a few questions
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
a few questions
Let me start of with my current setup in my 94. Alpine CDM 9821 HU infinity kappa 5.25 infinity kappa 6.5 infinity reference 8" sub hidden under carpet eclipse ea2212 and eclipse pa4212 amps. I had the pa4212 running 65 watts to all four speakers but for some reason the left side would cut out, if I turned up the volume then they would work fine. So I swapped and now have the ea2212 putting 25 watts to all four which honestly sounds the same or better. Now instead of having the ea2212 bridged at 100 watts to the 8" I have the pa4212 putting 130 watts to it and the sub sounds worse than it did with 100 watts why is that? I am thinking of just buying another ea2212 and bridge it for the sub, that way I have a total combined output of 100 watts speakers and 100 watts sub. Now that that is over I have a couple questions....
1) why does the sub not sound as good now that I have swapped amps?
2) would eclipse speakers sound better than infinity?
3) would an eclipse HU sound better than the alpine?
4) is there an advantage in having everything in the car 1 brand instead of three brands?
5) would infinity amps sound better with infinity speakers?
6) is there a better sounding 8" sub than the infinity reference?
thanks guys, just kind of re evaluating my setup
1) why does the sub not sound as good now that I have swapped amps?
2) would eclipse speakers sound better than infinity?
3) would an eclipse HU sound better than the alpine?
4) is there an advantage in having everything in the car 1 brand instead of three brands?
5) would infinity amps sound better with infinity speakers?
6) is there a better sounding 8" sub than the infinity reference?
thanks guys, just kind of re evaluating my setup
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
yeah I know but this forum always gives fast answers lol lets delve a little deeper. I got the sub for 60 bucks, what subs might be better under 100 bucks... mb quart? jl audio, jbl, polk? these are what I can find on ebay. I have looked the install over and over and just cannot find anything wrong looks perfect. This is the sixth system I have installed btw
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,783
Likes: 15
From: Northern California
It sounds like the whole system is Under Powered and the amps Gain levels aren't properly matched to the head unit.
First, I wouldn't install rear fill speakers because they aren't needed and throw off the soundstage.
Second, The infinity Kappa's need at least 80 watts rms each for power.
Third, the Main Power wire should be at least 4 gauge then splitting from the distribution block to two 8 gauge wires to each amp, is that how you've got them wired? A good grounding point for the amps is the passenger seat mounting bolt.
I would power the system with a single Four channel amp with the front channels powering the two front speakers and the two rear channels bridged powering the subs. I had a problem with a new Eclipses four channel amp, It kept shutting down so, I took it back and bought a four channel 600 watt Hifonics Zeus amp that has a lot more power.
The speakers you have will work and sound fine, once you get the proper power and install worked out.
First, I wouldn't install rear fill speakers because they aren't needed and throw off the soundstage.
Second, The infinity Kappa's need at least 80 watts rms each for power.
Third, the Main Power wire should be at least 4 gauge then splitting from the distribution block to two 8 gauge wires to each amp, is that how you've got them wired? A good grounding point for the amps is the passenger seat mounting bolt.
I would power the system with a single Four channel amp with the front channels powering the two front speakers and the two rear channels bridged powering the subs. I had a problem with a new Eclipses four channel amp, It kept shutting down so, I took it back and bought a four channel 600 watt Hifonics Zeus amp that has a lot more power.
The speakers you have will work and sound fine, once you get the proper power and install worked out.
Last edited by GKK; Mar 10, 2009 at 02:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
the power wire is two 8 gauge straight from the battery no block. the ground is at the back in by the rear latch which has worked well before I swapped the amps. The sub is a 200w rms sub and is getting 130 from the pa4212 and was getting 100 bridged from the ea2212. The kappa speakers rms in front is 55 and in back is 75. The pa4212 was putting 65 to each speaker therefore perfect for the backs and 10w too much for the fronts which is why I thought the left side was cutting out. I dont think 25 watts to all of them is underpowering I dunno. I have thought of putting the 6.5 where I have the sub and putting another in the other compartment on the side and adding another sub I think that would be about perfect. I really enjoy the 6.5's I think they round it out a little. Only problem is that the area where you have your subs wouldnt be sealed? thanks for the input. Could it be that I just have a bad amp?
