Suggestion for a Headunit from DD Mods
09-25-2017, 05:29 PM
#181
Drifting
So I have a DSP, it ia temporarily wired. When I get to install my Alpine i will not wire the DSP and see how it sounds. I will then mount the DSP where I want it and wire it in
Unfortunately I need to get my foot fixed and I will not be able to move around easily for the 6 weeks (Approx) then I might be able to work on the car. I might find time to remove the Dash pad this evening
Unfortunately I need to get my foot fixed and I will not be able to move around easily for the 6 weeks (Approx) then I might be able to work on the car. I might find time to remove the Dash pad this evening
09-26-2017, 10:00 AM
#182
Race Director
Thread Starter
I cannot wait to be able to install it all.. I am so busy this week and next Wednesday I get my foot fixed which will lay me up for a while
11-01-2017, 02:51 AM
#183
Southern Piedmont Area
Originally Posted by RaceBum
You basically ran your mouth before doing even one iota of research.
Since you disparage "features," you probably have an Alpine entry-level to mid-level radio in your dash.
You see a post from someone mentioning a high-end Pioneer and you subsequently start your reply with a sentence that sounds like it's from an adolescent with a chip on his shoulder.
C'mon, grow up Kyle.
Now, allow me to briefly reply to the rest of your post, wherein you extolled the merits of Alpines as if they're the best thing to come along since night baseball.
Alpines of today do not have the same quality that they once had, say 20 years ago.
Go out to a serious audiophile forum and submit a post full of the Alpine hyperbole that you put in your post to me...and they'll laugh you to scorn.
Regards,
-Ward
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carls2004 (11-01-2017)
11-01-2017, 09:58 AM
#184
Race Director
Thread Starter
If my Nakamichi single DIN had bluetooth and I could accept calls on it.. It would still be in my car. It sits on a shelf and I cannot let that one go..
Everyone has opinions, back in the 90s, most my friends had Pioneer, They sounded fine, I just did not care for the ergonomics and layout. I was running an Eclipse ECD-413. Everyone has their own tastes and experiences
I bought the Alpine INE-W960, Testing it with Computer speakers I know it will sound good in my car. I bought it used about $250. looks great and if I truly don't like it I will buy something else
11-01-2017, 02:34 PM
#185
Drifting
While I believe that to be true, that statement can also be applied to Pioneer, Kenwood, Eclipse (no longer in US), Nakamichi (no longer in US).
If my Nakamichi single DIN had bluetooth and I could accept calls on it.. It would still be in my car. It sits on a shelf and I cannot let that one go..
Everyone has opinions, back in the 90s, most my friends had Pioneer, They sounded fine, I just did not care for the ergonomics and layout. I was running an Eclipse ECD-413. Everyone has their own tastes and experiences
I bought the Alpine INE-W960, Testing it with Computer speakers I know it will sound good in my car. I bought it used about $250. looks great and if I truly don't like it I will buy something else
If my Nakamichi single DIN had bluetooth and I could accept calls on it.. It would still be in my car. It sits on a shelf and I cannot let that one go..
Everyone has opinions, back in the 90s, most my friends had Pioneer, They sounded fine, I just did not care for the ergonomics and layout. I was running an Eclipse ECD-413. Everyone has their own tastes and experiences
I bought the Alpine INE-W960, Testing it with Computer speakers I know it will sound good in my car. I bought it used about $250. looks great and if I truly don't like it I will buy something else
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...head-unit.html
I thought this was an interesting thread also, which comprises a list of what is generally accepted as junk, questionable, good, and high end car audio equipment. I still see Alpine on the high end list for head units and signal processors:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=337891
11-01-2017, 03:20 PM
#186
Burning Brakes
Oh, man The Naks were awesome back in the day. I'm not really seeing the alleged bashing of Alpine the other poster is referring to, almost the opposite:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...head-unit.html
I thought this was an interesting thread also, which comprises a list of what is generally accepted as junk, questionable, good, and high end car audio equipment. I still see Alpine on the high end list for head units and signal processors:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=337891
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...head-unit.html
I thought this was an interesting thread also, which comprises a list of what is generally accepted as junk, questionable, good, and high end car audio equipment. I still see Alpine on the high end list for head units and signal processors:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=337891
Last edited by carls2004; 11-01-2017 at 03:26 PM.
