NASA Events/HPDEs
10-10-2008, 11:33 AM
#1
Drifting
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NASA Events/HPDEs
Are these events safe enough or does one have to definitely get insurance when going to these events? After reading some posts, it seems to be mentioned how aggressive people drive in these events.
Is it mandatory to get insurance?
Have there been any incidences(major or minor)? How does it work, if someone else crashes into you and both of you dont have insurance, they just walk away and the repairs are left to you?
Thanks
Is it mandatory to get insurance?
Have there been any incidences(major or minor)? How does it work, if someone else crashes into you and both of you dont have insurance, they just walk away and the repairs are left to you?
Thanks
10-10-2008, 02:16 PM
#2
I have been doing DEs with NASA and other clubs for about 6 years. The fact is that unless you buy special insurance you are probable are not cover. So most people do not risk what they can not afford to walk away from. You run at your own risk.
In that time in DEs I have not seen one car hit another one. People have hit walls, blown engines, broken hoses. all kinds of things that break on a car have broken on track. Someone dropping oil on the track could make multiple cars wreck. Stuff like that is very rare.
Yes some driver are more aggressive than other but that is true in all things that are competitive.
If you have never done a track day you do not know what you are missing. I feel that driving on track is safer than I285 during rush hour.
You will know with the first session you do if you are going to like it or not. Most get hooked and become track junkies and feed their habit as much as their pocket book will let them.
Go to an event hear you. You can find someone who will give you a ride if you ask nicely.
In that time in DEs I have not seen one car hit another one. People have hit walls, blown engines, broken hoses. all kinds of things that break on a car have broken on track. Someone dropping oil on the track could make multiple cars wreck. Stuff like that is very rare.
Yes some driver are more aggressive than other but that is true in all things that are competitive.
If you have never done a track day you do not know what you are missing. I feel that driving on track is safer than I285 during rush hour.
You will know with the first session you do if you are going to like it or not. Most get hooked and become track junkies and feed their habit as much as their pocket book will let them.
Go to an event hear you. You can find someone who will give you a ride if you ask nicely.
10-10-2008, 02:30 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
I've been to 11 HPDE events this year. None of them had any car-to-car contact. Only one of them had cars damaged - one into a tire wall (guy drove it home), one over a tire wall (drivable but guy put it on a trailer). Lots of cars have gone off track and mowed down a few weeds, but no damage. Saw one Honda blow an engine. Thats about it.
10-10-2008, 02:54 PM
#5
Racer
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Some of the track insurance companies will allow you so many events per year. You agree on what the value of your car is up front. Also you can purchase as you go. Search the forum there has been a lot of discussion about this along with recommendations on a few carriers. I have participated in HPDE's since 2003 while I have not had a wreck I have seen some pretty bad ones in HPDE. Mostly cars that get into a situation where they end up hitting a wall or tire barrier. You normally don't see cars banging each other in HPDE. I find the guys driving in these events especially in the levels 3 and 4 are very aware of where cars are around them. Unless you are in the top HPDE group points by's are required and in the top they are recommended but not always required. If in doubt about insurance it may make sense to get it. You don't want to be worrying about anything but driving. Driving insurance does not cover mechanical failures either. Insurance was a topic at The Glen last week when I was there and one driver mentioned he called his insurance company an inquired about his policy whether is covers HPDE events, a week later he got a cancellation notice! Holy (^_&__)* I did not know a company could do that!
10-10-2008, 03:20 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
2. Exactly.
3. Exactly.
4. More than Exactly.
10-10-2008, 04:09 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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St. Jude Donor '07
I have always said you are more likely to get in an accident on the public streets then at a track event. Sure there are crazy people on both, but at least everyone is driving the same direction the the track and likely have more experience in performance driving then some yahoo on the street!
10-10-2008, 04:23 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
I have seen one car to car contact in HPDE in all of them I have attended (and that is a bunch). It was caused by driver error - twice in a row in a bad location.
