Phoenix gold amp vs Alpine
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
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Phoenix gold amp vs Alpine
Hi, I'm debating between getting Phoenix gold 5 channel and Alpine F450. PG is about $40 more expensive and other than that, there isnt much i can tell you because i dont know much... please advise. thx. Also, what SQ sub would you recommand for the amp of your choice?
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 62
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From: Houston TX
I'm relatively new to the Vette scene, but I've been into car audio for a number of years.
I've had both PG and Alpine amps over the years. Both are quality products. I think anyone would be hard pressed to tell you that brand X will sound better than brand Y. I think one of the biggest parts of the overall SQ of the system depends on the install. Several years ago there was an article in Car Audio and Electronics about a guy built a system with only Optimus components (the Radio Shack brand) and competed to prove this point. He wasn't the best, but he beat out a lot of other guys with better quality stuff.
Which ever amp has the looks and features that you like, go with that one. A small difference in power output won't be very noticable either. I don't think you can go wrong here.
Good Luck
P.S. If your looking for a good website to learn more about car audio check out http://www.bcae1.com/
I've had both PG and Alpine amps over the years. Both are quality products. I think anyone would be hard pressed to tell you that brand X will sound better than brand Y. I think one of the biggest parts of the overall SQ of the system depends on the install. Several years ago there was an article in Car Audio and Electronics about a guy built a system with only Optimus components (the Radio Shack brand) and competed to prove this point. He wasn't the best, but he beat out a lot of other guys with better quality stuff.
Which ever amp has the looks and features that you like, go with that one. A small difference in power output won't be very noticable either. I don't think you can go wrong here.
Good Luck
P.S. If your looking for a good website to learn more about car audio check out http://www.bcae1.com/
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,020
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From: Chatsworth CA
I just installed the Alpine amp and I am satisifed. Its pushing a JL 10". More than enough bass, power and the clarity is excellent to this novice. I am partial to JL subs, as thats all I have ever used and I agree with the other statement when you get into a certain price range for equipment, I don't think the average person or even audio techies will be able to tell any difference between the equipment. There may be testing equipment that can tell the difference, but not the human ear.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
I find it really ironic that someone will write something like this, yet in other threads the same person will highly recommend low cost amps from US Acoustics and JBL. Even more ironic is the fact that these people report the low cost amps have overheated and they have yet to try a V12 amp. The guy that started the thread already made his choice and he is happy, why is it necessary to continue to bash?
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
I find it really ironic that someone will write something like this, yet in other threads the same person will highly recommend low cost amps from US Acoustics and JBL. Even more ironic is the fact that these people report the low cost amps have overheated and they have yet to try a V12 amp. The guy that started the thread already made his choice and he is happy, why is it necessary to continue to bash? I never tried a PG Tantrum but their spec and power per dollar ratio is certainly not blowing me away.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by rbartick
I find it really ironic that someone will write something like this, yet in other threads the same person will highly recommend low cost amps from US Acoustics and JBL. Even more ironic is the fact that these people report the low cost amps have overheated and they have yet to try a V12 amp. The guy that started the thread already made his choice and he is happy, why is it necessary to continue to bash? I never tried a PG Tantrum but their spec and power per dollar ratio is certainly not blowing me away.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
I installed a V12 in my car once... it sounded ok, but lacked headroom, or acousitcal spaciousness.
However, that is my ear saying that.
I have not heard a PG amp installed in a Vette, but I have heard them in other cars, they have a certian amount of extra something that makes them sound a bit more alive.
Car audio is much more subjective that cars themselves. Sure, the numbers can be great, but it's not the entire story.
I am not bashing Alpine amps, just sharing my experiences with them... and the fact I have been doing car audio for 20+ years. I have seen lotsa companies come, go, and come back. I have also seen companies come and stay... and companies lead, then become junk dealers.
One thing I have learned, there is no one company that does everything excellently. Alpine and Eclipse do great signal sourcing, AudioControl, great EQs, ARC, JL Audio, PG, Precision Power, Xtant, Butler, and a few others, great amps, Boston, Focal, Rainbow, CTD, Canton, and a few others, great speakers, IDQ, Boston, JL Audio, and a few others, great subs. See what I mean?
