Should I invert my subs?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2000
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From: Merrick NY
Should I invert my subs?
Here's my current sub setup. I'm running a pair of 10" JL 10W6's in a custom sealed box built by a forum member that fits in the middle wheel well. The bass is tight... extremely tight.. which would be fine for most but I do miss the lower bass from dance songs and hip hop songs (please don't shoot me 
) I've adjusted the EQ many a times but the subs get a trememdous workout just trying to hit the low notes. Obviously the problem is that the box doesn't not provide enough VAS (volume air space) for it to generate air pressure to hit those low notes. I don't expect miracles by flipping them, but I was hoping that by inverting them and reverse phasing the connections, that it might provide a little more of what I want. Now I know that I'll lose the miniscle truck space that we all dearly need in the hatch, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for the music.
I know that a box made for an inverted sub tends to be smaller if built to spec because it doesn't included the amount of space the basket and magnet take up. I'm assuming that by inverting the subs I would gain a bit more VAS in my current box and thus lead to deeper bass. Any thoughts?
) I've adjusted the EQ many a times but the subs get a trememdous workout just trying to hit the low notes. Obviously the problem is that the box doesn't not provide enough VAS (volume air space) for it to generate air pressure to hit those low notes. I don't expect miracles by flipping them, but I was hoping that by inverting them and reverse phasing the connections, that it might provide a little more of what I want. Now I know that I'll lose the miniscle truck space that we all dearly need in the hatch, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for the music. I know that a box made for an inverted sub tends to be smaller if built to spec because it doesn't included the amount of space the basket and magnet take up. I'm assuming that by inverting the subs I would gain a bit more VAS in my current box and thus lead to deeper bass. Any thoughts?
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 366
Likes: 1
From: Esparto ca
I dont think inverting it will help. You still have the same vas weather its under the cone or above the cone. Like scott said, polyfill. It can make the box look up to 40% bigger, to the speaker of course.
The speaker proly only takes up about .065-.075. You proly cant hear the diff. You're proly looking for .50. Your box is proly a .80 to 1. cf and your proly looking for 1.25 to 1.50 for the boominess(if thats a word)
The speaker proly only takes up about .065-.075. You proly cant hear the diff. You're proly looking for .50. Your box is proly a .80 to 1. cf and your proly looking for 1.25 to 1.50 for the boominess(if thats a word)
Last edited by adown; Oct 16, 2006 at 10:36 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,306
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From: Wesley Chapel Fl
Originally Posted by adown
I dont think inverting it will help. You still have the same vas weather its under the cone or above the cone. Like scott said, polyfill. It can make the box look up to 40% bigger, to the speaker of course. The speaker proly only takes up about .065-.075. You proly cant hear the diff. You're proly looking for .50. Your box is proly a .80 to 1. cf and your proly looking for 1.25 to 1.50 for the boominess(if thats a word)
The speaker proly only takes up about .065-.075. You proly cant hear the diff. You're proly looking for .50. Your box is proly a .80 to 1. cf and your proly looking for 1.25 to 1.50 for the boominess(if thats a word)That is a bunch of proly lol.
The speaker displacement is very small. I too doubt it will make a suitable change. Polyfill might get you where you need to be but I would go with a new enclosure that is right for your sub.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 142
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From: Peoria AZ
There most likely is something wrong with either the power going to the speakers or (most likely) the box itself. A 10 W0 in the back of a guys camero hit hard and deep off only 200rms. i heard of another setup with two 8w3v2 off 250/1 hit very hard and is more then enough in a C6. According to custom sounds two 10w6v2 off 500/1 should be stupid loud and make your chest hurt. If your subs are the W6 version im not too sure about it, i had a cousin who sold his cause they were not loud enough. But again your wanting a ported box if you want louder and deeper. A common idea is that if your box is too small accourding to spec, then you need more power then recommended in rms delivered to the speakers to produce the same outcome as if box size and amp size are all to spec.
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Pro
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From: Merrick NY
Thanks for all the replys. I do have plenty of power going to them and oh yeah it hurts if I go beyond cranking more then 60% juice in them. I'm not necessarily lookng for louder, but deeper bass. If I had the JL's in a one of those store bought ported boxes it would absolutely be deeper and louder because of the larger enclosure.
