Alignment question
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 572
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From: plainview ny
Alignment question
I know this has been discussed in the past but the search function has failed to turn up anything usefull.
I drive an 04 Z06. On track, the car is not handling right and I think that my alignment is off. This could have been caused by bouncing off curbing at limerock (the curbing feels much larger than it looks). Anyway it is time for an allignment.
What settings would produce the best cornering. I know there are tradeoffs to be made with braking and acceleration.
I am not really concerned with steet tire wear. The sooner I wear out my F1 supercars the sooner I get some Nitto RIIs or Toyo RA-1s to use as a second set of dual purpose tires. As the car is not really driven much on the street I am not too concerned with on road manners.
Thanks in advance!!
I drive an 04 Z06. On track, the car is not handling right and I think that my alignment is off. This could have been caused by bouncing off curbing at limerock (the curbing feels much larger than it looks). Anyway it is time for an allignment.
What settings would produce the best cornering. I know there are tradeoffs to be made with braking and acceleration.
I am not really concerned with steet tire wear. The sooner I wear out my F1 supercars the sooner I get some Nitto RIIs or Toyo RA-1s to use as a second set of dual purpose tires. As the car is not really driven much on the street I am not too concerned with on road manners.
Thanks in advance!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
I drive a coupe, but have Z06 springs/bars and Bilsteins.
I have come to REALLY like
Front: -1.5* camber, 1/16 toe out, max caster (they can get >8*)
Rear: -1.0* camber, 1/16 toe in.
This is on Kumhos, car handles like a dream. Hope this helps.
I have come to REALLY like
Front: -1.5* camber, 1/16 toe out, max caster (they can get >8*)
Rear: -1.0* camber, 1/16 toe in.
This is on Kumhos, car handles like a dream. Hope this helps.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 118
From: N. Babylon NY
Hi Brian,
On my C4 I don't have a very aggressive set-up-but as you seen my car at LimeRock it works okay.
Front: .75 negative camber, toe in 1/8" and as much caster as I was able to get (I don't remember the #).
Rear is .50 negative camber, toe in 1/8" to 3/16"
This set up is not darty on the street and turns and stops at the track decent. Tire wear is also good.
Being as I do my own alignments I may try a little more negative camber in the for the next event.
Steven
On my C4 I don't have a very aggressive set-up-but as you seen my car at LimeRock it works okay.
Front: .75 negative camber, toe in 1/8" and as much caster as I was able to get (I don't remember the #).
Rear is .50 negative camber, toe in 1/8" to 3/16"
This set up is not darty on the street and turns and stops at the track decent. Tire wear is also good.
Being as I do my own alignments I may try a little more negative camber in the for the next event.
Steven
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,438
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From: CONCORD NC
The curbs at Lime Rock should NOT hurt your alignment, however, the stock Alignment is not very aggressive. The suggestions above would help, but if you're really serious, I would max out all 4 corners for camber.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 572
Likes: 1
From: plainview ny
Originally Posted by davidfarmer
The curbs at Lime Rock should NOT hurt your alignment, however, the stock Alignment is not very aggressive. The suggestions above would help, but if you're really serious, I would max out all 4 corners for camber.
When maxing out 4 corners a I would imagine there may be a difference right to left? Will this upset the handling? Also what about the difference front to rear? I know you can get more camber out of the front.
Also, anyone know how much camber you can get out of the stock adjustments on a Z06? If I remember correctly Yellows setup is about the max for a C4.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 572
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From: plainview ny
Originally Posted by STEVEN13
Hi Brian,
On my C4 I don't have a very aggressive set-up-but as you seen my car at LimeRock it works okay.
Front: .75 negative camber, toe in 1/8" and as much caster as I was able to get (I don't remember the #).
Rear is .50 negative camber, toe in 1/8" to 3/16"
This set up is not darty on the street and turns and stops at the track decent. Tire wear is also good.
Being as I do my own alignments I may try a little more negative camber in the for the next event.
Steven
On my C4 I don't have a very aggressive set-up-but as you seen my car at LimeRock it works okay.
Front: .75 negative camber, toe in 1/8" and as much caster as I was able to get (I don't remember the #).
Rear is .50 negative camber, toe in 1/8" to 3/16"
This set up is not darty on the street and turns and stops at the track decent. Tire wear is also good.
Being as I do my own alignments I may try a little more negative camber in the for the next event.
Steven
Yes your car handles great and your setup is a nice compromise for street and track. I am however looking for something a bit more agressive. BTW how where your times on the north course? You go home with another plack?
