LG Motorsports

I mentioned "government owned" only because of the decision to Curve the pit wall into the racing surface rather than keep the wall straight and widen the pit lane toward the paddock. Only government could make such a decision, not a race track.

SCAMP is in control of the track (whatever SCAMP means) and that track has more sheriffs, motorcycle police and officials of any track in the USA.
They run it with an Iron Fist. We had to put up a $1,000,000 insurance policy in order to buy a $50 golf cart pass??

other than that, I still wonder why they put a curve in the pit wall.
I warned my drivers about this curve in the wall BEFORE the race because I have seen exactly this happen before. In fact, I was involved in a similar but not as extensive crash in the Exact place.

There was a car trying to pass on the left, and I didn't see him and as the wall came out, he lifted just in time and only crashed his nose. I had no idea he was there and I did not move to the left, but the wall moved to the right.

So I have been keenly aware of the wall and what can happen because of it.


I have to say one more thing. With Corvette Racing having a Moto that clearly states, "Take No Prisoners" that Corvette Racing has adopted (when racing no one), that implies that you "kill your opponent" rather than take a prisoner. So the mind set and attitude is already there. AND actions of any kind, have a reaction. Things like this can and will happen if you race with that mindset

LG

TedDBere

I think, after looking at all the tapes, it appears that Jan thought to himself, "We're not going to win this unless I do something." So he did something, bumped Jorg in the rear. At best to try and loosen the rear so the corvette could out drag him to the finish, or at worse, an attempt to spin him. Jorg then forcefully moved Jan over to the wall but didn't put him into it hard. It appears Jan had passed the Porsche on the inside but upon attempting to avoid the barrier he turned the wheel quickly and spun the car across the track and into the opposite wall.

Congratulations to Porsche for the win. And I'm sure there were many opportunities for the Corvette to win that race over 12 hours given the apparent dominance of the car in the last two laps. They shouldn't have let it get that close to begin with...IMHO.

jhester

The rules read that the driver can make one defensive move (aka block) so Bergmeister was within rules to drive the vette to the wall (that was the one move) but he could not put him into the left wall, or make another move regardless of what the vette did. After you make the one move, within the rules you are committed and you cannot make a second to block the counter-attack.

fej

As I said in the other thread, this would be an entirely different conversation if the cars were reversed. Lots of "atta boy" and "rubbin is racing, nice work Jan!" would be the comments instead of "dirty porsche" drivers.

Thank you LG for your facts and experiences. Pretty lame that the "factory" guys pull BS like that, even on track.

Looks like I only have 1 vette team to pull for next year, as that is just low class.

Hell even in Forza that wall moves towards the "track", it has spun me many a lap

It is unfortunate that a crash came of this, and I am glad Jan is ok. The more I see it, the more I think a bump for a bump, and Jan lost.

Fej

shakedown067

After reading LG's comments (nice insight with the pit wall) and reading the Factory vette comments, it looks like Jan should have backed down. Sure Jorg pushed him left, but Jan could have backed off. He stayed in it and knew the chance he was taking. I think Jorg did check up in 11 and helped setup the dragrace, but it was just really hard racing between two great drivers. The adrenaline must have been through the roof for both drivers and no one wanted to lift. You could see that Jorg was still shaking in his post race interview.

sinatra vette

congrats on the championship flying lizard! drink up as it WILL BE YOUR LAST! this talk about jan should "back off" and corvette is "dirty drivers" makes me sick. i wonder if some of you people have won anything in your life! you have to hang it all on the line to get the W! to me it looked like the porsche slowed in the hairpin to check up the vette. the bump was not that ignorant however pushing a car in the wall??!! jan is a great driver. corvette will take the championship next year. you just sealed your fate limp lizards!

Joe_Knesek

Lou I don't see how Magnussen can be blamed for this outcome. I'm not a professional racer but after going back through the tape frame by frame, it's clear that Bergmeister turned left 3 times to pinch off Magnussen ultimately driving him in the wall. Magnussen only turned right after Bergmeister contacted his left rear.

In the set up of Bergmeister's post race interview Dorsey Schroeder said "look he runs him all the way to the wall & turns him". This kind of driving has to stop before something tragic happens.

After re-watching his post race interview, I agree that Bergmeister regrets his decisions & actions. He likely got caught up in the heat of the battle as all of us do. True Greats like Arton Senna, Mark Martin & Wayne Gretzky rarely get caught up in the heat of the battle because they possess the mental and physical stamina to make good decisions in the face of chaos.

LG Motorsports

Lots of good points here guys. Dorsey always makes mistakes in his commentary. But he called the "Chrome Horn" hit in turn 11 before it happened.

Actually Jan turned right, into Jorg to avoid the wall coming up, and only then did he turn 90 degrees right when he hit the porsche.

We can only speculate but the data would show each steering input and the time line to show what really happened.

BUT if you are going to say, "Win at all cost", then don't complain when you get the bill. If the cost is too much, then you are not willing to win at ALL cost.

Both drivers wanted the win. Jan had no problem banging lap after lap. The Vette won Mosport by banging into the Ferrari knocking him into the marbles. In that case the Ferrari was not willing to "win at all cost" and he settled for second.

you can not race that way and expect to never pay the price.

LG

Zee Freak

Lou,

I think the factory Vettes run into you on purpose. They want to be the only vettes on track. So they are trying to intimidate you by banging into your car every time they go by.

Just a thought.

