and do not do something about the DSP, you get WORSE sound due to an EQ mismatch.
The good news is GM elected not to put the Bose SMART AMP system in the C6 so the integration of aftermarket audio is easy. The outputs ofthe OEM deck is full-range and flat. All the Bose magic happens in the amp.
This is what I recommend:
Forget about adding speakers to the Bose amp. It will not yield improved sonics and you may have impedance issues anyway.
Connect the outputs of the deck to the balanced differential inputs of an aftermarket amplifier with one or two of these:
ECS
Do not try this with an amplifier without this type of input because you will smoke the deck. Examples of amplifers that do have the proper input section can be found here: Slash Series
If you want to add more low frequency performance without impacting trunk space, consider this: Stealthbox
This link also has additional links to replacement speakers that fit the factory locations.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
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From: Loveland CO
Great info.
So after doing as you suggest, would you still recommend sticking with the OEM speakers?
I'm doing my homework and have come across a bunch of threads recommending BA & Focal speakers. I also didn't know that the center & rear speakers were mono. That likely helps explain why things sounds so muddy.
So after doing as you suggest, would you still recommend sticking with the OEM speakers?
I'm doing my homework and have come across a bunch of threads recommending BA & Focal speakers. I also didn't know that the center & rear speakers were mono. That likely helps explain why things sounds so muddy.
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No way should you change the amp and keep the OEM speakers. The Bose speakers are the weakest part of the system, then the amp, then the HU.
There are two common approaches to improving the Bose system.
1) Only replace the OEM speakers with better quality, high efficiency speakers. (Many have done this and are pleased with the results.)
2) Replace the OEM speakers and the OEM amp and rewire. (Many have done this and are also pleased with the results.)
If doing the first option, I recommend BA or Infinity Kappas. I would not recommend Focals. These are great speakers but require more power, so Focals should be considered if you are also changing out the amp.
If doing the second option, there are many posts on the forum that describe what is needed and the exact steps to make this change.
What you do will depend on your alloted budget, whether you want to keep a stock look, and how much improvement you are looking for.
Hope this short post helped answer you questions.
There are two common approaches to improving the Bose system.
1) Only replace the OEM speakers with better quality, high efficiency speakers. (Many have done this and are pleased with the results.)
2) Replace the OEM speakers and the OEM amp and rewire. (Many have done this and are also pleased with the results.)
If doing the first option, I recommend BA or Infinity Kappas. I would not recommend Focals. These are great speakers but require more power, so Focals should be considered if you are also changing out the amp.
If doing the second option, there are many posts on the forum that describe what is needed and the exact steps to make this change.
What you do will depend on your alloted budget, whether you want to keep a stock look, and how much improvement you are looking for.
Hope this short post helped answer you questions.
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If you keep the factory speakers and do everything else, you take away the EQ curve that is supposed to make the $1 speakers sound good. You are then left with the $1 speaker in it's natural habitat.
Replace the speakers and add an amp. I am not sure why people think that one speaker needs more power than another, but you will find this a lot out there.
I recommend the speakers from the guy who gave you all this useful information
You can find the evolution models by following the links I have provided.
Replace the speakers and add an amp. I am not sure why people think that one speaker needs more power than another, but you will find this a lot out there.
I recommend the speakers from the guy who gave you all this useful information
You can find the evolution models by following the links I have provided.
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From: Loveland CO
Originally Posted by JLTD
If you keep the factory speakers and do everything else, you take away the EQ curve that is supposed to make the $1 speakers sound good. You are then left with the $1 speaker in it's natural habitat.
Replace the speakers and add an amp. I am not sure why people think that one speaker needs more power than another, but you will find this a lot out there.
I recommend the speakers from the guy who gave you all this useful information
You can find the evolution models by following the links I have provided.
Replace the speakers and add an amp. I am not sure why people think that one speaker needs more power than another, but you will find this a lot out there.
I recommend the speakers from the guy who gave you all this useful information
You can find the evolution models by following the links I have provided.
I see CarToys is a dealer of your products. My installer works for them so I'll go check out your gear.
Thanks again for the advice. Looking forward to getting something that sounds decent.
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From: Loveland CO
JLTD,
Priced out some systems today at CarToys. I really like the sound of the JL speakers and amps as well as the Focals. I may do a mix & match.