Accidents are not common in HPDE but they do happen. Most track insurance is not worth the premium IMHO - but there are some options out there.
Accidents are not common in HPDE but they do happen. Most track insurance is not worth the premium IMHO - but there are some options out there.
10-10-2008, 04:33 PM
#9
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NASA members
A rarely-touted benefit of membership for NASA events - as posted on their website:
Membership
NASA members are entitled to enter and participate in any NASA event across the country and membership includes an array of benefits including vendor discounts and a complimentary subscription to Grassroots Motorsports magazine which includes a section devoted to NASA’s newsletter, Speednews. Members will also receive a colorful hard card membership card that will identify them as part of the organization and a welcome packet that includes more information on the many benefits and programs available to NASA members. While participating at events, all NASA members are covered by an extensive insurance policy, which includes General Liability, Accidental Death and Dismemberment, and Excess Medical coverage. Best of all, membership is only $44.00. Sign up now!
Membership
NASA members are entitled to enter and participate in any NASA event across the country and membership includes an array of benefits including vendor discounts and a complimentary subscription to Grassroots Motorsports magazine which includes a section devoted to NASA’s newsletter, Speednews. Members will also receive a colorful hard card membership card that will identify them as part of the organization and a welcome packet that includes more information on the many benefits and programs available to NASA members. While participating at events, all NASA members are covered by an extensive insurance policy, which includes General Liability, Accidental Death and Dismemberment, and Excess Medical coverage. Best of all, membership is only $44.00. Sign up now!
10-10-2008, 08:45 PM
#10
Premium Supporting Vendor
That insurance mentioned above doesn't cover the car...
I've been to probably 30+ DEs over the years and have seen crashes, but none wheel to wheel. Probably worst I saw was a 525i that spun off a track, hit soft ground sideways and rolled catching about every piece of body work and window on the car. Pretty sure it ripped all four tires part way off the rims as well. That said, I think he drove it home.
Overall, I agree with the others that have said "don't take to the track that which you can't afford to walk away from."
FYI, I totaled my Vette in 06 and it was all me so while it was a race, just as easily could have been a DE. One missed shift, a concrete wall, 100+ mph = bad day.
I've been to probably 30+ DEs over the years and have seen crashes, but none wheel to wheel. Probably worst I saw was a 525i that spun off a track, hit soft ground sideways and rolled catching about every piece of body work and window on the car. Pretty sure it ripped all four tires part way off the rims as well. That said, I think he drove it home.
Overall, I agree with the others that have said "don't take to the track that which you can't afford to walk away from."
FYI, I totaled my Vette in 06 and it was all me so while it was a race, just as easily could have been a DE. One missed shift, a concrete wall, 100+ mph = bad day.
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AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog
10-10-2008, 09:45 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
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That insurance mentioned above doesn't cover the car...
I've been to probably 30+ DEs over the years and have seen crashes, but none wheel to wheel. Probably worst I saw was a 525i that spun off a track, hit soft ground sideways and rolled catching about every piece of body work and window on the car. Pretty sure it ripped all four tires part way off the rims as well. That said, I think he drove it home.
Overall, I agree with the others that have said "don't take to the track that which you can't afford to walk away from."
FYI, I totaled my Vette in 06 and it was all me so while it was a race, just as easily could have been a DE. One missed shift, a concrete wall, 100+ mph = bad day.
I've been to probably 30+ DEs over the years and have seen crashes, but none wheel to wheel. Probably worst I saw was a 525i that spun off a track, hit soft ground sideways and rolled catching about every piece of body work and window on the car. Pretty sure it ripped all four tires part way off the rims as well. That said, I think he drove it home.
Overall, I agree with the others that have said "don't take to the track that which you can't afford to walk away from."
FYI, I totaled my Vette in 06 and it was all me so while it was a race, just as easily could have been a DE. One missed shift, a concrete wall, 100+ mph = bad day.
