What is the main reason for installing amps in a radio system. Are aftermarket amps better than the one in the radio? I've never used them before but want a nice sound system in the Vette. Thanks.

 

We basically have amps in our stereo systems for the same reason we have engines in our cars.

Think of the head unit like Fred Flintstone's engine when compared to pretty much any modern amp.

 

Is the radio without an amp that bad? I never heard a system that had amps so have nothing to go by. Even the cheap amps are better?

Moon

 

Ok, I'll give this a try. Think of the head unit as an electric guitar. You CAN play it unplugged (without running though an amplifier) and it DOES makes sound; but it SOUNDS better when played though an amplifier; agreed?

BTW, you might want to run by your local audio store, maybe that would clear things up a bit seeing as how you've never seen or heard a set up driven by an amp.

 

Ok. Think I got the idea. Pre amp signal from the radio run thru a bigger, cleaner amp is much better than the radio amp. Will try to get to a sound shop to compare. Thanks.

Moon

 

I think he is referring to the built in amps in the head unit. I'm using the built in amps for my two rear speakers. It works fine and I doubt an external amp would produce any better sound. The front speakers and sub are driven by an external amp.

 

I disagree with you fperra. As Kale mentioned, if you compare amps to engines, the engine in the HU or the factory "external" amp is like a 3 cylinder Geo Metro motor compared to an LSx engine. More power, better components, more durability, less heat etc etc.

Take your typical "50watt x 4" headunit. Then take a look at your typical "50x4" external amp. You will notice a large difference in size, size of caps/components, heat sinks etc etc. The headunit is really about a 14w amp at best. But will "peak" at 50w for a very small moment in time, at very high distortion, which could result in damage to the speakers.

Taking a sound from say 60db to 70db takes a lot of power, or more speakers. Let's say your current factory stereo gets to 90db. If you add twice the current power (say from 80 total watts to 160 total watts) that system in theory with the same signal level and drivers should be able to play at 93db. To go to 96 db would take 320 total watts etc etc. The other option is to buy more efficient speakers. Take a speaker rated to playback at 86db 1w/1m (1 watt / 1 meter) Buying a 90db efficient speaker would play back 4db higher with the same signal level, ohm load, and system power.

I can assure you there is a large difference between a quality external amp and anything the factory installs, or what comes with the headunit. One disclaimer, you go to Kragen and buy an amp, I have no idea what you might end up with. But even bottom of the barrel Best Buy level amps will be far superior to your factory power when installed and tuned correctly. (Ok so two disclaimers, but the latter should be a given )

G'luck
Fej

 

Thanks for the info. Much more reading to do on this forum to try and get up to speed in an area I'm not familiar with.

Moon

 

There are a lot of quality amps and a lot of bad amps out right now.
I generally stick with the Arc Audio brand. They are always fairly priced and they build really great amps.

 

I have always done aftermarket equipment so I can.......
1. play music louder
2. sounds better
3. still hear music w/ windows down at higher speeds
4. feel bass (i will never grow up)
5. much less distortion

All of these reasons are assuming you pick at least descent aftermarket equipment and proper installation

 

I don't disagree with your reasoning Fej, but fperra was speaking specifically about driving the rear speakers with the built in amps. In that instance, the added output (and better dynamic range, lower distortion, lower noise floor, etc, etc) of an external amplifier is probably completely wasted. Especially in a C6, with the location of the speakers, and the inherent noise floor.

To the OP - adding an external amplifer will make a difference - but a big factor is the speakers it's driving. Going back to the car analogy - you could drop a LS3 engine into a Honda Fit, but you'd be limiting it's performance to the best the chassis/tires can do. Likewise, a C6 with the Honda's engine really wouldn't perform much better than the Honda Fit.

External amps should provide more power, extended higher and lower frequencies, and have lower inherent noise. More power will enable you to drive speakers which peform better, but which require more power. Better sound out of the amp will be more noticable with speakers that can reproduce sound across a wider spectrum, and which may have more detail in the sound that's output.

In short - if you're using speakers designed for maximum efficiency (coaxial, low power handling Pioneers for example), adding an extra amplifier may produce better sound, but only to a point. If on the other hand, you're using speakers designed to handle higher power loads (and maybe not as efficient), you really need an external amp to drive them.

Bigger speakers (like subwoofers) need more power, and less efficient speakers need more power. Cleaner power is almost always better (C6 rear speakers are definitely an exception).

