Quick Suspension Question
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 7
From: Sandy Ego Ca.
Quick Suspension Question
This weekend I lowered my ZO6 about 1in on the stock bolts....primarily for looks and a bit of a bump in handling
Now Ive noticed..and not unexpectedly, that Ive pick up a bit more body roll.
I suspect that by lowering the body Ive changed the relationship between the body and the swaybars.
And the endlinks on the OEM set up are non adjustable.....delima
To return the handling back to OEM'ish levels would you
1. Buy adjustable endlinks and
a. Make them longer
b. Make then shorter
2. Go to Poly bushings..just to firm things
3. Both...
Obviously going to a T1 set up while very attractive is another but I think that it would be overkill for a street car
Hotchicks might be a second "Over the top" solution
Now Ive noticed..and not unexpectedly, that Ive pick up a bit more body roll.
I suspect that by lowering the body Ive changed the relationship between the body and the swaybars.
And the endlinks on the OEM set up are non adjustable.....delima
To return the handling back to OEM'ish levels would you
1. Buy adjustable endlinks and
a. Make them longer
b. Make then shorter
2. Go to Poly bushings..just to firm things
3. Both...
Obviously going to a T1 set up while very attractive is another but I think that it would be overkill for a street car
Hotchicks might be a second "Over the top" solution
Last edited by BitViper; Mar 12, 2007 at 03:16 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,243
Likes: 1
From: Ooltewah TN
You have now changed everything about the handling of that car - suspension geometry, corner weights, rake, bottoming out shocks, roll center, etc, etc. I'd also wager that the car is now 1-3 seconds SLOWER on a road course. Go ahead...ask me how I know this. 
I lowered mine when I first got the car (didn't know any better) and later realized how much it hurt it.
In short, don't lower these cars unless you REALLY know what you are doing, have a 4-corner scale...and REALLY know what you are doing. The Phoenix guys did mine and just setting the correct height allowed the suspension to move AS DESIGNED...which was about 2 seconds per lap.
I lowered mine when I first got the car (didn't know any better) and later realized how much it hurt it. In short, don't lower these cars unless you REALLY know what you are doing, have a 4-corner scale...and REALLY know what you are doing. The Phoenix guys did mine and just setting the correct height allowed the suspension to move AS DESIGNED...which was about 2 seconds per lap.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,138
Likes: 37
From: Burbank. CA.
I'm not sure it could have more body roll, but if you say so then I guess it does. Hotchkis bars and 04,06 Z06 shocks is about all you could do. Poly bushing would not help in body roll and give you a very stiff ride.
Steve
Steve
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 7
From: Sandy Ego Ca.
I mentioned Poly's because I know that they don flex as much a sthe stock rubber bushings.
In a Camaro the ideal position of the ends of the swaybars is approx. parallel to the ground..what "eyeball" mesaurment can be made on a corvette?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 1
From: DFW TX
Slightly stiffer bars will fix thing nicely - hotchkis is the right level I think for what you want.
What really happened, was lowering dropped the roll centers relative to the CG of the car (1" suspension drop, maybe 1.5-2" drop in roll center). Since the suspension pivots around the roll center in roll, by increasing this distance, the springs and bars now have to work against the cornering force (say 1G) acting on the longer 'arm' between the CG and the roll center. Long story short, more body roll for the same cornering force, which needs to be compensated for.
What really happened, was lowering dropped the roll centers relative to the CG of the car (1" suspension drop, maybe 1.5-2" drop in roll center). Since the suspension pivots around the roll center in roll, by increasing this distance, the springs and bars now have to work against the cornering force (say 1G) acting on the longer 'arm' between the CG and the roll center. Long story short, more body roll for the same cornering force, which needs to be compensated for.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,243
Likes: 1
From: Ooltewah TN
Racing or not, you want the car to handle at it's peak. It's not only quicker on track, but it's also safer and more forgiving on the street.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 7
From: Sandy Ego Ca.
Retorically asking..do you really think that a set of T1' is required...
I mean Im running stock ZO6 bars already..stepping up 5mm thats huge.
The endlinks make sense since the cars no at a diffrent height.. and Im guessing that I need to set the the links to be longer than the stock ones to return the "angle of deflection" to OEM
EDIT....
did some data mining...
For anyone following this thread Ive found som other info...
Id love to talk to Sam Strano..does he ever frequent these boards....he worked majic with my Camaro
I mean Im running stock ZO6 bars already..stepping up 5mm thats huge.
The endlinks make sense since the cars no at a diffrent height.. and Im guessing that I need to set the the links to be longer than the stock ones to return the "angle of deflection" to OEM
EDIT....
did some data mining...
For anyone following this thread Ive found som other info...
C5Stien in a different thread...
If you radically lower a C5 or C6 and get the roll centers super low the car doesn't handle as well and you need to run alot more negative camber than if the roll centers were correct. Super low corvettes look cool, but just don't corner as well a stock height or moderately lowered Corvettes.
If you radically lower a C5 or C6 and get the roll centers super low the car doesn't handle as well and you need to run alot more negative camber than if the roll centers were correct. Super low corvettes look cool, but just don't corner as well a stock height or moderately lowered Corvettes.
