Help with a "Basic" audio setep!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
The ratings are a pretty good match, plus it would give you a bit of a buffer in the speakers for when you crank it up.
For the power ratings, consider this. The stock radio maxed out at about 20-25w when turned up full blast. Your new HU has a max of 50w of power, but what do you normally keep the volume set at, probably much less than half way. Imagine how loud an amp putting out 75-100w on each channel will be.
Shop around, pick out something you like, there are lots of choices.
The amp I linked to is just an example, but I have it's sister in my car and am very happy with it.
Unless you go with a much more expensive (and smaller) class D amp you may end up having to mount it on the rear wall, but there is more room under the seat in a Z.
For the power ratings, consider this. The stock radio maxed out at about 20-25w when turned up full blast. Your new HU has a max of 50w of power, but what do you normally keep the volume set at, probably much less than half way. Imagine how loud an amp putting out 75-100w on each channel will be.
Shop around, pick out something you like, there are lots of choices.
The amp I linked to is just an example, but I have it's sister in my car and am very happy with it.
Unless you go with a much more expensive (and smaller) class D amp you may end up having to mount it on the rear wall, but there is more room under the seat in a Z.
I actually like what you've shown me better than my first choice as its saves quite a few bucks, and according to Penta should give me a clearer sound!If te components being only slightly underpowered won't cause a problem, then I don't mind - just wanted to make sure as I pretty much in the dark.
Thanks again guys!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,394
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From: Bay Area CA
The one thing I would like to mention, is that speaker ratings from the manufacturers are ALWAYS under rated. For the simple fact that most audio systems when pushed distort, and distortion causes 90% plus of all speaker failures. It is really that simple.
I ran a legitimate 164w per speaker (each tweet, each mid) to a component SET rated at 50w RMS and 200w max peak. Worked flawlessly for over a year before I sold the truck. Speakers still sound great.
Power is a lot like horsepower, you really can not have TOO much. Ideally you want your amp to work as little as possible to provide you with the amplification you are asking from the system. And as long as your signal path is clean (distortion free) and your amp does not clip, it it quite difficult to over power your speakers. Long, high decibel listening to a sub has a chance, but we are talking hours, not minutes.
As for the stock system, it has about 9w per channel at best before it clips, factory HU's rated at 50w are quoting highly distorted numbers, and are much closer to 15-18w per channel of clean, useable power.
Just take a look at the size of your typical 50wx2 amp and ask yourself how your HU is giving out the same power
Fej
I ran a legitimate 164w per speaker (each tweet, each mid) to a component SET rated at 50w RMS and 200w max peak. Worked flawlessly for over a year before I sold the truck. Speakers still sound great.
Power is a lot like horsepower, you really can not have TOO much. Ideally you want your amp to work as little as possible to provide you with the amplification you are asking from the system. And as long as your signal path is clean (distortion free) and your amp does not clip, it it quite difficult to over power your speakers. Long, high decibel listening to a sub has a chance, but we are talking hours, not minutes.
As for the stock system, it has about 9w per channel at best before it clips, factory HU's rated at 50w are quoting highly distorted numbers, and are much closer to 15-18w per channel of clean, useable power.
Just take a look at the size of your typical 50wx2 amp and ask yourself how your HU is giving out the same power
Fej
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
OK guys check this out, I went back to the Power Acoustik Amp after checking reviews, I'd really like to stay away as Penta suggested but I just can't find an amp with the correct Wattage's, for anywhere near the same price! (I'd really like to grab a JL HD 600/4 or 900/5 but the $6-$700 for just the amp is much more than I want to put into the sound system)
Anyway I checked out the Polk site and it seemed like for the little extra it cost's going with the Mobile Monitor Series was a good choice over the DB's so check this out:
-POLK MM1240DVC Sub (Two version are available, I plan to get the 360RMS/720Peak version)
-POLK MM6501 Components (125RMS/250Peak Per Side)
-Power Acoustik BAMF 1600/4 (150 x 4 @ 4 Ohms, Bridged, 4 ohms: 360 watts x 2)
Everything for $380 Delivered Brand New
So what do you guys think?!?
Anyway I checked out the Polk site and it seemed like for the little extra it cost's going with the Mobile Monitor Series was a good choice over the DB's so check this out:
-POLK MM1240DVC Sub (Two version are available, I plan to get the 360RMS/720Peak version)
-POLK MM6501 Components (125RMS/250Peak Per Side)
-Power Acoustik BAMF 1600/4 (150 x 4 @ 4 Ohms, Bridged, 4 ohms: 360 watts x 2)
Everything for $380 Delivered Brand New
So what do you guys think?!?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Haha oh yeah! I'm having some trouble finding the MM series with the 360/720W rather than 425/800W specs, would it be okay to run the 425/800 with only 360 coming from the amp, or would it stress the amp or just not sound right?
