I use Imation CD-R's and they work just fine in my Alpine. Of course, I also rip my MP3's at 192kbps, discrete stereo.

You might want to up your bitrate.

 

Everyone, I am an audio fanatic (home and car) and I will try to set this straight.

ALL CD-Rs are created equal. The only differences are the length(74 or 80 min.) and whether they are formatted for audio or data. Discs formatted for audio will play in more types of CD players, which you might only notice if you have an older or cheap CD player. Some CD players won't play music burned on 80 min. or data CD-Rs. Some will play them, but skip very easily. About the only thing the color does is that the darker the underside of the disc, the better the laser can pick up the digital 1s and 0s. Namely, black CD-Rs will track better than normal silver undersided discs. You may not have a problem with any CD-Rs if you have a modern cd player. The only time you have problems is if you have an older or cheap cd player.

MP3s always sound worse than the origional CD. Duped CDs only sound worse than the origional if you copy them from an already copied CD. Any defects in the copy are made worse by making a copy of of the copy.

128 kbits/sec is the standard bit rate for mp3 compression. You will notice on a good stereo setup a "warbling" noise in the background that gets worse when the music gets complicated. This "warbling" is present at every bitrate, to a greater or lesser extent. Even at 392 kbits/sec you can hear it. Also, when the music get "busy" and complicated, you will be able to hear a fair amount of distortion on the quieter instruments. If you have a good stereo, with a set of quick subs, or really good set of woofers, you can notice a good reduction in the "punch" of the bass. Extremely low (subsonic) frequencies are also mangled by mp3 compression.

An alternative to mp3, WMA (Windows Media Audio) usually has less distortion with complicated music. It still has the same characteristics of mp3 compression, just to a smaller extent. However, WMA compression will reduce the bass output of the music quite a bit, even though the bass stays cleaner and punchier than mp3.

Your CD burner and CD-ROM usually don't have an affect on the quality of the copied CD, but some add quiet pops and clicks to a cd. Again, this is only noticed with a good set of speakers and a decent amp.

What sounds good to you is your opinion, but a $2 CD-R and a $.10 CD-R will ultimately sound EXACTLY the same, with the same music, burned on the same burner.

By the way, if you ever install a stereo in your car, please balance the highs, mids, and lows. I can't stand it when people think they have a stereo when they just sticks a couple subs and an amp in thier trunk. SOUND QUALITY IS KEY TO A GOOD CAR STEREO!! Rattling every body and trim panel with bass doesn't make it a good system.

Thanks for reading my rattling on here, if you ever have a question about stereos in general just e-mail me.

As Cerwin-Vega! puts it:
TURN IT UP!


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 6:08 PM 7/31/2002]

 

Hey Waco, Why will my GM chanager only play Maxell CDR's and only when burned at 8X. Strange or what? Have a answer for that? Michael :rolleyes:

 

I'm sorry Waco, but you're just not correct. Different CDR brands can have enormously different recording quality. You can burn the exact same data (be it audio, computer data, video game), with the exact same burner, at the exact same recording speed and get different quality results.

Here is an excellent starting point for more information regarding CDR media quality: http://www.cdfreaks.com/document.php3?Doc=51

It all boils down to the dye used on the discs. Different dyes will definitely make a difference in the recorded properties of the CDR. The biggest impact will be on the longevity of the disk. Lighter, green dyes will only last for a very short period.

There is also a significant difference with how audio and non-audio data is stored on the disk. This only becomes relevant when it is true audio data. An mp3 is not true audio. Burning multiple copies of mp3s will never decrease in quality. However, a true audio CD will ALWAYS loose a small amount of quality as it is copied.

I can track down some sources to back this if you like, but I am a computer engineer and have researched this extensively.

Another good summary...although dated, virtually all of it still applies. http://www.gammathon.com/files/cdrreview.html

 

I was talking about copying a non-mp3 cd. Any defects in the original are reproduced in the copies. Then if you copy the copies, they get worse.

Also, when I was discussing mp3s, I was talking about making a normal cd-player compatible disc from the mp3s. I never said that the quality will go down, except when making copies of a copy.

I wasn't discussing the shelf life of the recorded cds, just the sound quality and playability in most CD decks. I have used tons of CD-Rs, and have never had any quality problems from one kind to the next. I'm pretty sure I would notice a difference if there was one. I could be wrong, I'm just going on my own experiences with hundreds of CD-Rs, many burners, and lots of music.

The article you are referring to in your post says that read retries must be performed on lower quality discs(lighter color dye), I said in my post that darker discs track better, which results in less retries (better pickup of the digital signal). The effect of missing 1 or 2 bits in terms of music is nothing, even when played loudly.


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 10:19 PM 7/31/2002]

 

Are you finalizing your discs? Are they 80 min discs? It's usually hit or miss with most cd players and those two factors.

GM changers are not "officially" CD-R or CD-RW compatible. They will play some of them, but not others.

:mad By the way, please don't flame me for just trying to help. I do the best I can with what I know. Thanks! :mad


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 10:18 PM 7/31/2002]

 

I didn't mean to suggest that you did. I apologize if I came across that way. I was just trying to summarize the point (that we obviously agree on!).

