When speed and wealth collide!
05-16-2006, 02:41 PM
#21
Racer
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that's just stupid for saying the auto manufacturer has any liability for the purchase and driving habits of idiots!!! I can't stand people that are just angry and "victims." It was the guys choice to do what he did.
Who are you going to go after next, the aftermarket crowd? The guys that build fast cars out of regular cars? The parts guys? Sheesh! If you kill yourself...sorry. Your fault. If you kill the guy in the seat next to you, bad judgement on his part for getting into the car. I teach my son every day to TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR HIS OWN DECISIONS!
Suing Porsche isn't going to do anything but waste time and money and, frankly, if I was unable to make the decision to buy the car with or without the driver's ed package, I'd be pissed!
STOP TRYING TO SAVE ME, ALREADY!!!!!
Who are you going to go after next, the aftermarket crowd? The guys that build fast cars out of regular cars? The parts guys? Sheesh! If you kill yourself...sorry. Your fault. If you kill the guy in the seat next to you, bad judgement on his part for getting into the car. I teach my son every day to TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR HIS OWN DECISIONS!
Suing Porsche isn't going to do anything but waste time and money and, frankly, if I was unable to make the decision to buy the car with or without the driver's ed package, I'd be pissed!
STOP TRYING TO SAVE ME, ALREADY!!!!!
05-16-2006, 05:05 PM
#23
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 95jersey
If she has the money to pursue them (sounds like she does), then the manufacturers will have to defend themselves and that costs lots of money. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered an out of court settlement, even for something so ridiculous. If there are enough of these, the business folks will start taking notice.
My race boat partner took out a guy he sold a race boat to which was a 24' Skater. I took out the guys race partner the day before to show him how to run it. They flip it over and it kills the guy.
No racing vest on either of them. When I took the guys Friend out the day before we had them on. Boat goes over and point comes down into the Russel's chest. Died from chest injuries right after that. Friend who sold the boat and was in the boat policy pays 1,000,000.00. Skater whom built the boat pays more money, Mercury Marine who made the two outboards pays more money. The real kick in the A$$ is the boat trailer manufacturer kicks in 100.000.00 to settle. What did the trailer have to do with anything? I am sure Porsche will cut her a check also.
05-16-2006, 06:26 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
this goes along with someone drinking too much and then blaming the bar for the accident or buying a gun, "accidentally" shooting a friend and blaming the gun industry for not providing training.
So does the auto industry have to provide a rode test to each buyer before the buyer can drive off with the car? what happens when the buyer buys a used car - am I responsible now for the safety of that person because he/she can't drive.
Its almost like buying a gun, loading it, sticking it in your mouth and pulling the trigger! Gee, lets blame that one on someone else!
It's also begining to make me wonder about HPDE's also, I'm my own sponsor and don't have deep pockets.
05-16-2006, 06:31 PM
#25
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bad Machine
Its almost like buying a gun, loading it, sticking it in your mouth and pulling the trigger! Gee, lets blame that one on someone else!
It's also begining to make me wonder about HPDE's also, I'm my own sponsor and don't have deep pockets.
Bob are you and Chris coming out to play soon
05-16-2006, 06:35 PM
#26
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Originally Posted by John Shiels
Bob are you and Chris coming out to play soon
Chris is grounded - Bob well time will tell.
I tried to get them at WGI and now to Pocono
We do have Doug@ECS coming though Memorial day
05-16-2006, 08:11 PM
#27
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
Chris is grounded - Bob well time will tell.
I tried to get them at WGI and now to Pocono
We do have Doug@ECS coming though Memorial day
I tried to get them at WGI and now to Pocono
We do have Doug@ECS coming though Memorial day
grounded?
05-16-2006, 08:47 PM
#28
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
- No mention of the car that entered the track as the Carrera was
approaching or the alleged circumstances under how the car proceeded. - No mention that the driver had previously owned other very capable
cars
How is it relevent that he owned "capable" cars?
