hey guys. i am eventually planning on installing 8" subwoofers in place of my rear speakers on my 96 coupe. my question is this. Why doesnt anyone make SQUARE 8" subwoofers? i like the idea of square 10" subwoofers cause they puch a lot more air than regular 10s and should in return sound like a bigger sub. i guess i should just stick with 8"s? i know some of you guys have done this. what is ur take on this? also. where did u mont ur amp?

 

Square subs were originally designed for spl vechicles. Using a square driver it is possible to physically fit more drivers in the same area than ou could with round drivers. I thought Kicker makes a 8L5 but could be wrong. Personally I prefer the sound of a round woofer but I have heard and installed some square woofers that sound pretty good.

 

The solo baric L5 made by Kicker can be had in the 8" size. By looking at the pictures in this thread:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=884184

that shows the 8" sub install, it does appear that 8" square subs would fit. I would not reccomend the solo barics though, they simply aren't that great. I have a friend that had a 10" L5 for a long time, and yeah it pounded, but then he put in a 12" Alpine type R and it was much clearer, and alpine doesn't make the best sub out there. If you want alot of noise and boom...well you aren't really going to get it from 8" woofers, but two square 8" subs will be a bit boomier than two round 8" woofers. If you want clearer sound I think you'd be happier with something like 2 JL 8W3s

 

well i had a 91 S10 reglar cab that came with a box in it that had two 8s and two tweeters in one box. (it wasnt set up very well at all and looked like it was prebought really cheap. they were in there when i got it and i put in my cheap head unit (the one that came with it was busted) and it sounded halfway decent but when i bought a 300W amp and wired it to the box it sounded great! as far as volume. these speakers had to be damn near 10 years old an cracked at high volume but the point is they put out almost all the base i wanted. and i DO listen to some heavy rap sometimes and it was just about enough for me. i know speaker and sub technology has come a long way in the past 5-10 years and i think if i got top of the line 8s and a decent power source they will do more than what i want. granted i am not used to carrying two 12s in my truck or anything so i doubt i will be dissappointed

 

ok, we're gonna get into some over what you said. The 8" kicker square L7 are rather large than a normal 8 in both cone area, as well as driver structure. I promise you that you will not be able to get a 8" square sub in there very well without fiberglass with MDF work. The sub comes in with an outer diamater of 8 13/16ths - pretty big.


I am in the unique position of both owning a pair of Kicker L7 10's as well as Alpine R subs. Putting an L7 or an L5 up to a Alpine R really isnt fiar for both of them. Both have thier strong points - and it has nothing to do with 'being boomier' ... What is "boomier" This is a teerm that is thrown around as if everyone has the same definition of the word. Do you mean lower extention of sound without having a upward SPL spike around 70-80 hz? "Clearer sound?" isnt that as subjective as well? Surface area that a square subwoofer has as an advantage, doesnt imply a 'boomier' response at all. Perhaps your friend had his L5 in a poorly designed or incorrectly tuned (if vented) enclosure.

In a generic agreed reference to boomier i'll agree with, is when a subwoofer is put into an enclosure larger than recommended, with an incorrect tuning of the box's vent to the speaker's specific requirements. A 'punchy' or 'flat' sounding speaker could be in reference to a subwoofer placed into a sealed enclosure with the incorrect amount of airspace. This is all of course assuming the input signal to the subwoofer is properly low passed crossed over.

So, maybe with what ive suggested, you can see that you could put a L7 in a correct enclosure, and make it just as 'boomy' as you want it to be, varying the enclosure size and port. I just dont get where you say "two sqaure 8" subs would be boomier" .....in what kind of enclosure? in size of enclosure? SEALED? Ported? Isovent, Isobaric, Bandpass, dual coupled isovent? There are about 15 different types of enclosures to put a subwoofer in. All of them yeild different results for the same speaker.

As far as manufactuers go of 8" square subs, there are a few out there.

Kicker L7S8


Kicker L5S8


Hifonics, Pyle, Phoenix Digital, Hart, Cadence, Pymarid, and a few other rebadge companies sell sqaure subs. Some even have the same cone and structure as the 02-03 L7's and L7's.

snoopdan

 

when I said they appear as though they would fit I was only looking at the top of the factory baffle - as in it looks like there is enough room for an 8" square hole; I'm not sure what the volume is behind there, but I wouldn't be suprised if there is not enough room to run an L5/7 effectively

as far as the type r/solo baric thing, I was just stating my opinion, which happens to be that the type r sounds better.

the type of enclosure is irrelevant to the arguement; when comparing two different products (in this case, 2 round vs. 2 square subs), all else must be assumed to be equal. Put 2 square subs in any box vs 2 round subs of the same size in the same type of box, and the 2 square subs are going to move more air

All this too say that those little details don't matter - what does is the recommendation that he should probably go with 2 8" round subs - they fit, they sound good, there's enough room, it will look stock...etc etc. Either agree with the recommendation or disagree and give a better alternative

 

i think you are right i am going to have enough things to worry about and fitment and space behind a square 8 are not what i want to worry about. i am positive i can get incredible sound out of two round 8s. what kind of power can current 8s take? how many watts can i have going to each of them?

 

the jl 8w3s take 125w rms

so i would recommend at least a 500w amp to power the both of them

 

Are you looking for a stock look or semi-stock slightly modified? Ive been toying around with the idea of a W7 8" sub in a tube enclosure, similar to a bazooka. That could be strapped down with custom metal straps (similar to the straps that hold on nitrous bottles) or perhaps with velcro strips. I have my bazooka mounted in my coupe's hatchback like that sometimes, with velcro straps - when I put my targa top in the back. Now the Bazooka 8" driver is sort of anemic, but the enclosure is well made and very rigid, and could hold a much more robust driver in it. Of course, there companys that specifially make tube enclosures for whatever driver you want, which may be an option for you, if you dont want a permanently mounted enclosure. You could fire the sub at the rear corner of the hatch and make good use of the interiors natural DB boost. Just a suggestion.