TedDBere..in a different thread..
One of the idiosyncracies of a C5 suspension is that when you lower the car the toe moves in the exact opposite way you wanted it to go for autox. That is, the rear toes out and the front toes in. So whenever you adjust ride height/rake you should recheck and adjust your toe settings. The other common problem is that the front lower bushing will push out over time and mess with your handling...keep an eye on it.
One of the idiosyncracies of a C5 suspension is that when you lower the car the toe moves in the exact opposite way you wanted it to go for autox. That is, the rear toes out and the front toes in. So whenever you adjust ride height/rake you should recheck and adjust your toe settings. The other common problem is that the front lower bushing will push out over time and mess with your handling...keep an eye on it.
J.G. Pasterjak..in a different thread
Speaking of roll centers, anyone have a diagram showing how they move during lowering? I brought my car down a little, but I just sort of eyeballed the tie rod ends and sort of stopped when they looked nice and level. Ideally I'd like to be able to examine the roll centers graphically and figure out more exactly where I want to be. And where is the preferred roll center for the car?
Speaking of roll centers, anyone have a diagram showing how they move during lowering? I brought my car down a little, but I just sort of eyeballed the tie rod ends and sort of stopped when they looked nice and level. Ideally I'd like to be able to examine the roll centers graphically and figure out more exactly where I want to be. And where is the preferred roll center for the car?
Id love to talk to Sam Strano..does he ever frequent these boards....he worked majic with my Camaro
Last edited by BitViper; Mar 12, 2007 at 06:37 PM.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,070
Likes: 5
From: Charleston South Carolina
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 7
From: Sandy Ego Ca.
one of the LS1 sites..he seems to be more active there..I know he had some personal stuff going on a few months ago
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: Roanoke Virginia
Retorically asking..do you really think that a set of T1' is required...
I mean Im running stock ZO6 bars already..stepping up 5mm thats huge.
The endlinks make sense since the cars no at a diffrent height.. and Im guessing that I need to set the the links to be longer than the stock ones to return the "angle of deflection" to OEM
EDIT....
did some data mining...
For anyone following this thread Ive found som other info...
Id love to talk to Sam Strano..does he ever frequent these boards....he worked majic with my Camaro
I mean Im running stock ZO6 bars already..stepping up 5mm thats huge.
The endlinks make sense since the cars no at a diffrent height.. and Im guessing that I need to set the the links to be longer than the stock ones to return the "angle of deflection" to OEM
EDIT....
did some data mining...
For anyone following this thread Ive found som other info...
Id love to talk to Sam Strano..does he ever frequent these boards....he worked majic with my Camaro
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
FWIW, I talked with Sam Strano by phone and purchased parts from him over the past month. So far I only did 3 (lowering, alignment, sway bar change) of the 5 (shocks and race tires not done but ordered and on their way) changes Sam recommended and the car was good on the street but stellar at this past weekend's autocross. The right alignment is the best mod you can do on any sports car. Corner balancing is critical as well if it is adjustable like it is on the C5. Figure even if you pay $300 for the corner balance and alignment, you will get better handling than any shocks, sway bars or springs can do on a poorly weighted and aligned car. I'm a top 3 PAXer here for the past few years but not an national level driver so I have a little clue about good handling. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
From: Goose Creek SC
FWIW, I talked with Sam Strano by phone and purchased parts from him over the past month. So far I only did 3 (lowering, alignment, sway bar change) of the 5 (shocks and race tires not done but ordered and on their way) changes Sam recommended and the car was good on the street but stellar at this past weekend's autocross. The right alignment is the best mod you can do on any sports car. Corner balancing is critical as well if it is adjustable like it is on the C5. Figure even if you pay $300 for the corner balance and alignment, you will get better handling than any shocks, sway bars or springs can do on a poorly weighted and aligned car. I'm a top 3 PAXer here for the past few years but not an national level driver so I have a little clue about good handling.
Hammer
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
My setup is completely dependent on the components in the system. Sam asked me not to share, just point people who want to know to him. Considering how well it works, I'm doing as he asked. Also, keep in mind I'm limited to SCCA Solo2 Stock class rules.
For the record, he has answered at least a dozen questions by email post sale. I highly recommend his parts and advice. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. I think I owe Ted for pointing me to him.
For the record, he has answered at least a dozen questions by email post sale. I highly recommend his parts and advice. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. I think I owe Ted for pointing me to him.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 7
From: Sandy Ego Ca.
My setup is completely dependent on the components in the system. Sam asked me not to share, just point people who want to know to him. Considering how well it works, I'm doing as he asked. Also, keep in mind I'm limited to SCCA Solo2 Stock class rules.
For the record, he has answered at least a dozen questions by email post sale. I highly recommend his parts and advice. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. I think I owe Ted for pointing me to him.
For the record, he has answered at least a dozen questions by email post sale. I highly recommend his parts and advice. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. I think I owe Ted for pointing me to him.
Ive always been amazed how much time hes on line answering questions and he personally will answer questions over the phone....