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
Watch out for the media. There was this similar sort of innuendo broadcast
following the death of Paul Dana at Homestead.
following the death of Paul Dana at Homestead.
05-16-2006, 08:50 PM
#29
Safety Car
Originally Posted by John Shiels
My race boat partner took out a guy he sold a race boat to which was a 24' Skater. I took out the guys race partner the day before to show him how to run it. They flip it over and it kills the guy. No racing vest on either of them. When I took the guys Friend out the day before we had them on. Boat goes over and point comes down into the Russel's chest. Died from chest injuries right after that. Friend who sold the boat and was in the boat policy pays 1,000,000.00. Skater whom built the boat pays more money, Mercury Marine who made the two outboards pays more money. The real kick in the A$$ is the boat trailer manufacturer kicks in 100.000.00 to settle. What did the trailer have to do with anything? I am sure Porsche will cut her a check also.
No racing vest on either of them. When I took the guys Friend out the day before we had them on. Boat goes over and point comes down into the Russel's chest. Died from chest injuries right after that. Friend who sold the boat and was in the boat policy pays 1,000,000.00. Skater whom built the boat pays more money, Mercury Marine who made the two outboards pays more money. The real kick in the A$$ is the boat trailer manufacturer kicks in 100.000.00 to settle. What did the trailer have to do with anything? I am sure Porsche will cut her a check also.
05-16-2006, 10:00 PM
#30
Race Director
Here is another case of TOO MUCH MONEY AND NOT ENOUGH TALENT!! This is what happens when one guy can`t wait for a start and tries to go up the middle, a race official decides he wants a 50 mph start and ONLY tells the front row, and a starter who wants a sloooow start OR ELSE!! You have the biggest crash in the history of vintage racing, 18 cars, just lucky no one got seriously hurt. And believe it or not the offender is entered once again this week end at Road America without much more than a slap on the wrist. And YES one of the competitors (who just so happens to be a multi millionaire and have an attorney for a wife was talking class action law suit).
http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/bric2005
...redvetracr
PS: If these pics turn your stomach you should see the "in car" videos!!
http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/bric2005
...redvetracr
PS: If these pics turn your stomach you should see the "in car" videos!!
and 071
05-16-2006, 11:41 PM
#33
Team Owner
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Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06
Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
can't go out until done painting the house. 
05-16-2006, 11:49 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: Up in front.... At the finish line.....
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Originally Posted by davidfarmer
One weekend at a PCA race (not DE) and you'll see exactly how much talent money can buy. I raced a friends car last year, and we had our first THREE sessions black/red flagged due to wrecks within the first 2 laps. One session (practice 2) had 3 separate crashes (actually hit the wall, or slid beyond recovery) on the WARM UP LAPS!
Too bad current cars are so safe, or I would call it natural selection. Back in the good ol' days, you drove that poorly, you didn't live to lie about it!
Too bad current cars are so safe, or I would call it natural selection. Back in the good ol' days, you drove that poorly, you didn't live to lie about it!
Joe
05-17-2006, 03:02 AM
#35
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by John Shiels
Bob are you and Chris coming out to play soon
05-17-2006, 10:04 AM
#37
Melting Slicks
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If any auto manufacture did provide driver "training" then they would be more liable in my opinion. Because after there 2 or 3 day training course someone would think they would have the skills to drive one of these cars "better and or faster." If anything it would give these rich guys false confidence to drive beyond there abilities.
Although if they made it manditory for owners to take these courses if they buys a ultra exotic it would be funny seeing Michael Schumacher sitting next to you in classroom before you could drive your Enzo.
I've delt with LPE before and if they send you an engine quote they have a disclaimer that goes along with it, to prevent people from sueing for having too much horsepower.
Why can't people just accept responsibility for there actions, the finger pointing is just rediculous!
I do think that there should be some kind of training program for C6 Z06 buyers though. I thought that the C5 Z06 should have had classes avaiable through GM. Anything over 400 hp and you should have some kind of training avalible from the factory, just so you can see what happens when you push the car. I think that NASA would be a good tool for GM to use since they are nationwide, and fairly inexpensive compaired to some of the professional schools out there.