Oh, and out of curiosity, whats the difference in Single vs Double, obviously 1vs2 voice coils but what make 1 better?
Oh, and out of curiosity, whats the difference in Single vs Double, obviously 1vs2 voice coils but what make 1 better?
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,035
Likes: 134
From: North Augusta, SC
Feeding 360 to a sub rated 425 is perfectly OK.
Single isn't any better than DVC, but for your application it's the way you need to go.
Read post #13. A DVC sub has 4 electrical terminals (2 pair). Each PAIR is rated at 4 ohms. The amp is looking for a single 4 ohm load. It's not possible to wire two 4 ohm loads in a way that the amp will actually see 4 ohms, it's either series (8 ohm load) or parallel (2 ohm load).
The single coil sub has one pair of terminals rated at 4 ohms. The amp is looking for 4 ohms, it's a match made in heaven
Single isn't any better than DVC, but for your application it's the way you need to go.
Read post #13. A DVC sub has 4 electrical terminals (2 pair). Each PAIR is rated at 4 ohms. The amp is looking for a single 4 ohm load. It's not possible to wire two 4 ohm loads in a way that the amp will actually see 4 ohms, it's either series (8 ohm load) or parallel (2 ohm load).
The single coil sub has one pair of terminals rated at 4 ohms. The amp is looking for 4 ohms, it's a match made in heaven
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Ok, Looks like I'm gonna go with this setup:
-POLK DB1240 Sub (360RMS/720Peak)
-POLK MM6501 Components (125RMS/250Peak Per Side)
-Power Acoustik BAMF 1600/4 (150 x 4 @ 4 Ohms, Bridged, 4 ohms: 360 watts x 2)
What else will I need to get this setup working and sounding good? It looks like the amp will only accept 4AWG Power/Grounds; will this be enough going from the battery to the passenger seat? This is what I'm looking at:
Knukonceptz:
-4AWG Power (How many feet to get from the battery, to the passenger seat?)
-4AWG Ground (How many feet to the nearest Ground)
-6 Meter RCA Cables (I Need these to connect HU to amp correct?)
-BatteryTerminal Connection
Fuses:
Where should I place the fuses, and how to I determine the fuse size needed?
I've got a bunch of some 12G Esoteric Audio speaker wire, is this good enough for the speaker wire?
Anything I'm missing other than box, and speaker templates?
-POLK DB1240 Sub (360RMS/720Peak)
-POLK MM6501 Components (125RMS/250Peak Per Side)
-Power Acoustik BAMF 1600/4 (150 x 4 @ 4 Ohms, Bridged, 4 ohms: 360 watts x 2)
What else will I need to get this setup working and sounding good? It looks like the amp will only accept 4AWG Power/Grounds; will this be enough going from the battery to the passenger seat? This is what I'm looking at:
Knukonceptz:
-4AWG Power (How many feet to get from the battery, to the passenger seat?)
-4AWG Ground (How many feet to the nearest Ground)
-6 Meter RCA Cables (I Need these to connect HU to amp correct?)
-BatteryTerminal Connection
Fuses:
Where should I place the fuses, and how to I determine the fuse size needed?
I've got a bunch of some 12G Esoteric Audio speaker wire, is this good enough for the speaker wire?
Anything I'm missing other than box, and speaker templates?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
Speaker templates you need, i can make some for you if you like
12ga will be great
IMO 4ga isnt necessary, you could prly get away with 8ga but its ur call
I havent been doing as much with knukonceptz anymore i am ordering 99% of my wiring from darvex. Where do you plan on putting the amp
12ga will be great
IMO 4ga isnt necessary, you could prly get away with 8ga but its ur call
I havent been doing as much with knukonceptz anymore i am ordering 99% of my wiring from darvex. Where do you plan on putting the amp
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Speaker templates you need, i can make some for you if you like
12ga will be great
IMO 4ga isnt necessary, you could prly get away with 8ga but its ur call
I havent been doing as much with knukonceptz anymore i am ordering 99% of my wiring from darvex. Where do you plan on putting the amp
12ga will be great
IMO 4ga isnt necessary, you could prly get away with 8ga but its ur call
I havent been doing as much with knukonceptz anymore i am ordering 99% of my wiring from darvex. Where do you plan on putting the amp
Is the list I put up before pretty much everything though? Except a remote wire. And what about the fuses, were should I put fuses, and how do I determine the size?