11-01-2017, 03:50 PM
#187
Race Director
this is the entire problem with deck choice and car audio in general
on one hand you have people who buy on the spec sheet and want certain features. this is their prime consideration
on the other you have people trying to recreate a home hi-fi system and may or may not care about said features
two of the best decks on the planet have no features to speak of at all, the mcintosh and sony rsx-gs9
if someone mentions decks now my first question is what they want out of it.
many of us have went to alpine because they are reasonably good sounding and have various features we use in day to day life. kenwood did step up the game with the 9904s which is another decent day to day choice.
the twofold problem i see is #1 some people have more particular hearing than others and #2 in a car the entire car affects the stereo. everything from the deck to the sound dampening and driver placement affects the sound you hear. it can get expensive if you even do a mid level install
there is also a 3rd problem and that is high end car audio is dying just like high end home audio in america. it's very niche. most people want features and low cost
The following users liked this post:
carls2004 (11-01-2017)
11-01-2017, 04:42 PM
#188
Burning Brakes
this is the entire problem with deck choice and car audio in general
on one hand you have people who buy on the spec sheet and want certain features. this is their prime consideration
on the other you have people trying to recreate a home hi-fi system and may or may not care about said features
two of the best decks on the planet have no features to speak of at all, the mcintosh and sony rsx-gs9
if someone mentions decks now my first question is what they want out of it.
many of us have went to alpine because they are reasonably good sounding and have various features we use in day to day life. kenwood did step up the game with the 9904s which is another decent day to day choice.
the twofold problem i see is #1 some people have more particular hearing than others and #2 in a car the entire car affects the stereo. everything from the deck to the sound dampening and driver placement affects the sound you hear. it can get expensive if you even do a mid level install
there is also a 3rd problem and that is high end car audio is dying just like high end home audio in america. it's very niche. most people want features and low cost
on one hand you have people who buy on the spec sheet and want certain features. this is their prime consideration
on the other you have people trying to recreate a home hi-fi system and may or may not care about said features
two of the best decks on the planet have no features to speak of at all, the mcintosh and sony rsx-gs9
if someone mentions decks now my first question is what they want out of it.
many of us have went to alpine because they are reasonably good sounding and have various features we use in day to day life. kenwood did step up the game with the 9904s which is another decent day to day choice.
the twofold problem i see is #1 some people have more particular hearing than others and #2 in a car the entire car affects the stereo. everything from the deck to the sound dampening and driver placement affects the sound you hear. it can get expensive if you even do a mid level install
there is also a 3rd problem and that is high end car audio is dying just like high end home audio in america. it's very niche. most people want features and low cost
Last edited by carls2004; 11-01-2017 at 04:45 PM.
11-01-2017, 05:19 PM
#189
Drifting
this is the entire problem with deck choice and car audio in general
on one hand you have people who buy on the spec sheet and want certain features. this is their prime consideration
on the other you have people trying to recreate a home hi-fi system and may or may not care about said features
two of the best decks on the planet have no features to speak of at all, the mcintosh and sony rsx-gs9
if someone mentions decks now my first question is what they want out of it.
many of us have went to alpine because they are reasonably good sounding and have various features we use in day to day life. kenwood did step up the game with the 9904s which is another decent day to day choice.
the twofold problem i see is #1 some people have more particular hearing than others and #2 in a car the entire car affects the stereo. everything from the deck to the sound dampening and driver placement affects the sound you hear. it can get expensive if you even do a mid level install
there is also a 3rd problem and that is high end car audio is dying just like high end home audio in america. it's very niche. most people want features and low cost
on one hand you have people who buy on the spec sheet and want certain features. this is their prime consideration
on the other you have people trying to recreate a home hi-fi system and may or may not care about said features
two of the best decks on the planet have no features to speak of at all, the mcintosh and sony rsx-gs9
if someone mentions decks now my first question is what they want out of it.
many of us have went to alpine because they are reasonably good sounding and have various features we use in day to day life. kenwood did step up the game with the 9904s which is another decent day to day choice.
the twofold problem i see is #1 some people have more particular hearing than others and #2 in a car the entire car affects the stereo. everything from the deck to the sound dampening and driver placement affects the sound you hear. it can get expensive if you even do a mid level install
there is also a 3rd problem and that is high end car audio is dying just like high end home audio in america. it's very niche. most people want features and low cost
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carls2004 (11-01-2017)
11-01-2017, 05:22 PM
#190
Burning Brakes
I was thinking of receiver's..
11-02-2017, 02:37 PM
#191
Race Director
audio appreciation in general would be nice though. we have a local hi fi store than is booming. www.echohifi.com they get a lot of traffic. really no one else to compete with them anywhere near by so there is that.
11-04-2017, 12:54 PM
#192
Drifting
oh they totally are. vintage is in with the hip teens and early 20s. i'm just not sure if high end audio is. i think the cost is a big part of it. companies like mcintosh, dynaudio etc. they know they are the best and charge accordingly. it prices fine gear outside the realm of normal people.
audio appreciation in general would be nice though. we have a local hi fi store than is booming. www.echohifi.com they get a lot of traffic. really no one else to compete with them anywhere near by so there is that.
audio appreciation in general would be nice though. we have a local hi fi store than is booming. www.echohifi.com they get a lot of traffic. really no one else to compete with them anywhere near by so there is that.