The Arc Audio amps are great, but for much less you could pick up some of the Clarion amplifiers (DPX or XH series- similar circuit design from Nokola audio for Arc and Clarion), and in most cases, never hear a difference (how sensitive your ears are, whether the car was sitting with the engine off, or running, how accurately the speakers reproduce the sound - all would impact whether there's a "real" difference to the ear). And the money saved might be better spend upgrading the speakers.

Just my $0.02!

 

I agree with most of what you are saying. But I think one of the main differences in our explanations is that a speaker that is tuned to play back its optimal/most efficient frequency range can, and will, benefit tremendously from increased clean power.

You can take a $1000 driver rated for 100w minimum power handling and feed it 35 dirty, distorted watts and damage it. You can take a $7 driver rated for 30w and send it 200 clean watts when it is tuned properly and playing the correct frequency range with great results. Granted these are not continuous watts, but RMS ratings.

I have personally run a component system (6.5/tweet) rated at 50w per side (both drivers) at 165w per driver, or 330 per side, with great performance and zero ill effects.

I won't even get in to the whole rear speaker thing, to each their own. If you watch 5.1 movies or something I totally understand. When the desired outcome is to replicate a sound stage or stage at a concert, ask yourself if you have ever seen "rear fill" speakers at a concert.

And car audio is all about compromise, it is a horrible environment to try and have a great audio experience in. That is why tons of "car audio" guys end up with simple aftermarket systems in their cars, and very nice home systems.

G'luck to the OP
Fej

 

when you are looking at amps,keep in mind that the purpose of an external power amp is NOT to make the music louder. the purpose is to create a clearer and cleaner signal at a higher wattage. Sure, it CAN get louder, but that is not what you are looking for. Also, if you upgrade a speaker amp, you will need to upgrade the speakers. remember the whole system is only as good as your weakest link. which then also means you should upgrade your head unit to something with 5 channel pre-outs.

good luck.

 

Personally, I like my setup because it's cleaner, more detailed, and louder!

What do you mean by 5 channel pre-outs from the deck? Are you thinnking for surround? or Front/Rear/Sub? In a car like the Vette, I'm not sure you would need 5 channel out from the deck.

 

Generally, tuning and eq aside,

Speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality. Followed by good, clean wattage.

 

yes i mean 4 channels plus sub. but you are right, not a big deal in a 2 seat car...but i still like a little rear fill

 

Yup - 5 channel out can be helpful if you're adding a subwoofer amp. But it seems these days every amp has built in crossovers, so I wouldn't say it's a really high priority. But I do love the controllable outputs on my Excelon head unit.

 

I have a Pioneer AVH4200 DD and I replaced the rears with some Polk DB speakers and the fronts with the Polk DB 3.5" so I'm still using the stock BOSE amps/woofers. I'm thinking of adding a sub and an amp and changing the fronts to components. Should I go with a 4 or 5 ch amp? If I go with a 4 channel amp should it power the sub and the front
components and does that mean that the h/u powers the rears and does that mean I have to rewire the rears as well or should I go with a 5 channel and rewire everything...that also means I don't need to use the wire harness anymore, right?

 

The ultimate goal of any amplifier is to increase the power of the input signal with as little distortion as possible. This is where a clean input signal source comes into play since any imperfection will be magnified by even the best amplifier. Assuming an amplifier is matched with the proper speaker, the additional wattage provides more power and control over the cone movements. This results in a cleaner sound when played at high volumes and more precise reproduction of mid and lower frequencies.

 

Personally I would go with a 4 channel amp, just running the front and the sub off the amp. The rear speakers are in a really bad position for reproducing sound (mostly blocked by the seat, the output mainly is heard through the center of the car - meaning your right ear hears both the left and right rear channels - and your left ear hears almost nothing). You want to de-emphasize those speakers as much as possible (many people don't even run them). So running them directly off the deck, you should have enough power for "rear fill", and any sound quality difference between the head unit and external amplification would really be lost.

So when hooking up the new amp and component/sub speakers, you'll wire those off the amp, and pretty much leave the rear (and center) speakers the way they are off the deck. Or maybe disconnnect those entirely (easy to try - just wire everything up, and then disconnect the output from the deck to the stock amplifier to compare).

One other thing you may consider - a 5 channel amplifier running the components in a "bi-amp" mode (2 channels going to the tweeters, 2 to the mid/woofers, and one to the sub). It may be a little more complicated (you'll need a crossover or amp with a crossover that can run that properly), but it will give you more flexibility for the front speakers, which are the critical element for good sound.