10-11-2008, 12:51 AM
#12
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Approximately 1% of the cars running in HPDEs will have an accident. I have been to events with 100 cars running and nothing happened and I have been at other events with the same number of cars where several of them were towed away. Usually the incidents involve cars running in the advanced groups and very rarely a novice.
Bill
Bill
10-11-2008, 09:46 AM
#13
Race Director
Approximately 1% of the cars running in HPDEs will have an accident. I have been to events with 100 cars running and nothing happened and I have been at other events with the same number of cars where several of them were towed away. Usually the incidents involve cars running in the advanced groups and very rarely a novice.
Bill
Bill
10-11-2008, 10:43 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
10-14-2008, 08:57 AM
#15
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I organize two DEs a year. The only accident I've seen - was my own husband in our car - our driver's side - front tire - blew out. He made it off the track safely, however, it went up on a burr and then stopped. Then it fell on its head. Took 6 SCCA guys to turn it upright.
So things can happen.
Meanwhile, we were lucky, because it was a DE and everything checked out that it was nothing but a DE, our insurance company totaled the car and paid out. Then they gave us a few weeks to find a new policy. They wanted us to stay with them, but it would have been brutally high and with less benefits.
After that I went on an active search. Most of the DE folks I know, just love doing DEs and only a few a year. I found Ryan Staub, he was organizing a new kind of track insurance - one that you paid for per event. After a painfully, long interrogation of how we handle things, I was so happy that our organization's events were approved, and that our participants could order this insurance.
You better believe that hubby will have the car covered when he is out there. Though we also did a "self-insurance" -- but an inexpensive car, put a few thousand in to fix it up, and then...knew should something happen, we could walk away. But still, for us, 79 bucks covers a three day event, and should something happen - it's a 1000 deductible, and we'd get something back to buy the next inexpensive track car. Whew.
************
BTW - I was always under the belief (from my own observations) that DEs if there is an incident, is restricted to one car. In racing, more than one. I've been told by a Safety Steward at PCA - it's the other way around. I'm feeling stubborn - I don't believe it. But he swears his statistics show it...
So things can happen.
Meanwhile, we were lucky, because it was a DE and everything checked out that it was nothing but a DE, our insurance company totaled the car and paid out. Then they gave us a few weeks to find a new policy. They wanted us to stay with them, but it would have been brutally high and with less benefits.
After that I went on an active search. Most of the DE folks I know, just love doing DEs and only a few a year. I found Ryan Staub, he was organizing a new kind of track insurance - one that you paid for per event. After a painfully, long interrogation of how we handle things, I was so happy that our organization's events were approved, and that our participants could order this insurance.
You better believe that hubby will have the car covered when he is out there. Though we also did a "self-insurance" -- but an inexpensive car, put a few thousand in to fix it up, and then...knew should something happen, we could walk away. But still, for us, 79 bucks covers a three day event, and should something happen - it's a 1000 deductible, and we'd get something back to buy the next inexpensive track car. Whew.
************
BTW - I was always under the belief (from my own observations) that DEs if there is an incident, is restricted to one car. In racing, more than one. I've been told by a Safety Steward at PCA - it's the other way around. I'm feeling stubborn - I don't believe it. But he swears his statistics show it...
10-14-2008, 12:41 PM
#16
Drifting
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I organize two DEs a year. The only accident I've seen - was my own husband in our car - our driver's side - front tire - blew out. He made it off the track safely, however, it went up on a burr and then stopped. Then it fell on its head. Took 6 SCCA guys to turn it upright.
So things can happen.
Meanwhile, we were lucky, because it was a DE and everything checked out that it was nothing but a DE, our insurance company totaled the car and paid out. Then they gave us a few weeks to find a new policy. They wanted us to stay with them, but it would have been brutally high and with less benefits.
