Hey guys i am looking to install some focal 165 krx2 in my doors pretty soon. I was wondering if anybody has personal experience with high end focal in the C6. First of all, are these going to sound good if they are installed in the factory positions, or would a different place be needed? I know the midranged will need to be placed on a custom mounting board which all will be done at my install shop. I assume all that is needed is a mounting board to fit in my doors with sound deadening behind it? Is there anything else needed for the install? This will be my first high end set of speakers and i want them to sound great. I assume free air mounting is all that is needed. Are the tweeters a direct fit in the factory position?
Next big important question involves the tweeters. I personally havnt got to hear these comps yet cause my install shop have their sound board all messed up. I wont pull the trigger on these till i hear them. I understand that a lot of people consider focal to be harsh sounding, which makes me a little worried. I certainly do like to crank up my speakers (which are currently bose off a 880prs) and i dont want them to hurt my ears. So how are bright tweeters best mounted and positioned to limit the possibility of sounding harsh? Will the factory position be ok? With the tweeter being aimed in the best position for sound quality? And where should it be aimed?

 

They won't sound ideal. Putting the tweeters on the pillar in a cross-firing situation while being mindful of reflections would be your best bet. that means aimed at each other across the dash, far enough away from the cluster hump and ceiling.

If you listen to a focal tweeter and put your hand next to it, you'll hear some pretty harsh, nasty stuff. That's because the sound is bouncing off your hand. You don't want to put them ANYWHERE in your car that can do that. So, avoid it as much as possible.

Aim the midrange speakers too, there's room to do it.

Focals are harsh sounding when not installed correctly. I fought with mine for years until I figured that out, and got willing to start cutting/glassing tweeters into new places in the car.

Once I got it aimed right, I was blown away at how smooth, detailed, and articulate they were.

 

Ty for the response. Do you have any pictures of where your tweeters are mounted? How do you go about mounting the midranged offaxis? Do you have to mold fireglass to do that? Where should the midranges be aimed? So the tweeters are best mounted in the pillars facing each other across the dash and high enough not to be affected by the dash. I would belive tweeters mounted too high is bad too as they will less likey blend with the midranges? Your also saying how harsh they can sound. Have you heard the new tweeters? I'v been told they are way smoother. I think they also are bigger, which would help the smoothness too right? When you first had the tweeters in your car and was not satisfied, where they in the stock positions? Also do you have any idea how the focal compitition cars are setup for SQ? Id like to see pictures of their cars.

 

The height of the tweeter doesn't matter THAT much. Its the distance from your ears vs the distance of the midrange that matters more. And keeping away from reflections. A trick you can use is to go -3 on the close tweeter, and only -1 or 0 on the far tweeter.

Fiberglass or wood works to angle the door speakers.

Competition cars are often set up with dash pod midrange. The corvette does not work well with this concept. Or kick panels for that matter.



The first time I used my focals were in an 86 corvette. Then I moved them to a 2003 Tacoma. Then a 2005 Saab. I installed them briefly in a location similar to the stock locations in a c6, in my 2004 c5. It was pretty terrible. At that point, I wanted to try a different speaker anyway and went with dynaudio. I never made pillars or a solid install effort on the focals in the c5.

My current tweeters are installed far, far differently than I would install focal tweeters.


And now I'm sad because my cat messed up the voice coil on one of my midranges. I wanted to put the focals in the vette again.

 

You were wanting to put the focals in your vette again replacing the dynaudios? One of the main speakers i am considering instead of the focals would be the dynaudios. Im quite sure iv read people like them more because they have softer highs. I was wondering if it would be worth the money to spend $800 on focals instead of looking into dynaudio further. From your personal experience what would be the best comps to get for my money. I have nowhere that i know of to even be able to hear dynaudios or morels and such to compare.
As for the angle of the midranges where should they be fired? It basically just a bit more towards the center of the cabin, or something specific. The midranges would certinaly be in the stock bose subwoofer door location. "Its the distance from your ears vs the distance of the midrange that matters more." Im not quite sure what that means or how it would affect tweeter placement.

 

The dynaudios factory crossovers are complete and utter trash, and I wouldn't suggest the dyn set to anyone that plans to not run them active. (each speaker gets its own amp channel, plus an active crossover is used.) The tweeter is a bit softer, but also has less "sparkle." It's very, very good though. The factory crossover adds a really nasty sound that I tried tuning out, repositioning.. I finally went active and I cant MAKE them sound bad no matter how hard I try

I forget the "exact right" position for the midranges to be fired. Generally try to aim them at the opposite headrest.



Distance...

The mid is in the door, 42" from your head.
The tweeter is on the pillar, 36" from your head, 24" above the woofer.

There's only 8" of difference that you hear. Not 24". Negligible.

 

Ahh yes, if i were to put the tweeter in the pillar, that would leave the 3" opening from the bose open. What would be your opinion about adding a 3" midrange to the comps witha 6.5" midbass. It worth the extra money?

 

So if both are going to be run active which brand would you recommend? Are the focals as good as dynaudios? I feel i would certainly want more detail as long as its not ear ringing heh. Another big point is the crossover. You say dynaudio crossovers are horrible, what about the focal? Originally i was thinking of getting a jl 300/2 and run the 165krx2 passive. I would assume if you spend prob $200 for the crossovers as part of the set that they would be good. Almost everybody says to run your comps active. Would you agree that i should be getting a 300/4 and run these focals active? I have no knowledge of how to set them up, but im sure my installer and forum help would help me out if its going end up sounding better.