Although if they made it manditory for owners to take these courses if they buys a ultra exotic it would be funny seeing Michael Schumacher sitting next to you in classroom before you could drive your Enzo.
I've delt with LPE before and if they send you an engine quote they have a disclaimer that goes along with it, to prevent people from sueing for having too much horsepower.
Why can't people just accept responsibility for there actions, the finger pointing is just rediculous!
I do think that there should be some kind of training program for C6 Z06 buyers though. I thought that the C5 Z06 should have had classes avaiable through GM. Anything over 400 hp and you should have some kind of training avalible from the factory, just so you can see what happens when you push the car. I think that NASA would be a good tool for GM to use since they are nationwide, and fairly inexpensive compaired to some of the professional schools out there.
05-17-2006, 10:15 AM
#38
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by 96CollectorSport
Why can't people just accept responsibility for there actions, the finger pointing is just rediculous!
05-17-2006, 10:54 AM
#39
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Originally Posted by yellow01
because that rarely pays $$$.
I think most just want the money though......
05-17-2006, 11:52 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
this goes along with someone drinking too much and then blaming the bar for the accident or buying a gun, "accidentally" shooting a friend and blaming the gun industry for not providing training.
So does the auto industry have to provide a rode test to each buyer before the buyer can drive off with the car? what happens when the buyer buys a used car - am I responsible now for the safety of that person because he/she can't drive.
So does the auto industry have to provide a rode test to each buyer before the buyer can drive off with the car? what happens when the buyer buys a used car - am I responsible now for the safety of that person because he/she can't drive.
It's never the participating enthusiast (drinking, shooting, driving, etc.) that files the lawsuit, it's always the Attorney (a-hem) representing the interest of the Significant Other (SO, Parent, etc., and contingent fee). Having the enthusiast sign waivers and/or prove insurance only notifies the enthusiast of the requested limits of liability (for the organizer & track owner, and does little else).
Have you ever experienced a requirement for a SO to sign a waiver?
Looking deeper into the subsequent actions when litigation is filed, is the problem the SO (& SO Attorney) side of the litigation?
The demise of many enthusiast sports (and many business segments in general) has not been litigation and individual compensation awards; it has been the actions of underwriters and the subsequent costs passed through general liability insurance. The representing Attorney filing the case is looking for compensation for a loss (and a fee), the Attorney representing the other side receives a fee as well (due pay for services) but the costs end at the represented estate (and end at financial payment of the award). Without insurance, the individual whose estate must pay an award is a small voice of complaint and cannot pass on the loss to others. The demand for change and regulation in the enthusiast endeavor end at the individual estate ("pay up, shut up"). There is no industry to protect, no political lobby interest, and no deep pocket to challenge and chance a lottery windfall (just the assets of the individual estate are at risk). The estate pays up and the remaining people move on with life.
Contrast the limits of action when personal responsibility & liability end at the individual estate with the actions of the Insurance industry. Underwriting rates go up. Regulation is demanded: not by enthusiasts to protect the participants, but by the insurance industry to protect against any and all liability (or to spread the costs around to more than one pocket). The direction of rules and procedures change to protect the financial spectator (the insurance company) not the participant. Eventually the cost of liability, regulation, and spectator protection drive up the cost of insurance so it cannot be purchased for any amount (short of a full value bond posted by the participant).
When the individual participant is finally at the point of posting a full value bond to underwrite their own insurance (essentially a corporate separation of personal assets from enthusiast corporate assets) what does the sport gain from insurance (other than the layers of regulation directed to insurance industry protection ... and cost)?
Money buys more than fast cars it buys insurance, and insurance buys regulation to protect the insurance industry. Should we ban fast cars in HPDE and competition (because that will protect the insurance industry)?
Who is driving this debate (The enthusiast & participants or the insurance industry)? Who do you represent and what is your goal?
Food for thought?