_Brian
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 118
From: N. Babylon NY
[
Brian,
I never made it to Pocono on 6/30. When going thru the front end I noticed that the lower ball joints were questionable.
Last time at the North Course my times were in the Low 1:04s. I think I can get into the 1:03s next time as I now have larger swaybars, different alignment, and Nitto tires.
Maybe we can hook up for 1 event this year!
Steven
QUOTE=BrianS]Hi Steven,
Yes your car handles great and your setup is a nice compromise for street and track. I am however looking for something a bit more agressive. BTW how where your times on the north course? You go home with another plack?
_Brian
Yes your car handles great and your setup is a nice compromise for street and track. I am however looking for something a bit more agressive. BTW how where your times on the north course? You go home with another plack?
_Brian
I never made it to Pocono on 6/30. When going thru the front end I noticed that the lower ball joints were questionable.
Last time at the North Course my times were in the Low 1:04s. I think I can get into the 1:03s next time as I now have larger swaybars, different alignment, and Nitto tires.
Maybe we can hook up for 1 event this year!
Steven
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 118
From: N. Babylon NY
[
Hi,
On a C4 (on the lower ball joint) all you do is check the zerk fitting to make sure it did not pull in. The whole zerk fitting and base should be exposed. When checking this, the lower control arm should be supported so all weight is on it.
Also when holding the tire at 12:00 and 6:00 you maybe able to see if there is any play.
I am sure some others will also chime in.
Steven
QUOTE=the blur]how exactly did you check out your lower ball joints ??
I try putting a big pry bar under my tires, but I couldn't really get good leverage.....
I try putting a big pry bar under my tires, but I couldn't really get good leverage.....
On a C4 (on the lower ball joint) all you do is check the zerk fitting to make sure it did not pull in. The whole zerk fitting and base should be exposed. When checking this, the lower control arm should be supported so all weight is on it.
Also when holding the tire at 12:00 and 6:00 you maybe able to see if there is any play.
I am sure some others will also chime in.
Steven
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 1
From: Springfield VA
Originally Posted by BrianS
When maxing out 4 corners a I would imagine there may be a difference right to left? Will this upset the handling? Also what about the difference front to rear? I know you can get more camber out of the front.
It may be just a personal preference but I like to keep at least .5 degree less negative camber on the rears then the front also. A little rake from front to rear and a little less negative camber makes my C4 more stable above 140-150mph.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 860
Likes: 1
From: Birmingham AL
Originally Posted by yellow01
I drive a coupe, but have Z06 springs/bars and Bilsteins.
I have come to REALLY like
Front: -1.5* camber, 1/16 toe out, max caster (they can get >8*)
Rear: -1.0* camber, 1/16 toe in.
I have come to REALLY like
Front: -1.5* camber, 1/16 toe out, max caster (they can get >8*)
Rear: -1.0* camber, 1/16 toe in.
Also, I can't remember if you said in my "To lower or not to lower" thread-- is your car lowered? Seems like you might have said just a slight amount of lowering... Anyway, I'm mainly interested here in hearing if these settings are too aggressive to use on the street as well.
Thanks,
Fred
Pro
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
From: Alamo CA
I'm running a little more front camber (-2.0), no front toe out, the same rear camber, a little more rear toe in (1/4") and don't have any real wear issues...well, the front insides do wear a little quicker, but I just flip the fronts on the rim.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 860
Likes: 1
From: Birmingham AL
Originally Posted by tigerdrvr
I'm running a little more front camber (-2.0), no front toe out, the same rear camber, a little more rear toe in (1/4") and don't have any real wear issues...well, the front insides do wear a little quicker, but I just flip the fronts on the rim.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 871
Likes: 1
From: Union KY
Brian:
While you might already plan to do so, I'd strongly suggest that you have the car corner balanced and aligned. Simply aligning (caster/camber and toe) is good, but if the car is 75 pounds off in diagional corner weight, it's sort of for naught. A serious performance alignment shop will be able to do it. It'll cost $200-$300, but you'll be glad you did it.
Cire
P.S. If you go this route, be sure they put either you, or the equivelent weight of you in the seat during the entire procress.
While you might already plan to do so, I'd strongly suggest that you have the car corner balanced and aligned. Simply aligning (caster/camber and toe) is good, but if the car is 75 pounds off in diagional corner weight, it's sort of for naught. A serious performance alignment shop will be able to do it. It'll cost $200-$300, but you'll be glad you did it.
Cire
P.S. If you go this route, be sure they put either you, or the equivelent weight of you in the seat during the entire procress.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
Originally Posted by fhturner
Anyone? Bueller? Might be heading to the alignment shop today if I can get my settings figured out... Thanks!