 

Most people can't get a 2 way setup sounding right, let alone a considerably more complicated 3 way. Skip it.

I think Focals are a little better than Dynaudios. I'm comparing Focal Utopia 165w to the various Dynaudio drivers i have owned. Dyns are also power hogs. I'm running 350w per side to my dyn MW172 midranges.

 

K ill prob be picking up the 165krx2, the 3way is quite a bit more expensive anyways. How about the crossovers? Any experience trying active vs passive in the same car with focals? I was considering the jl 300/2 or /4 you think i should just grab the 450/4 and be done with it?

 

I wouldn't suggest active unless you are pretty familiar with active set ups. Stick with the stock oens.

 

How about the amps? People say certain amps are actualy better for certain speakers. I would believe that to be false. I wouldnt expect any amp to help speakers sound warmer or anything. Any experience with JL a/b type amps? I just know all the sub amps i got from them were great. Ill prob be picking up the 300/4 in case i want to run active in the future. I may start out passive, ill end up doing what my shop suggests. If i could get a sell price on a 450/4, would you think it would be worth picking up? It is expensive and i think its prob too much for just front speakers, but there is also a wow factor too.

 

Get a good quality amp and it will sound good. Some people like the distortion caused by tube amps and think it works quite well with Focals.

JL is good, a bit expensive. My current favorite brand is Arc Audio. I really dig the KS series of amps.

I run two ARC KS3.004s for my front speakers. (One at 90x2 for tweeters, the other at 350x2 for midranges ((DON'T run this kind of power to focals, they are good at 90w on the midrange. I get away with 350w because dyns have monster motors)))

 

i just talked with my installer who also owns a C5. We were tlaking about installing the tweeters in the door factory location vs in the pillars. He said he has been doing this for awhile and it doesnt make a difference. Also he said that having the tweeter up high vs having it in the door may cause phase problems when using the factory crossover. Im still a bit worried about the drivers side tweeter only being like 6 inches from the steering wheel. Im worried that the steering wheel will cause problems. He said that the tweeters and not very directional so it shouldnt matter. You had personal expereince with it sounding worse in the doors right? Why was it worse in the doors? Im getting this install on monday and i want to feel good about how they will be installed.

 

Frankly, your installer is not well versed in the realm of SQ. Get a new one. He sounds like a Best Buy employee.

Obviously he has never heard of "off-axis" response, which is a pretty basic concept once you start learning about what makes a stereo sound good.

Saying that tweeter angle isn't important... That's like going to a detailing shop with a dirty vette and they say washing the car isn't important before putting a coat of wax on it.

Find someone who is really into it, and has a great ear, and they will tear things down and rebuild to change tweeters by a few degrees.

For example, my driver's side tweeter is not aimed the same way as my passenger one. It sounds worse on the passenger side, but better on the driver's side this way. They are slightly different.

In the doors, I've found, always makes the focal tweeter sound a bit more harsh. It also seems to exaggerate the difference in the distance of the tweeters to your ears from the midrange.

The steering wheel COULD potentially be an issue. Your best bet here is to take some double sided tape and tape the tweeters into various locations and play lots of different music and see what you like.

When it comes down to it, building new pillars is rewarding but expensive.

So if you do end up putting them in the factory locations, throw some open cell foam around them on the inside, to help reduce high frequency reflections.

You *could* put the tweeters with the mids in the doors (next to them) It might sound pretty good, but you have to worry about legs blocking them.

 

Most people say to put them into the a pillars. I called focals number and talked to a guy that seemed to have a lot of knowlege. He said the best way to mount them would be in the a pillars slightly angled in towards the caben. Would you agree with that? Or is facing each other the only way to go? Facing each other would make the tweeters fire very close to the windshield because our windshield is so slanted. The focal guy said to avoid any front windshield reflection. You have any experience with having the tweeters that far from the midrange and cause any phasing problems with the passive crossovers? Im crossing my fingers that they dont charge a arm and a leg for the tweeter mounts heh. I think the will have to use finberglass and make a complete pod to make it work in the angled pillar in the c6.

 

Yeah that's a concern. You don't want to bounce them, but you want to keep them off axis at the same time. Try two sided tape and see what you like.


You will ALWAYS have phasing issues in a car stereo. The left speaker being closer than the right speaker is a big issue., You can't really get around it. Time correction helps some.

You can put them next to the woofers for the best "blend" but you might block them.
A-pillars are the "best compromise" situation.


Good tweeter pillars run around $300. Its a lot of work.

 

Is toeing them in towards the cabin a good or bad idea? im really tall and so is my roommate so the doors may also get blocked my our knees which is even another consern. Ill prob stick with the pillars. It seemed they said they would cut a hole to place it in the pillar and fireglass or something to fill in the gaps. at $300 are you taling about whole new pillars?

 

It's nota bad diea. Try it and see if it';s too bright for you. I would be very easy with them.

Same pillars, skinned, sanded down, glassed, textured, painted.

The C5 pillars are wrapped in vinyl. Your c6 pillars may be as well.

 

"I would be very easy with them." Meaning dont toe them in much? I certinaly wont be pointing them at the driver or passenger. it will only be slight. They also said they would play with the angle on the midbass to see what sounds best. Not sure if hes blowing smoke or not. But either way its placed is ok with me