The difference in dyes will affect more than just the longevity of the disk, especially when making a true audio copy (vs an mp3 cd). Just as with the shelf life, the lighter green the disk, the more of a chance that there will be noticable defects in the recording. I have noticed significant deficiencies in low quality disks ranging from volume fluctuation to distortion to skipping.

Yes you did, and I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you on that point. The issue I disagreed with was your statement that all CDRs are equal in recording results. Certinaly missing a few bits will not affect the listening level. That level of deviance is well below the Nyquist threshold (which governs the amount of compression you can do without audible affects). The problem with cheaper dye disks is that the dye does not have a consistent composition throughout the entire CDR, and that can lead to much more than just 1 or 2 bits of noise.

 

Dude...I wasn't flaming at all! Just trying to have an educated conversation :cheers:

 

Thanks for the clarification on those points. I wasn't directing that no flaming message at you, it was for Fast Red Vette.

I didn't realize it until now, but the only discs (color wise) that I use for music are darker (dark blue, dark green, black). I didn't intentionally buy them that way, but that's why I haven't noticed any problems with the lighter colored ones(non-black). I did notice that the black undersided discs don't skip in my home cd player as much when I crank up the volume. I enjoy talking about anything music/home or car audio, and I try to help when I can. The forum is great for that! Oh, yeah. And car stuff. :D

By the way, nice car! :cheers:


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 8:13 AM 8/1/2002]

 

What kind of reciever is that in your car? I can't make out any names.

Have you done any other stereo mods? Speakers, wiring, amps? If you haven't rewired the car for the new speakers, I recomend getting high quality 12-14 gauge wire and run it for each speaker. It makes a world of difference! That is unless you've still got the bose speakers and amps in there.

 

It's an Eclipse 5442. Did you look at the second page of pictures that I have? I'd say I've a few more mods than just the HU! And yes, all the wiring has been completely replaced as well.

Eclipse 5442 HU
DynAudio System 240 MKII Components
JL Audio 12W3 in a custom sealed fiberglass box
Audiocontrol EQS
Phoenix Gold QX4150 (running Dyns)
Phoenix Gold QX2350 (bridged running 12W3)

I'm replacing the amps tomorrow with a JL 300/2 for the Dyns and a JL 250/1 for the sub.

 

OH! I missed the next page link at the bottom of the gallery. Very, very nice setup. Did you do all the work yourself?

The JL 300/2 and 250/1 are an extremely nice set of amps. Even power at all resistances. Great sound quality. Nice choice!
Do you have a capacitor or anything for power reserves? Or is the stock alternator up to the job?

Now... don't laugh, but here are my specs. I did all the installation and setup. Also-I came out with this setup for about 600 bucks!

Jensen CD440k reciever (about to be changed for a Jensen intellicar)
Blaupunkt xt series coaxials:
2= 4"x6"
2= 4"
2= triaxial 6"x9"
4 gauge EFX wires for power and ground
12 gauge speaker wire all around, subs are 8 gauge
Frontier amp(model number?) 2 channel 400 watt-on a splitter to all interior speakers
Profile 600sx 450 watt rms 2 channel amp-bridged for the subs
2 JBL GT series- 12" 8ohm voice coil both in a 2.5 cf enclosure by Q-logic
1 Farad capacitor
105 amp alternator


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 12:20 PM 8/1/2002]


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 12:20 PM 8/1/2002]

 

I had it professionally done. I know enough to make it sound right, but I don't have any experience actually installing and the last thing I wanted was for the system to look like crap.

I had intended on getting the JL amps when I first did the install, but I had a preset limit that I didn't want to go above...the PGs are decent amps, but the 4150 clips at a volume that is WAY below what the dyns can handle.


I wish! ;)

Looks like you did pretty well!...You like the 4x6 and 6x9s better than sphericals? I've had a few 6x9s and were always disappointed with them.

Guess we kinda deviated from the CDR topic :rolleyes:

 

Didn't like them better, but on a budget, I had to get what would fit in the stock locations. They sound ok as long as you don't push them with too much bass. The 4" speakers in the doors took me forever to mod the doors so they would fit with the window down.

Round speakers almost always sound better, but I didn't have the time or the money to mod the car so that 5 1/2 or 61/4s would fit. As it is, I spent a ton of time rewiring the entire car from the battery forward. But, for 600 bucks, it sounds great!

It still is nowhere near my home stereo. That's right, not surround, stereo. I have a pair of Cerwin-Vega! E-series 2 towers. The 12" woofer model, the 15" version was just too unbalanced. Component everything, Hafler DH220 amp, Proton P1100 preamp, Sony 5 disc changer (old ES model), Nakamichi single well tape deck, NAD tuner. The amp is 200 watts continuous at 8 ohms, no clue what at 4. The Cerwin-Vegas are absolutely the loudest, most durable, and efficient speakers you can buy for $400. They sound great at all volumes, including window breaking volumes(ouch, that hurt the wallet).

Who cares what topic we led to? Does it matter? :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 12:42 PM 8/1/2002]


[Modified by TheWacoKid, 12:44 PM 8/1/2002]