CMY SIX

An AUTO for the track? and tell me that was'nt a base model sway bar I saw?

Allthrottleandsomebottle

Nothin wrong with either choice.....base everything works great!......each to their own for their reasons

2000BSME

That was a base model '04 Z06 sway bar that you saw, the base model '99 vette sway is in my garage, hanging from a shelf for the past 4 years.

What's wrong with an auto? A rocket ship, or jet plane don't need no stinkin' clutch... why should I?

Dirty Howie

And I thought our cars WERE our rocket ships


DH

Rag-Top Rick

So you track guys are saying that 230* really isn`t too high?

Running a B&M cooler with 9in fan mounted in the RF nose/brake duct cavity I`ve been hitting 230* during hardcore canyon carving in warm weather and thought I was waaay hot, sounds like that`s fairly normal for very aggressive driving!

JaxVette

I've got an '04 C5 Coupe automatic that I ran on the track (VIR) 4 times this year while my C4 and or my Z06 were down. I put a standard type tranny oil cooler in the front of the condensor coil (A/C Coil Up Front), Hotchkis Sway bars, my Z06 track tires & wheels and brake pads. Ran the hell out of it for 4 weekends instructing with NASA and a couple of other groups and never had any overheating problems with the tranny.

Get the cooler up front where all the COOL air is and you shouldn't have an overheating problem. The lines to the cooler aren't more than 12 to 14 inches long each from existing cooler lines and radiator.

Aardwolf

If it were mine I would start to worry at 230°. It depends on how long you want it to last. I had some heat varnish issues with my '88, ended up having to pull the valve body and flush it.

2000BSME

Those cooler lines were too close to my headers, and I thought that cooling would be better if the lines didn't soak up all the heat from the exhaust.

You may not have had problems at VIR because of the long straights. My 'home' track is very technical, and there are a lot of acceleration zones, imparting massive heat by means of oil shearing in the torque converter. Then again, you also might not have had any problems because you might not be very fast. I didn't have any problems during my slower events. Lately I've gotten very fast, which has accelerated my overheating problems.

-another thought is that I'm not running a stock stall tc either. Mine is from a Chevy Astro van, and I am running a Transgo HD2 shift kit as well, for reduced lock up, and more 'unlocked' in performance driving conditions.

2000BSME

I had to add a cooler for mountain road carving, something I used to participate in heavily before I started tracking the car. If you start tracking the car, you will need that area for brake cooling, and you will need to relocate your cooler.

230 ain't bad at all. I am trying to maintain mine at 200 for the HPDE type events, to prolong transmission life, but 230 isn't 'shut it down and stop running' temps. You should really worry if you can't keep it below 250-270. That will destroy the transmission in short order.

Dirty Howie

Too hot Rick


DH

undertaker

well to talk trans temps...since I don't pay attention in my vette because I have 3 pedals, not two....

I can bounce back to my 07 2500 sub.....that according to GM's infinite wisdom is rated for 7400 lbs with the 3.73's in it, or 9600 if it had 4.10's. I'm towin a loaded to the nuts 24 ft trailer, I'm easily at 9K lbs. I tow at 80 mph......usually towing the trans is in the 185-190ish area, unloaded 135-145 area. Yanking hills (this lame lil 6.0 loves to drop to 2nd gear and scream at 4500+ rpms and unlocks in 2nd...) I've seen up to 215-225 really hammering on it in summer heat. No overtemp warnings or anything. This is overcapacity, big aerodynamic drag leaning on the go pedal for most of what the truck was worth. Of course the coolant temp never moves from 210, hot, cold, towing, etc. its always there even when cranking on it. I know the new sub runs on dextron VI or something that seems to be dealer only so far, but its synthetic from the factory and might ahve a little higher heat tolerance, of course.....synthetics are usually more slippery as compared to conventional.......so that might provide problems for clutches so I'm not gonna recommend anything, just point it out. I was told 230 is about tops for what you want to hit, then things start breaking down.

Running fluid through the factory radiator will make the trans fluid warm up quicker on cold starts and also want to be at least coolant temp......those lines run through the same core... I personally like the idea of putting the cooler up front in the fresh air stream inline of the radiator. Thats the way its done on trucks towing, which really provides some serious heat issues, albeit not from racing...I'd mimic the thought for a car also.

Solofast

HELLO!!!!! EARTH TO BSME2000!!!! IT ISN'T THE AMOUNT OF COOLING, IT'S THE HEAT GENERATION!!!!

I have been watching this thread for a while and was wondering why you were having so much tranny overheating problems. Now we know...

Loosening up the TC is the absolutely fastest way to create huge amounts of heat, and if you do you most certainly aren't going to be able to get rid of it without a cooler the size of your water radiator....

Yes you are coming off the corners better but for crying out loud don't expect to be tracking a car with a loose converter without creating big bags of heat. The drag guys can do that since they only run for 12 seconds at at time and are only unlocked for only a couple of seconds for each run...

Before I saw what you were running I was going to suggest that maybe you would put in a converter that was "tighter" than stock, so that you would run locked up more and create less heat, and that is still probably a good idea. And yes, it will be slower off of some corners and you won't go as fast, but the problem with the A4 is too few gears that are too far apart, and that is why most people don't track them. That said, a C6 with a six speed auto and a tight converter would likely much better solution if you really have the urge to "2 pedal" it....

Another solution is to get the power off the corners back with a short rear axle and a tigher converter, but that is going to hurt the car on the street.