For me, it was always a dream to own some truly nice gear, so now that I have more income, I am slowly piecing together a nice high end system. It has taken me 25 years to do it though and I am still not satisfied. Call it an addiction!!!
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carls2004 (11-04-2017)
11-04-2017, 02:14 PM
#193
Burning Brakes
The market has definitely narrowed in terms of high end audio, not sure which has more between home or car but both have suffered. One thing I will say though, even back in the heyday of high end audio, it was basically out of reach to the middle class then as it is now. A basic high end audiophile caliber system in the early 90's would check in at about $100K. Even an upper middle class income doesn't usually have that kind of cabbage lying around. I think there could be a resurgence at some point, but we need more companies like Emotiva that produce gear that rivals the much more expensive but at a price point that puts it within reach of the masses. The high end world has really done a horrible job at marketing and reaching potential customers, also. You have to really look to find the real high end stuff and the brick and mortar locations to actually audition and purchase said gear are very few and far between. In my original hometown (25,000 people) there were two fairly high end stores (I managed one) and now there are none. In my present hometown (50,000 people) there was one main higher end store but it closed 5 or 6 years ago. I have to travel to a much more metropolitan area to find the stuff I like to listen to.
For me, it was always a dream to own some truly nice gear, so now that I have more income, I am slowly piecing together a nice high end system. It has taken me 25 years to do it though and I am still not satisfied. Call it an addiction!!!
For me, it was always a dream to own some truly nice gear, so now that I have more income, I am slowly piecing together a nice high end system. It has taken me 25 years to do it though and I am still not satisfied. Call it an addiction!!!
Last edited by carls2004; 11-04-2017 at 02:18 PM.
11-04-2017, 04:14 PM
#194
Race Director
it's a great bang for the buck brand. kind of took over where adcom left off. emo is the entry to real home amplifiers
The following users liked this post:
carls2004 (11-04-2017)
11-04-2017, 10:17 PM
#195
Team Owner
Howdy gang... yup... I am kinda back. Same bogus who put the C4 audio faq together.
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
11-04-2017, 10:35 PM
#197
Race Director
Howdy gang... yup... I am kinda back. Same bogus who put the C4 audio faq together.
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
if you do a proper 3way system like the elate 603, they can sound absolutely amazing but the source unit, music file and most often overlooked amplifiers have to be up to the task. it would also be far far easier and less costly to use the elate 602 in an active 2 way system
1. sony gs9 $1500
2. morel elate 603 $1999 retail, $1500 street price
3. audison thesis quattro $ at least 2500, they are all special order
4. consumer level audison AV quattro 4ch amp $1000 street price
5. audison bit one dsp $549
6. JL audio 10 or 12w6v3 $400-500, sealed qtc 707 alignment
7. jl 600/1v3 subwoofer amplifier $600
that gets you a semi active front stage, high end gear. it gets costly and the amps are large. if you use some class D amp like a JL HD you won't get anywhere near the sound. if you want the elate's to sing you have to feed them with real amplifiers. zapco c2k, phoenix gold ZPA, audison AV at a minimum for that brand. i have heard the elates on an audison thesis and also heard them on a JL HD class D. night and day.....night and day. the brilliant depth and striking realism are gone on the class D. the JL HD is also one of the better class d digital amps a person can buy
if you use the passive crossovers you may have to experiment with resistor values to get the balance right between the 3 and potentially build zobels if you get bleedthrough on crossover points. i can't speak for the elate but there is bleedthrough on the hybrid 602. woofer reaches up higher than it should add a zobel to the woofer and like magic the tonal balance of the set improves greatly
this will be a costly adventure.
high end car audio is still here and low end car audio is actually better. it's just no where near as popular as it was in 1995-2001. it's very niche now. some of the prestige is also gone. the big made in the USA fosgate amps, show cars with 24 subwoofers. you don't see it much anymore.
Last edited by racebum; 11-04-2017 at 10:44 PM.
11-05-2017, 10:04 AM
#198
Drifting
Howdy gang... yup... I am kinda back. Same bogus who put the C4 audio faq together.
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
A few observations....
1. Audio took a major dump about 2001. When the trend to hotrod Civics ended, so did car audio. The final straw was in 2008 when the economy took a bigger dump.
2. In 2000, there were at least 2 good car audio mags, and every sport compact car mag had some section on car audio.
That's all gone now... and thanks to better factory audio, and factory audio that can't be enhanced easily, has all but forced audiophiles underground.
The number of audio shops has been sliced to the bone. The good places are gone, and the only places left are selling cheap, large sub boxes to kids who have little cash... Who care nothing about sound quality.