After that I went on an active search. Most of the DE folks I know, just love doing DEs and only a few a year. I found Ryan Staub, he was organizing a new kind of track insurance - one that you paid for per event. After a painfully, long interrogation of how we handle things, I was so happy that our organization's events were approved, and that our participants could order this insurance.
You better believe that hubby will have the car covered when he is out there. Though we also did a "self-insurance" -- but an inexpensive car, put a few thousand in to fix it up, and then...knew should something happen, we could walk away. But still, for us, 79 bucks covers a three day event, and should something happen - it's a 1000 deductible, and we'd get something back to buy the next inexpensive track car. Whew.
************
BTW - I was always under the belief (from my own observations) that DEs if there is an incident, is restricted to one car. In racing, more than one. I've been told by a Safety Steward at PCA - it's the other way around. I'm feeling stubborn - I don't believe it. But he swears his statistics show it...
So things can happen.
Meanwhile, we were lucky, because it was a DE and everything checked out that it was nothing but a DE, our insurance company totaled the car and paid out. Then they gave us a few weeks to find a new policy. They wanted us to stay with them, but it would have been brutally high and with less benefits.
After that I went on an active search. Most of the DE folks I know, just love doing DEs and only a few a year. I found Ryan Staub, he was organizing a new kind of track insurance - one that you paid for per event. After a painfully, long interrogation of how we handle things, I was so happy that our organization's events were approved, and that our participants could order this insurance.
You better believe that hubby will have the car covered when he is out there. Though we also did a "self-insurance" -- but an inexpensive car, put a few thousand in to fix it up, and then...knew should something happen, we could walk away. But still, for us, 79 bucks covers a three day event, and should something happen - it's a 1000 deductible, and we'd get something back to buy the next inexpensive track car. Whew.
************
BTW - I was always under the belief (from my own observations) that DEs if there is an incident, is restricted to one car. In racing, more than one. I've been told by a Safety Steward at PCA - it's the other way around. I'm feeling stubborn - I don't believe it. But he swears his statistics show it...
What insurance company covers a 3 day event in 79$? i would love to know.
10-15-2008, 03:54 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
I have bought HPDE insurance through Lockton Affinity:
http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx?cID=31
For up to 3 day events, the cost for a little over $40K damage coverage on the Corvette, with modifications, two drivers plus an instructor, comes out to less than $250. The policy has a minimum $2000 deductible, or 5% of agreed value, whichever is higher.
The only times I've done this are a couple of situations this year where my gf was also driving the car at the same event. Since she has a lot less experience than I do, I figure its a good hedge against a major disaster. But I feel better knowing I'm covered as well, especially since I run in the fast run groups with some very fast cars, and things can get dicey very easily. I haven't bought it just for me.
The only drawback with the Lockton HPDE coverage is that the event you are participating in must be approved by them and meet certain requirements. So far, the groups I've been running with have no problem qualifying, but the group must apply for acceptance for coverage to be written.
Thank goodness, so far (knock on wood) I have not needed the coverage. This is definitely something you buy and hope you never use.
http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx?cID=31
For up to 3 day events, the cost for a little over $40K damage coverage on the Corvette, with modifications, two drivers plus an instructor, comes out to less than $250. The policy has a minimum $2000 deductible, or 5% of agreed value, whichever is higher.
The only times I've done this are a couple of situations this year where my gf was also driving the car at the same event. Since she has a lot less experience than I do, I figure its a good hedge against a major disaster. But I feel better knowing I'm covered as well, especially since I run in the fast run groups with some very fast cars, and things can get dicey very easily. I haven't bought it just for me.
The only drawback with the Lockton HPDE coverage is that the event you are participating in must be approved by them and meet certain requirements. So far, the groups I've been running with have no problem qualifying, but the group must apply for acceptance for coverage to be written.
Thank goodness, so far (knock on wood) I have not needed the coverage. This is definitely something you buy and hope you never use.