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
how about this... the ea2212 pushes 50x2 I just put the front speakers on that b/c their rms is 65 each. Then using one channel of the pa4212 (130x2) for the subwoofer and the other channel to drive the two back speakers which would give them 65 each b/c their rms is 75. Only problem is that one amp has bass boost and the other doesnt, that means the front 5.25 are getting bass boost and the back two are not... thanks guys
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,783
Likes: 15
From: Northern California
In your 94 C4 Vette, you could fit the 5 1/4" Kappa's in the door sill location or with some fabrication you could fit the 6 1/2" Kappa's. Also, if the speakers rms rating is 65 watts you should power them with a minimum of 65 watts or More not less.
For the Subwoofer I would just use a 10" in a ported or sealed enclosure or buy a Bazooka tube which is very efficient with little power.
Buy a quality 4 channel amp, which has a built in Hi/Low pass crossover as I mentioned before to power the Kappa components and subwoofer and you'll be happy.
Your system needs More power and less speakers.
For the Subwoofer I would just use a 10" in a ported or sealed enclosure or buy a Bazooka tube which is very efficient with little power.
Buy a quality 4 channel amp, which has a built in Hi/Low pass crossover as I mentioned before to power the Kappa components and subwoofer and you'll be happy.
Your system needs More power and less speakers.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
yeah I am thinking a four ch. might be my solution I like where the sub is b/c you cant see it and it doesnt take up any storage space... on another note, I spoke w/ eclipse customer service yesterday they said I was pushing the amp too hard because of the ohms on each spkr. the components are all 2 ohm speakers so when I double them up does that make them 1 ohm? the sub is a 4 ohm. I just bought an eclipse 3620 which is 60x2 at 2 ohms. I am thinking of just doubling them on the 2212 considering it is 70x2 at 2 ohms so they would all get 35 watts and then bridging the sub on the 3620 so it should get somewhere around 100watts until I can get a 3640 which is a four channel.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Temple, TX
got it fixed! wired the components in series which ups them to four ohms and still gives each 65 watts this way the original 4212 doesnt cut out. Then I was able to put the sub back on the 2212 with the bass boost and it really sounds pretty good might just want a little better sub now
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,783
Likes: 15
From: Northern California
First you have to understand what is meant by a 2 ohm load. When an amp specs read it's stable to 2 ohms, it means that you can connect any configuration of speakers as long as the TOTAL value doesn't go below 2 ohms.
A 2 ohm compatible amp doesn't mean you can just connect multiple 2 ohm speakers just because they're all 2 ohms.
For example: Two 2 ohm speakers connected in Parallel +to+-to- will result in a 1 ohm load. Two 4 ohm speakers connected in Parallel will result in a 2 ohm load. Two 8 ohm speakers connected in Parallel will result in a 4 ohm load.
For the 8" subs, Since they're both 4 ohms, you will have to connect them in Series +to- -to+ for the bridged amp to see a 4 ohm load.
FWIW, for the amount you spent on two amplifiers, you could buy one good 4 channel amp with a lot more power and less space.
I'm glad you got it worked out.
A 2 ohm compatible amp doesn't mean you can just connect multiple 2 ohm speakers just because they're all 2 ohms.
For example: Two 2 ohm speakers connected in Parallel +to+-to- will result in a 1 ohm load. Two 4 ohm speakers connected in Parallel will result in a 2 ohm load. Two 8 ohm speakers connected in Parallel will result in a 4 ohm load.
For the 8" subs, Since they're both 4 ohms, you will have to connect them in Series +to- -to+ for the bridged amp to see a 4 ohm load.
FWIW, for the amount you spent on two amplifiers, you could buy one good 4 channel amp with a lot more power and less space.
I'm glad you got it worked out.
Last edited by GKK; Mar 11, 2009 at 03:21 PM.