But as manufcatures of 8's go...I probably cant think of a more robust 8" driver than JL W7. Even if I really dont like JL all that much.

I do admit, a couple of 8ws3's wouldnt be to shabby back there in the 6x9 locations. Its too bad many manufactuers dont make 6x9 subwoofers. I can only think of two, Visonik and Tang Band. Ive never heard of anyone using either. Id kill to have some old Alpine 6x9's subwoofers. I had a pair of them like 100 years ago.


And if it matters to anyone, I like my Alpine R.


snoopdan

 

isnt 125W max power? so that would be 250w for both subs. i am not sure why i would need a 500w to push both of them. what am i missing?

 

if you get a 500w amp, you can turn down the gain and basically you'll only use 250w of 500 possible watts, so the amp is only working at 50%; if you use a 250w amp, it has to be working at 100% all the time. In other words, the 500w has to work alot less to power the subs than the 250w amp...just better for all the components of the system when they aren't being pushed to their max all the time. Does that make sense? sometimes I'm not great at explaining things all that well...

 

you can not physically fit more subs if they are square versus round in the same area....if you have a 2'x2' area to work with, you can fit 4 12" round as well as 4 12" square woofers...the major difference between square vs round is that the square will have more cone area, which means it will more more air....box design plays the most important role in how it will all sound...most people put L7s or L5s in big ported boxes or small sealed which are not good for SQ...they will need a fairly large sealed box to sound somewhat decent and not boomy...

 

Ah, and let us not forget those amplifier manufacturers that 'FIB' a bit on their wattage output and THD percentage. A 2500 watt labeled pymarid amplifier in JC Whitney that is 5"x5" with 18 gauge power wires isnt going to do the trick.


snoopdan

 

you need to remember that the bigger amp is not going to defy the laws of physics and make it easier to produce 250 watts than one rated at 250 watts...most class a/b amps of the same manufacturers have similar efficiencies...it is going to take around the same input power to make the same output power no matter if you are using the amp at its full potential versus one that is being restricted...we can get into the size of power supplys and other internal components but it boils down to if the amp is a quality amp and is designed to produce the power, if you are running it hard or in a way it is not really designed to that is a different story...now as far as heat goes, with both being similar in efficiency both will produce the same amount of heat with the bigger amp probably running cooler if it has a larger heatsink to absorb the heat...now if we are talking about decent amps that are not designed to run hot under normal conditions, heat would not be an issue...an advantage of running a more powerful amp is that it gives you room to upgrade your subs in the future, but it also gives you the ability to overpower the sub causing thermal damage to it, if the gain is not set correctly and you dont get carried away with the volume....if you plan on keeping everything for a while get an amp that does its rated power for you subs, if the subs are temp and you want to upgrade in the future get a bigger amp and make sure you do not overpower the subs, but dont pick an amp because a bigger amp will have an easier time making the same power as a smaller amp

 

Isn't there a structural rigidity problem wiht 6x9 woofers? since they are uniform they have weak spots and probably couldn't push them as hard as a round sub. I would assume this is why you dont see many of them around. I wonder; even though they are more symmetrical, if the square subs encounter similar problems.

 

Totally good question. Im no expert by any means, I just try look at the materials that a driver is made with, and the inherit structural strengths and weakness. The material strength isnt as much as a problem as older drivers were, so I dont think thats an issue as much. I had a pair of 6x9 Alpine Subwoofers, that were absolutely spectacular in sound. I got them second hand circa 1991-92 and have no idea what they cost, but they were definately worth the price someone paid. Anyway, you must condsider how many 6x9's have been produced over the years, as a tried and true design, alltough mainly in full range applications. But they do have around the same surface area as an 8" subwoofer, so really, the physics are there as long as a good motor structure and voice coil is designed and implemented. Ok, way over complicating things again. My bad. The engineering is there, its just that 6x9's arent being marketed anymore. The audio companies want to sell subs and componants. Which makes sense for them. No 16 year old kid is looking to buy some $300 chrome plated 6x9's...sounds kinda funny, doesnt it? So I guess I understand why they're not made much anymore. Actually, id like to buy a pair of Visonik 6x9's ...the look much better than the Tang Band's....and maybe its just me, but I cant own up to saying I own a pair of TANG BAND speakers


You also asked about the square subwoofers and their design flaws. I talked to a couple of Kicker distrubuters and apparently their #2 reason that they get returns on square subwoofers is the surround cracking. I guess I can believe that, those square subwoofers have a pretty rigid surround on them. And to see the sub go to maximum excursion and the surround acts the way it does, looks a bit un-natural. Take a look at what I mean, there are some videos of L5, L7, and SoloX subs on www.realmofexcursion.com that are going to maximum excursion. They have at least one video on there of some crazy bastard with a wall of 6x9's that he his over 150 db with, then subsuquently catches on fire.

snoopdan

 

jeez...i realize i should reread my posts BEFORE i hit the 'submit reply' button. you can tell how busy/stressed i am at work by how much sense my posts make

I meant 'since they are NOT uniform' i think you got the jist of it though, but i wasn't talking as much about the driver/motors or basket but more along the lines of the cone itself.

anywhoo... it's 8...only 2 more hours of work!!!

 

Its understandable. I totally know how you feel.


If anyone sees a pair of those Alpine 6x9 subwoofers for sale, contact me! Of course, I'll prolly never find another pair unless someone finds them in a closet that hasnt been cleaned out in years.

snoopdan

 

so it wouldnt be possible to mount SQUARE 8s in the back speaker enclosures? only round 8s?