How much power do you need to be driving (Watts) before you start needing to install capacitors and/or an extra battery?
I was thinking about 300w for the subs (2-8" JL's) and 165w for the fronts (Focal Utopia components). Is that even a good balance? I don't want the sub to over power the rest of the system, and it's nut to pay for extra wattage if your not going to use it. Is 165w enough power for a set of front component speakers? My criteria is: 75-80 mph with the top down and still hear the music over the wind. :D


[Modified by Randy K, 10:59 PM 11/25/2002]

 

Focal Utopia components LIKE THE POWER.

I'm running mine at over 110 watts per side, and many run theirs at 200 watts

i run my sub at over 230watts. (single 10 IDQ)
you'd need a pretty sick sub to "overwpower" a utopia set.
A pair of 8's wont do it.

stock electrical system




[Modified by Nevermind, 9:57 PM 11/25/2002]

 

Is that 165 watts for the pair? Just wanted to know for clarification. Even if it is 80 watts a side, that will be plenty of power for a set of components. I have about 70 watts on a set of Focal 165k2's and I can crank them until they literally hurt my ears. Trust me 80 watts a side will be plenty when put onto a nice set of components. :yesnod:

 

I'm running an Xtant 403a and its rated power is 400Wrms (100 X 2 and 200 X1) and I'm running stock sytem. Remember that amps are dynamic and will not the draw full current all the time. Unless your running a square wave at 100% duty cycle, the amp will (depending on model) consume anywhere between 10-45 amps under normal operation (assuming matched speaker impedence). If your going for an SPL machine then yeah an upgrade would be in order. Rule of thumb (with an stock alternator of 140 amps) if your under 500W peak, TYPICALLY, no upgrade will be necessary. This also accounts for full accessory loading i.e. defogger, A/C, lights etc. Under this load condition you see voltage drop off but as long as the voltage stays above 12.5 you should be ok (especially at idle where current is at it's lowest). If the voltage starts to sag, upgrade the charging system and maybe a deep cycle battery. If there are other opinions please add to this passage..good luck

kitt

 

So if I replace the stock battery with a deep cycle yellow top for good measure, I shouldn't have any problems? I have heard some people on CF talk about lights dimming. That is what I'm trying to avoid.

 

Those are the speakers I was thinking about getting (acturally the 165W3) rated at 100wrms ea. How do you like the sound quality of the Focal's? What amps do you run? What set up do you have for the subs? Do you buy an amp that is rated greated than the speakers or less? The reason I would think you would want the amp to be rated at more power than the speakers is so you don't operate the amp close to it's peak wattage. Is that the right thinking?

 

90% of that is people who sit at stop lights with the stereo volume on 75% or greater. There by the voltage is droping due to lack of applied alternator power. Remember at idle the alternator is only putting out about 60-70% of its rated ability.

 

The Utopia set will handle 200watts. I'd say power them between 100 and 200 watts.

btw, listen to both the 165W and 165W3.. I went with the two way set after hearing both...

Also, the Utopia's tweeter is very, very loud. It needs to be situated next to the mids or male voices will sound really funky. Would make it seem like 'ol Ozzy has his eggs in a vice, if you know what I mean.

 

A good amp for the focals would have 100x2 -200x2 in power. Actual power varies brand to brand regardless of the rating. For example, 100w in A/D/S power is stronger than 100w in Pioneer or even Rockford Fosgate power. Second, the efficiency of the speaker, or how effeciently they convert power to sound output is a factor. Trying to balance the power by choosing amps that will balance isn't the way to do it. You should choose amps that supply the correct amount of power for the speaker or subs rating at the correct ohm rating, and then balance that power using faders, subwoofer control, bass level controls, amp gains, etc. to balance out the sound.

I'm guessing you want to use the JL 8w3.2 subs. They are rated 125w continuous each at 4 ohm. This would mean you'd want about 125wx2 or 250 x1 to feed them depending on how you wire them.

Check out http://www.mobileaudio.com in the FAQ section on wiring in parallel and series to see your wiring options.
Hope this clears it up.
p.s. here's a killer amp that would work great with this setup: http://www.mmxpress.com/ads/ads_ph30_2.htm


[Modified by 92TripleBlack, 1:33 PM 11/26/2002]

 

A watt is a watt, is a watt no matter who makes the amp. Granted some amps handle power better then others but two amps rated at 200 watts are still 200 watt amps.

I disagree about balancing the power to the subs and the fronts with amps. I don't think you could balance a sub/amp system with 1000w and fronts/amps with 50w with faders and balance controls.
The thought was to get pretty close with the right kind of sub/amp setup that doesn't overpower the front/amp setup. I thought maybe there was some sort or rule of thumb balance... ie 2 watts sub for ever watt of front.

Thanks for the amp suggestion. Is a/d/s a good brand? I'ts a pretty big amp. I'd have to find some more room for it, because of where I want to put it.