As for a Camaro, the acoustics is different from a Vettes. I remember having a single 8" Bazooka tube in mine hooked up to a 100rms amp and then sold both to a friend that had a Camaro and it sounded WAY deeper in his then mine.. probably because of that extra deep well he had in the back of his.
I thought of the ported idea, but I would hate to cut a hole in the box just to experiment and then find out it was done wrong. Songs like AC/DC, Metallica, Jazz music sound FANTASTIC when my JL's hit. It's just songs like Rump Shaker and Cypruss Hill that's don't sound as good... decent but not to my liking.
Anyone know of a forum member that builds enclosures for the Vette. I rather buy from my fellow Vette bretherens that have tested these thinks out themselves.
As for a Camaro, the acoustics is different from a Vettes. I remember having a single 8" Bazooka tube in mine hooked up to a 100rms amp and then sold both to a friend that had a Camaro and it sounded WAY deeper in his then mine.. probably because of that extra deep well he had in the back of his.
I thought of the ported idea, but I would hate to cut a hole in the box just to experiment and then find out it was done wrong. Songs like AC/DC, Metallica, Jazz music sound FANTASTIC when my JL's hit. It's just songs like Rump Shaker and Cypruss Hill that's don't sound as good... decent but not to my liking.
Anyone know of a forum member that builds enclosures for the Vette. I rather buy from my fellow Vette bretherens that have tested these thinks out themselves.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,306
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From: Wesley Chapel Fl
I highly suggest staying away from a generic ported enclosure. Ported enclosures work well when designed properly but they have a serious drawback...port noise. Often in a vehicle with a trunk it is not a problem but in this situation you will most likely hear the port noise and it will not be pleasent. If you are going with ported make sure it is designed specifically for your sub.
Personally I would use a sealed enclosure especially with the music you listen to. I am not a big fan of ported enclosures especially with hard rock.
Personally I would use a sealed enclosure especially with the music you listen to. I am not a big fan of ported enclosures especially with hard rock.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
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From: Iowa
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Also, porting your current small box would be a huge mistake. Ported boxes need to be larger than sealed for the same woofer.
Inverting the sub will get you more air space. Poly will help to.
Doing this will cost very little(fiberfill is cheap) and will not take long to do. I say go for it and post your results. As a bonus, magnets exposed sometimes looks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Kansas City MO
Originally Posted by adown
First find out how much air volume your sub needs and how much your box has. Post the results and we'll do this all over again.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 366
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From: Esparto ca
1.25 is pretty hard to get with a production box. You can get close with a custom. .25 cf isn't much and can be made up with polyfill. If you make a box out of 5/8" and make it fit tight in the hole and the contours of the bottom you should be able to get close. You could glass the bottom to get there.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
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From: Iowa
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Originally Posted by scofolo
10W6v2's required volume sealed is .625 sq ft and .75 sq ft for a ported box.
I did my own caculations based on the external box dimensions for one woofer and do come up with .625 cubes sealed and just over a full cube on the ported
Maybe JL did not include the port area?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Kansas City MO
Originally Posted by knewblewkorvette
Yeah, that is what JL's site says, but I'm confused (I'm confused allot)
I did my own caculations based on the external box dimensions for one woofer and do come up with .625 cubes sealed and just over a full cube on the ported Maybe JL did not include the port area?
I did my own caculations based on the external box dimensions for one woofer and do come up with .625 cubes sealed and just over a full cube on the ported
Maybe JL did not include the port area?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2000
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From: Merrick NY
Yeah I think I'm going to just stick with it the way it is.. I did some calculating and the amount of air volume gained with them inverted still isn't enought to get them close to JL specs of what the required VAS is. Damn I want that deep bass back!!!! 
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
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Question on the "Inverted Sub" thing.... why have the magnets sticking into the air? I was always curious about that...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Los Angeles Ca
Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
Question on the "Inverted Sub" thing.... why have the magnets sticking into the air? I was always curious about that...