You can go pretty high on the camber without too much wear concern, but keep the toe to a minimum. That's what really kills tires.
But, if you go -1.5 or something, you may wish to flip tires 1/2 way through their life, because inevitably you will get more inside wear.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 860
Likes: 1
From: Birmingham AL
Okay, got the alignment done yesterday. I told them to do -1.5° front camber, max front caster, zero front toe; -1.0° rear camber, 1/16" toe-in. Here are the results:
Before, Front
LF/RF Camber: -0.7° / -0.5°
LF/RF Caster: 7.0° / 6.9°
LF/RF Toe: 0.12" / 0.10"
Cross Camber: -0.2°
Cross Caster: 0.1°
Total Toe: 0.22"
After, Front
LF/RF Camber: -1.4° / -1.4°
LF/RF Caster: 5.5° / 5.9°
LF/RF Toe: -0.03" / -0.03"
Cross Camber: 0.0°
Cross Caster: -0.5°
Total Toe: -0.06"
Before, Rear
LR/RR Camber: -0.7° / -0.3°
LR/RR Toe: 0.00" / 0.04"
Total Toe: 0.04"
Thrust Angle: -0.04°
After, Rear
LR/RR Camber: -0.9° / -1.0°
LR/RR Toe: 0.04" / 0.03"
Total Toe: 0.07"
Thrust Angle: 0.00°
Some of these #s are a little off from what I thought they'd be, but I don't know how hard it is to zero in on these settings. Some questions I have:
1. Is that all the caster I can expect? yellow01 says earlier in this thread that with the same camber settings, they were able to get 8° of caster.
2. Do I want a 1/2° of cross caster for track events? I know it will supposedly help with crowned roads, but will it hinder me in any way on the track?
3. Is the total front toe too high if I requested zero toe? Are the tolerances just not that tight?
4. Does this look like a decent improvement (before vs. after) for the track?
Thanks!
Fred
Before, Front
LF/RF Camber: -0.7° / -0.5°
LF/RF Caster: 7.0° / 6.9°
LF/RF Toe: 0.12" / 0.10"
Cross Camber: -0.2°
Cross Caster: 0.1°
Total Toe: 0.22"
After, Front
LF/RF Camber: -1.4° / -1.4°
LF/RF Caster: 5.5° / 5.9°
LF/RF Toe: -0.03" / -0.03"
Cross Camber: 0.0°
Cross Caster: -0.5°
Total Toe: -0.06"
Before, Rear
LR/RR Camber: -0.7° / -0.3°
LR/RR Toe: 0.00" / 0.04"
Total Toe: 0.04"
Thrust Angle: -0.04°
After, Rear
LR/RR Camber: -0.9° / -1.0°
LR/RR Toe: 0.04" / 0.03"
Total Toe: 0.07"
Thrust Angle: 0.00°
Some of these #s are a little off from what I thought they'd be, but I don't know how hard it is to zero in on these settings. Some questions I have:
1. Is that all the caster I can expect? yellow01 says earlier in this thread that with the same camber settings, they were able to get 8° of caster.
2. Do I want a 1/2° of cross caster for track events? I know it will supposedly help with crowned roads, but will it hinder me in any way on the track?
3. Is the total front toe too high if I requested zero toe? Are the tolerances just not that tight?
4. Does this look like a decent improvement (before vs. after) for the track?
Thanks!
Fred
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 572
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From: plainview ny
Originally Posted by cire96
Brian:
While you might already plan to do so, I'd strongly suggest that you have the car corner balanced and aligned. Simply aligning (caster/camber and toe) is good, but if the car is 75 pounds off in diagional corner weight, it's sort of for naught. A serious performance alignment shop will be able to do it. It'll cost $200-$300, but you'll be glad you did it.
Cire
P.S. If you go this route, be sure they put either you, or the equivelent weight of you in the seat during the entire procress.
While you might already plan to do so, I'd strongly suggest that you have the car corner balanced and aligned. Simply aligning (caster/camber and toe) is good, but if the car is 75 pounds off in diagional corner weight, it's sort of for naught. A serious performance alignment shop will be able to do it. It'll cost $200-$300, but you'll be glad you did it.
Cire
P.S. If you go this route, be sure they put either you, or the equivelent weight of you in the seat during the entire procress.
I would love to have the care corner balanced during the process of alignment. Unfortionately at the present driving over three hours to phoenix is not really an option. I just wish there was someone who could handle this locally.