 

This is the hot momma that's driving my 165w:
http://www.arcaudio.com/pages/arc2100pg.htm

when i say hot im saying its nice, the amp is cool to the touch after listening to the stereo at full volume for an hour. Built like a tank.

it's 12x8x2.35"


two amps rated at 100watts are not equal.
the difference being...

Look at a low end, like a Jensen 100 watt amp. You test, it makes 80watts. Ehhm... not bad for the price.

say low-mid end like a MTX rated 100 watt amp, you test it, it makes 102 watts. Decent.

Then check out the ARC2100, I believe It's running at 135 watts or more. Great.
Some say 150watts. I don't remember exactly what the birthsheet said, something along those lines.

That's what 92Triple meant.


Now with the "wattage balance" .. watts aren't hte measure. It's all about how loud you hear it from both sides.

My 165W set at "over 100 watts" each side will hit mid 120's in the DB range

my single IDQ10 at "over 230 watts" will hit... mid 120's in the DB range.

They blend together perfectly. I think it's safe to say I could add a second IDQ10 sub and it would still not "overpower" the fronts. Or maybe a single IDMAX. Maybe i will.


[Modified by Nevermind, 12:19 PM 11/26/2002]


[Modified by Nevermind, 12:21 PM 11/26/2002]

 

True, if they are using the same rating system. Since there is no standardized rating system for amps, there are variances. They do disclose how much distortion at a certain output, etc. to try to clarify the system they are using to rate their amps. But power for power, what one company rates 200w is not the same as what another rates 200w. A/D/S is VERY conservative in their ratings. They go more with the philosophy of under promise over deliver.
Again, this would work if the efficiency of the speakers was the same. Most "high end" stuff will be compatable level wise with other stuff if its powered by its specified amount of power. Since one set of speakers, rated 200w, with 200w of power can be quietier and make less SPL than another set of more efficient 100w speakers with 100w of power, you can see what I mean. Most times speakers blow from distortion. They distort usually because they are starved for power. The power provided isn't enought to efficiently move the speaker at the speed needed to make the volume. They start flapping trying to keep up on less power and fry themselves. Rarely do speakers blow from to little power.
Now on to the case at hand:
The subs in question are relatively small and efficient. They like 125w continuous to get the most out of them. They should sound balanced with 250w to the subs and 200wx2 to the speakers.
If he used a 12" IDMAX, he would need much more power to make the sub make as much noise as the JLs, but it also would have more upward potential and move more air. In this case, he would want around 1000w sub, 200wx2 speakers to sound balanced. He would have more bass pressure, not loudness. This is SPL or more air moved. This is the phenomina where you feel the bass but you can hold a normal conversation instead of not being able to talk to someone without screaming but you can't feel the bass.

The speakers on the other hand are power pigs, or inefficient. They barely make enough sound to mimic normanl conversation with 25w of power. They need much more power than most of their peers to make a good amount of noise.
The bottom line, if you start at the recommended wattage, you can go down to zero from there to balance out a system using faders, etc. In 3 years of installing professonally, when high end components were matched up and powered with the correct amount of power, we rarely had to go more that with a 10% reduction/fade, etc. on any given component to get things into balance.

If you are using speakers from the same company, and they are of the same level quality wise(ex: all pro series), then a typical front seperates, rear 12" sub would be about a 1:2 ratio of power. This would bear out if he were using a Focal utopia sub to go with the seperates. Its similar in needs but not quite as high as the IDMAX.


A/D/S is an excellent brand. As I said, it is underrated powerwise vs. its peers. It is large lenght and width but they try to keep it low profile so it will fit under a seat or bolt to the bulkhead behind the passenger seat and take up little space.

 

:thumbs: :thumbs:

 

anyone in houston know where I can go listen to a pair of Focals? I'm going to be in Houston this weekend and would like to hear some good speakers while I'm there.

 

focal-america.com has a dealer locater

 

:thumbs:

Where are you located, nevermind?

 

They most deffinately are NOT!
Explain why my 250 watt rockford does 430! Two important numbers to look at when comparing amps are the volts and the THD.

 

I'm in Sacramento.

The only reason I'm keeping the vette is because of the sound system. Heh. Well, that and I can't sell it. :cry :nopity

 

I'm running a 12w7 sub powered by a 500/1, 2 8"free air subs powered by a 250/1 and a set of 3 way DynAudios powered by 200watts perchannel ADS - all on a stock alternator and a new yellow-top. No power issues at all and its loudere than even I can stand! :D

 

If the rockford does 430 then it is not a 250 watt amp. it is a 430 watt amp, no matter what wattage they stamp on the box. My statement about a watt being a watt said nothing about THD. THD is what makes one 250 watt amp better than another 250 watt amp. Power = Volts (E) x Amperes (I). If your talking about power (wattage) than 1 watt equal 1 watt. PERIOD! :D