Untill you address the heat generation problem you probably aren't going to solve this with small "tacked on" coolers

mwvettec5

2000BSME

o'rly?

I was having heat problems before changing tc's, with the cooler in the front of the radiator.

Of course running a tc with a 300rpm higher stall is going to generate more heat, but it is in now, and I have to deal with it.

I have HPtuners, so once I learn more about how to tune the 'lockup' I can address the heat problem that way as well.

Truth is, in all my years of going to this track, about 4, I've never seen anyone with an automatic transmissioned car even come close to lapping it as quickly as I can. It is rare that the 6 speed vettes even offer challenge. Of course a well driven one seems to be capable of the low 1:40's, as witnessed by viewing Chris Ingles "tracktapes" on Barber, but then again, he is running (or was running) a T1 prepped Z. I've also watched tons of footage of a former world challenge racer (with me in the passenger seat) running his '04 z in the low 1:40's, but that was just a stock z with big Hoosiers.

I am running it in the mid 1:40's.

I had the rare treat of running the track with an automatic transmissioned '93 Supra this last weekend. The guy said it put out 435 to the rear wheels with his mods. I was blowing his doors off. Literally flying by him. His trans was only a three speed though.

Constructive comments are welcomed.

--I do not yet understand how the Transgo shift kit alters the lockup performance either...

2000BSME

that's what I'm running with now...

Allthrottleandsomebottle

And thats why I don't worry about 270 at sessions end with my 97 at VIR.........3800 stall 2.1 str, 3.73 gears and a heavy foot...

I also used to run a 00 coupe stock 3.15 w/ stock stall, LTs, CAI, tune, catback and 4 quart deep pan.............no issues with heat

2000BSME

how many transmissions have you been through? I don't want to be able to run for an hour and not see more than 230*. I don't want to change transmissions every year either. That's too much work.

Allthrottleandsomebottle

Only 1 break in 3 years due to 300+ 1/4 mile passes and 10K hard miles....freshened and broke a drum ......change the fluid often and I see all is well. Went to a level III as well.
Mine is an upgraded Rossler so between the upgrade and new fluid its all good. Road racing is a lot less stress than drag racing......
I just blew out a front seal due to playing on the trans brake to much........of well, my winter project AND upgrade time maybe...

2000BSME

I hope that's true, now I may have to give up my winter season drag racing between road events. My last transmission lasted through proably 50 1/8th mile runs and 6 HPDE days, and countless mountain climbing fun runs. I want this transmission to last at least 2-3 HPDE seasons.

2000BSME

Cliff Notes: Some of my cooling problems may have been due to a transmission problem. Bad seal on my overrun piston was causing the trans oil pump to pump only idle volume of oil during deceleration. Lower volume of oil circulation unless accelerating may have been the cause of the major heat issues. My theory is this: The transmission pump is driven by the input to the transmission, correct? So if the input disengages at any time other than acceleration and goes to ‘idle’ speed, a much lower volume of oil is being circulated through the transmission cooler, correct?

Well after a couple track days on my new transmission, a level IV from RPM, I decided to start 'assigning' certain behaviors to certain modifications. I had put a truck converter with a slightly higher stall, and a new tranny, with the HD-2 Transgo reprogramming kit in my '99 back in the summer.

I didn't know completely what to expect from these changes, so I drove the car for a few track days, like I said, and decided to try and gain a better understanding of how an automatic transmission actually functions and all of the particular changes that each item contributed.

So I called the shift kit guys at Transgo, and they had a very difficult time even understanding what I was trying to say to them. Basically I was saying that after I let off the gas pedal, the transmission disengaged from the engine, and I didn't have any engine decelleration effect any more. The trans/rear end would rotate at the same rpms as the car was travelling, and the engine would idle, until I got back on the throttle and then the engine would again engage the torque converter/transmission and then I would move forward.

No luck talking to them, next on my list was the folks at RPM. I gave TJ a ring, and described the phenomenon that I was experiencing, and he put me on hold to go and confer with some of the other guys. He came back to tell me that I had one of either two things wrong with my transmission. One, my overrun clutches were burnt up, or two, my overrun piston/seal was bad. He said to send the tranny back and they would fix it under warranty.

Sad, because I didn't want to remove the transmission, I told him I would think about it for a while and get back to him. I decided to drive up to their shop in Indiana (7hrs. in cold weather) and let them do all the work. I opted to tow my vette with my 2006 Duramax Silverado, and stay the night in the nearest motel (no hotels near).

Driving was a little scary when I got to Louisville and there on up, as the roads were freshly cleared from the major snowstorm that went through a few days earlier.

I dropped the car off about midnight or so, and came back in the morning to ‘assist’ with the job. I met the guys and they began the work of removing the transmission. It didn’t take very long at all for them to have the transmission out, (an hour and a half ), and then they pulled every part out of the transmission and rebuilt it in front of my very eyes. It was in great shape, and the only apparent problem was a cut rubber seal on the overrun clutch piston. They didn’t know how that happened, but they said it was a rarity, and that I would have the car back in a few more hours.

Well, I saw that they had a few rear ends sitting around in their store room. I asked if they had a 3.73 for my car. They said no, but they did have a 3.42.

Since the labor was to be free anyway, I couldn’t resist, especially since my car is primarily used for tracking. I put it on the plastic!

I got the car back and wow, back to normal with the deceleration engine braking once again. Now I just need to have another track day and find out if my theory was right.

A big thanks to Rodney and the stand up guys at RPM transmissions.