Which leaves us with this post... there are limited options anymore. Alpine hasn't made a good head unit since the 7998 and that was nearly 15 years ago. Pioneer (DEX-99RS) makes the best head unit on the market, but at $1200, not many ppl are buying.
I went through this debate back in May when I needed a new head unit for my 2006 coupe. After much debate, much research, I ended up with the Kenwood 9903S (the 9904 wasn't out yet). It sounds great, has all the features I needed and wanted and has the right specs to round out a full audio system.
My next debate is what front stage... Morel, Focal... ugh... and I am leaning at 3-ways.
I have decided on a BK Butler tube driver. A new version is due out by Christmas. 2x150. I have a Focal 2 channel that will run the rear stage, a pioneer 800 watt mono (1 ohm stable) to drive the 13" JL Audio (13TW5v2-2).
11-05-2017, 04:03 PM
#199
Team Owner
have you ever heard the pioneer 99 prs? it's the best pioneer ever made but it still sounds like pioneer. i'd much rather have the mcintosh deck or the sony gs9. that sony especially is a bang for the buck deck in high end. really pleasant tonal balance
if you do a proper 3way system like the elate 603, they can sound absolutely amazing but the source unit, music file and most often overlooked amplifiers have to be up to the task. it would also be far far easier and less costly to use the elate 602 in an active 2 way system
1. sony gs9 $1500
2. morel elate 603 $1999 retail, $1500 street price
3. audison thesis quattro $ at least 2500, they are all special order
4. consumer level audison AV quattro 4ch amp $1000 street price
5. audison bit one dsp $549
6. JL audio 10 or 12w6v3 $400-500, sealed qtc 707 alignment
7. jl 600/1v3 subwoofer amplifier $600
that gets you a semi active front stage, high end gear. it gets costly and the amps are large. if you use some class D amp like a JL HD you won't get anywhere near the sound. if you want the elate's to sing you have to feed them with real amplifiers. zapco c2k, phoenix gold ZPA, audison AV at a minimum for that brand. i have heard the elates on an audison thesis and also heard them on a JL HD class D. night and day.....night and day. the brilliant depth and striking realism are gone on the class D. the JL HD is also one of the better class d digital amps a person can buy
if you use the passive crossovers you may have to experiment with resistor values to get the balance right between the 3 and potentially build zobels if you get bleedthrough on crossover points. i can't speak for the elate but there is bleedthrough on the hybrid 602. woofer reaches up higher than it should add a zobel to the woofer and like magic the tonal balance of the set improves greatly
this will be a costly adventure.
high end car audio is still here and low end car audio is actually better. it's just no where near as popular as it was in 1995-2001. it's very niche now. some of the prestige is also gone. the big made in the USA fosgate amps, show cars with 24 subwoofers. you don't see it much anymore.
if you do a proper 3way system like the elate 603, they can sound absolutely amazing but the source unit, music file and most often overlooked amplifiers have to be up to the task. it would also be far far easier and less costly to use the elate 602 in an active 2 way system
1. sony gs9 $1500
2. morel elate 603 $1999 retail, $1500 street price
3. audison thesis quattro $ at least 2500, they are all special order
4. consumer level audison AV quattro 4ch amp $1000 street price
5. audison bit one dsp $549
6. JL audio 10 or 12w6v3 $400-500, sealed qtc 707 alignment
7. jl 600/1v3 subwoofer amplifier $600
that gets you a semi active front stage, high end gear. it gets costly and the amps are large. if you use some class D amp like a JL HD you won't get anywhere near the sound. if you want the elate's to sing you have to feed them with real amplifiers. zapco c2k, phoenix gold ZPA, audison AV at a minimum for that brand. i have heard the elates on an audison thesis and also heard them on a JL HD class D. night and day.....night and day. the brilliant depth and striking realism are gone on the class D. the JL HD is also one of the better class d digital amps a person can buy
if you use the passive crossovers you may have to experiment with resistor values to get the balance right between the 3 and potentially build zobels if you get bleedthrough on crossover points. i can't speak for the elate but there is bleedthrough on the hybrid 602. woofer reaches up higher than it should add a zobel to the woofer and like magic the tonal balance of the set improves greatly
this will be a costly adventure.
high end car audio is still here and low end car audio is actually better. it's just no where near as popular as it was in 1995-2001. it's very niche now. some of the prestige is also gone. the big made in the USA fosgate amps, show cars with 24 subwoofers. you don't see it much anymore.
I have heard the Pioneer, but it was in a show car with tons of bass, so I didn't get a sense of the sound quality... that is the biggest problem with car audio shops taking a crap, there are no places to hear half the gear.
As for listening, have you ever heard a Butler Tube Drive amp? It's up to the task, trust me on this. Pure Class A, with a pair of vacuum tubes to clean up the MOSFET front end. Works very nicely. I had one many years ago, the next version would be #4; I have v1...