I'm definitely putting a sub in the hatch. The plan is to disarm the front center and the debate is whether to disarm the rear channels or keep them but replace with new speakers powered by the sub. The shop is also recommending a clean sweep since I'm keeping the OEM Bose HU.
Your thoughts?
Priced out some systems today at CarToys. I really like the sound of the JL speakers and amps as well as the Focals. I may do a mix & match.
I'm definitely putting a sub in the hatch. The plan is to disarm the front center and the debate is whether to disarm the rear channels or keep them but replace with new speakers powered by the sub. The shop is also recommending a clean sweep since I'm keeping the OEM Bose HU.
Your thoughts?
Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; Jul 7, 2006 at 08:12 AM.
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I am extremely happy that they pitched you on the CleanSweep (you can tell them Joseph said so), but the C6 does not need the CleanSweep because the C6 does not have the SMART AMP system.
The CL441dsp looks at the factory EQ curve and applies filters to flatten it out. The system in your car does not use the digital Bus system of the SMART AMP system so it can be tapped into. The output of the radio is flat and analog so no additional processing is needed. Simply connect the outputs of the amp to a Slash Series amp with the ECS speaker wire to RCA pieces and you're done. You do not need any adaptors with these amps.
Car Toys only carries the TR components which is entry level. You need to visit one our the independent dealers in the area if you want to audition the high-end XR or ZR components.
Good Luck with your system, let us know how it works out.
The CL441dsp looks at the factory EQ curve and applies filters to flatten it out. The system in your car does not use the digital Bus system of the SMART AMP system so it can be tapped into. The output of the radio is flat and analog so no additional processing is needed. Simply connect the outputs of the amp to a Slash Series amp with the ECS speaker wire to RCA pieces and you're done. You do not need any adaptors with these amps.
Car Toys only carries the TR components which is entry level. You need to visit one our the independent dealers in the area if you want to audition the high-end XR or ZR components.
Good Luck with your system, let us know how it works out.
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From: Loveland CO
Joseph,
Thanks again. I'm up to 2k on priciing at this point so not sure if I can buck up for the Slash series amp and may go with the entry level which still sounded great. Can I also forego the clean sweep with one of those models?
Car Toys can get me anything and it's gotta be them because I have a no-interest 18 month credit account going. Gotta defer that 2k somehow
Thanks again. I'm up to 2k on priciing at this point so not sure if I can buck up for the Slash series amp and may go with the entry level which still sounded great. Can I also forego the clean sweep with one of those models?
Car Toys can get me anything and it's gotta be them because I have a no-interest 18 month credit account going. Gotta defer that 2k somehow
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From: Loveland CO
And a follow-up questions....
I see from the JL website that a Clean Sweep would allow use of an ipod. Does either the E6450 or Slash 500/5 allow direct aux input? That would be a nice feautre since the Nucleus Ipod adaptor I purchased doesn't work correctly.
Also, what do you think about the rear speakers? I won't leave them stock but am wondering if they're worth replacing or just disarming since I'll be replacing the front door woof & tweet and adding a sub. I plan on disconnecting the front center.
I see from the JL website that a Clean Sweep would allow use of an ipod. Does either the E6450 or Slash 500/5 allow direct aux input? That would be a nice feautre since the Nucleus Ipod adaptor I purchased doesn't work correctly.
Also, what do you think about the rear speakers? I won't leave them stock but am wondering if they're worth replacing or just disarming since I'll be replacing the front door woof & tweet and adding a sub. I plan on disconnecting the front center.
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You will not need the CL441dsp no matter which amp you go with. JL Audio offers two amplifier lines: Slash and e series. The more expensive Slash amplifiers is the amplifier with the differential inputs. The Slash uses regulated power supplies and the e series does not. Regulation is expensive to manufacture which is the major contributor to the price difference. The Slash amplifiers produce the same power from 1.5 - 4 ohms and the e series is optimized for 2 ohm loads. In your case, the Slash amps would produce twice the power the e series will.
You could save some money and go with the e series amps BUT you will have to connect the amp to the outputs of the Bose amp where all the Bose magic takes place. You then maintain the $1 sound for your $2K investment!
You could save some money and go with the e series amps BUT you will have to connect the amp to the outputs of the Bose amp where all the Bose magic takes place. You then maintain the $1 sound for your $2K investment!