The thread I'm referring to the guy had the same DB Sub, in a box low enough to cover the sub with another board; were did that member get those parts as I'm looking to do the same. I may just make the stuff depending on prices, but were can I get matching carpet ebony carpet?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
OH, I noticed most of your installs use a sound deadener in the door, should I get this? How much of it do I need to cover just the basics of were is NEEDS to be (not the entire interior) and it there a preferred brand?
Also will this work to connect to my OEM battery? http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDe...fm?prodID=GMBT
Also will this work to connect to my OEM battery? http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDe...fm?prodID=GMBT
Last edited by ls1impulse; Nov 10, 2009 at 08:07 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
it was a 10" sub, thats the only way to get a stealth box and fit it under the cover, 10" will be less bass then the 12" but will still pound hard, either one will work great
some people screw it down under the seat, we just velcro'd it it wont go anywhere, we had to cut the carpet to gain some clearance and even then the seat was rubbing a bit when moving it so we put a washer under each seat mounting point and that fixed it all.
some people screw it down under the seat, we just velcro'd it it wont go anywhere, we had to cut the carpet to gain some clearance and even then the seat was rubbing a bit when moving it so we put a washer under each seat mounting point and that fixed it all.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Hmm. Oh well, ill see what I can fab up - maybe it will fit in a fiberglass box?
What about the wire lenghts? Will 18Ft of power and 3 feet of ground be enough?
Will the previous posted battery terminal work on my OEM battery?
What size fuse, and where? Just one inline on the power I'm assuming but how do I determine the fuse size?
How much/what kind of deadening?
What about the wire lenghts? Will 18Ft of power and 3 feet of ground be enough?
Will the previous posted battery terminal work on my OEM battery?
What size fuse, and where? Just one inline on the power I'm assuming but how do I determine the fuse size?
How much/what kind of deadening?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Any help with the last questions would be great! I really want to get everything ordered so I can install/enjoy this a little before that car goes away for the winter!
Last edited by ls1impulse; Nov 10, 2009 at 10:31 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,035
Likes: 134
From: North Augusta, SC
Order one of the all-in-one 8-gauge amp wiring kits off of ebay. It will have the fuse, holder, fittings, and more than enough wire, plus cost less than buying the parts individually. Put the fuse as close to the battery as possible. You can use a seat mounting bolt as the ground, or even better is a factory ground point along the wall right behind where the seat belt roller reel jigamabob is.
You can get small 3/4" MDF pieces for the sub box at Home Depot. Lowes has it also, but around here they only carry the 4'x8' sheets.
The wiring kit might come with RCA cables if you're lucky, if not 6' (or 2 meter) should be plenty. 6 meters is enough to wrap the car in a bow
You can get small 3/4" MDF pieces for the sub box at Home Depot. Lowes has it also, but around here they only carry the 4'x8' sheets.
The wiring kit might come with RCA cables if you're lucky, if not 6' (or 2 meter) should be plenty. 6 meters is enough to wrap the car in a bow
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Order one of the all-in-one 8-gauge amp wiring kits off of ebay. It will have the fuse, holder, fittings, and more than enough wire, plus cost less than buying the parts individually. Put the fuse as close to the battery as possible. You can use a seat mounting bolt as the ground, or even better is a factory ground point along the wall right behind where the seat belt roller reel jigamabob is.
You can get small 3/4" MDF pieces for the sub box at Home Depot. Lowes has it also, but around here they only carry the 4'x8' sheets.
The wiring kit might come with RCA cables if you're lucky, if not 6' (or 2 meter) should be plenty. 6 meters is enough to wrap the car in a bow
You can get small 3/4" MDF pieces for the sub box at Home Depot. Lowes has it also, but around here they only carry the 4'x8' sheets.
The wiring kit might come with RCA cables if you're lucky, if not 6' (or 2 meter) should be plenty. 6 meters is enough to wrap the car in a bow
Do you have any experience with the deadening? I checked out penta's installs and it looks like he uses e-dead; any idea how much i'd need for the door and the trunk area? (i installed some BB Bullets with my LT's/ORX and the drone's killin me!)
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,035
Likes: 134
From: North Augusta, SC
I did the Frost King portion of this DIY, but only in the hatch area. I believe it takes 4 rolls to do the entire car.
It looks like that amp uses two 25A fuses, so the one on your supply should be at least 50A. 120A might be a tad big, see if you can get one around 50-75A.
It looks like that amp uses two 25A fuses, so the one on your supply should be at least 50A. 120A might be a tad big, see if you can get one around 50-75A.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Gettysburg PA
Everythings here but the wiring kit, I'm planning to do the install and see how I like the sound of fronts only, but assuming I do end up wanting rear speakers, can anyone recommend a good speaker to run off the HU?
I was considering either Polk db501's, or Rockford Fosgate P152C's
I was considering either Polk db501's, or Rockford Fosgate P152C's