BTW, I prefer JL Audio amps... and Butler... mmmm... tubes are cool...
Last edited by bogus; Oct 8, 2004 at 02:06 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,712
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From: Manitoba
Originally Posted by bogus
BTW, I prefer JL Audio amps... and Butler... mmmm... tubes are cool...
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
I had a Butler Tube Driver 1500 in my old car. This is when I lived in Delaware, and yes, it worked just fine. Now, mind you, it didn't get to -30C, but it got down to 0F more than once.
www.butleraudio.com
The amps use the tubes for output filtering, not power generation. So if it takes a while for them to warm, who cares. You can actually hear the sound improve as they warm up on a colllldddd day!!!
They are mounted using a military style system. Makes them very durable. They even come with a 5 year warrantee.
My amp is still in use in a friends car. He flat out loves it!
www.butleraudio.com
The amps use the tubes for output filtering, not power generation. So if it takes a while for them to warm, who cares. You can actually hear the sound improve as they warm up on a colllldddd day!!!
They are mounted using a military style system. Makes them very durable. They even come with a 5 year warrantee.
My amp is still in use in a friends car. He flat out loves it!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
I have also been doing this for over 20 years and Alpine has been mainstream since the late 70s. The V12s came out in the 90s (I think) and they have always been very competitive amps. Nobody can argue that this company is not going away. I do not know what happened with your one particular setup and you certainly cannot compare amp "A" installed in car "A" with amp "P" installed in car "P". Even the best equipment in the world will sound bad if something is not configured correctly.
It is hard to argue about sound quality because as you said that is very subjective and a good amp should not color the sound in any way. The sound should be faithfully reproduced. You could try to compare power/dollar spent and to do that you need to rely on specs, an industry wide standard (like CEA-2006 or IASCA standards), and your install. As far as features go take a look at the x-over setup on the V12s. You have independently adjustable low pass, high pass, bandpass, and the frequency range on the x-overs is wider than the competition.
The regulated JLs are very nice but they are certainly at a different price point.
It is hard to argue about sound quality because as you said that is very subjective and a good amp should not color the sound in any way. The sound should be faithfully reproduced. You could try to compare power/dollar spent and to do that you need to rely on specs, an industry wide standard (like CEA-2006 or IASCA standards), and your install. As far as features go take a look at the x-over setup on the V12s. You have independently adjustable low pass, high pass, bandpass, and the frequency range on the x-overs is wider than the competition.
The regulated JLs are very nice but they are certainly at a different price point.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,712
Likes: 0
From: Manitoba
Originally Posted by bogus
I had a Butler Tube Driver 1500 in my old car. This is when I lived in Delaware, and yes, it worked just fine. Now, mind you, it didn't get to -30C, but it got down to 0F more than once.
www.butleraudio.com
The amps use the tubes for output filtering, not power generation. So if it takes a while for them to warm, who cares. You can actually hear the sound improve as they warm up on a colllldddd day!!!
They are mounted using a military style system. Makes them very durable. They even come with a 5 year warrantee.
My amp is still in use in a friends car. He flat out loves it!
www.butleraudio.com
The amps use the tubes for output filtering, not power generation. So if it takes a while for them to warm, who cares. You can actually hear the sound improve as they warm up on a colllldddd day!!!
They are mounted using a military style system. Makes them very durable. They even come with a 5 year warrantee.
My amp is still in use in a friends car. He flat out loves it!
You learn something new every day 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,682
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta GA
Originally Posted by rbartick
I find it really ironic that someone will write something like this, yet in other threads the same person will highly recommend low cost amps from US Acoustics and JBL. Even more ironic is the fact that these people report the low cost amps have overheated and they have yet to try a V12 amp. The guy that started the thread already made his choice and he is happy, why is it necessary to continue to bash? I never tried a PG Tantrum but their spec and power per dollar ratio is certainly not blowing me away.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
It kind of reminds me of the people on the Vette forum who bash the Viper and the people on the Mustang forums that bash the Vette.
...uh, nevermind...