Bwright

You are 100% correct. That Bergmeister deliberately ran Magnussen into the wall is so obvious that had Magnussen or any other driver in his position been killed in the resulting crash Bergmeister would almost surely be convicted of a very serious crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwXugrQXaM In the preceding video never mind 2:01 where Bergmeister makes it a point to make sure the faster Vette is moved over into the dirt let’s just watch frames 1:40 – 1:47. What’s interesting about that segment of the video is that that was the line Bergmeister had been using all day long for that segment of track. Freeze the video second by second and count how many cars you could fit between Bergmeister’s Porsche and the wall during those frames. I figure at least two and in the first few seconds as many as three.

Now watch the video from 3:07 on. As we all now know you could no longer even fit one car in the gap. As you accurately noted, you can count three clear steering corrections by Bergmeister into the Corvette on the inside wall. The first few seconds from 3:07 – 3:09 are actually shocking in their flagrance as the Porsche doesn't even try to pretend it is aiming for anything other than the Vette's passenger door. Bergmeister kept at it until he basically effected a pit maneuver on the Corvette. The resulting significant crash could have had very serious effects for the Corvette’s driver and any track workers or spectators had the Vette punched through or flipped over a barrier. As far as I’m concerned Bergmeister is completely unprofessional and this will likely permanently mark his career. The only thing that prevents it from being a certainty is that Magnussen walked away. Had he not, a jury watching those two segments of footage and reviewing the clearly different lines he drove on the same segments of track and radically different telemetry to back it up would have nailed HIM to a wall.

Bergmeister had been coming into that final turn in such a way that he would, as frames 1:40 – 1:47 clearly showed, carry more momentum and run outside on the right far away from the wall. But on that last lap he braked more than normal to ensure that the Vette could not get under him on the left because he knew if it did he couldn’t catch it. As Magnussen commented afterward, “I didn't think I even had a chance after I had to give the position back. Going into the last corner I was too far away to make a proper attack, but Joerg parked the car. I didn't see that, so I slid up and hit him a little - he went sideways and I managed to get on the inside.”

"It was a drag race up the hill, and I managed to get ahead of him. Then he turned me into the wall, and he kept turning in. Then I spun around the nose of his car." Magnussen is correct. As the footage clearly showed, and again you accurately observed, Bergmeister kept turning in (three times) until he had put the Vette into the wall.

LG Motorsports

Turn two, moving the Vette over is actually the Vette hitting the Porsche that was on the line that we all take. The vette went on the out side, in the marbles where there is no traction and he had to hit the porsche to try to stay on the porsche right side.

It is very hard to hit a car with your back fender as you area saying here. The Porsche took turn 2 on line, and there is no way to leave a car width on the right side if you are actually trying to race fast.

and in turn 11 jan was not turning into the turn, he was AIMING at the Porsche. But that is just one tactic to open the door. But please don't claim that jan was looking for an honorable pass.

If you really look at it the Corvette hit the wall where it bumps out and that put the Corvette into a 90 degrees to the right. The Porsche could not hit the rear bumper of the vette to turn it because the wall was there. The Corvette hit the wall first and that turned him in front of the porsche.

It is clear that this incident is "UNCLEAR". and it will come down to who you are supporting, not what the facts are.

Like I said, Jan is a class act at Corvette racing. But he paid the price for his part in this incident. And they both had a part.

LG

mousecatcher

you're confusing the issue. when exiting the pits you are not allowed to cross the blend line. depending on the track, you may be allowed to cross the blend line when you are on track. Laguna Seca is not one of those tracks, though.

mousecatcher

That decision is not made by the government. (The government is us, BTW.)

SCRAMP. The insurance may be because to get around outside of the paddock you have to travel on public roads. (They are in the park but they are still public.)

But when I say it is independent, I mean they are not elected officials and they are not beholden to citizens as far as their decisions on how to run the track. They do of course have to enforce public laws such as sound regulations, but that's something any private track has to do as well.

that is a mystery to me!

mousecatcher

i understand the situation is arguable. but for all the folks that want to say "dirty bergmeister", don't overlook the dirty driving during the entire race by both the #3 and #4 cars. it embarrasses the corvette team.

joemoia

Lou, are data acq systems REQUIRED by IMSA? Would IMSA get the data from both cars for an analysis? Reading all the opinions about this incident reminds me of watching the movie Rashomon, there seems to be several versions of the "truth". I'd really like to know what the data would show.

Lawdogg

Can't agree that the run to the finish was unclear. The Porche had the entire track to the right open yet he left less than the Corvette's car width to the left. He also had damage to his left front which would be hard to do if you are ahead.

Lawdogg

The line you are drawing isn't so bright. To me you can't compare bumps that don't wreck a car with grinding a car into a wall and then spinning it out.

LG Motorsports

Guys,

I watched the video over and over and here is what is obvious. the Corvette turned hard right,90 degrees, in an instant. That happened because the Corvette hit the wall first which turned him hard right. You saw the rest.

The Porsche got hit in 11 deliberately and did not feel any need to give the Corvette more than one car width at the wall. Yes he had the entire track to the right but the Corvette in turn 11 had the entire track other than the part under the Porsche rear wheels.
It all comes back to the wall changing direction that made the Corvette hit the wall first to cause the quick change of direction.

If the Porsche had hit the corvette on the right rear, it would have pushed the rear over to the wall. But instead the front of the Corvette turned hard right. Which indicates that the Corvette hit the wall first and was WHipped to the right. It was 90 degrees in an instant.

The Porsche was trying to get in front of the Corvette and block the path up the left side after the attempted spin/hit by the corvette. The corvette then put his nose up on the porsche left side and the Porsche cold not block the full lane. The rest happened as I stated above.


If you have ever driven Laguna, you will know the curve on the pit wall that I speak of.

Thanks

Lou G

Dave Deerson

Sorry guys,
I definitely side with LG on this one.Being a racer I just don't see anything "dirty" done by Bergmeister. JM got the outcome that comes when you hang it all out for the win. He got squeezed,no doubt, but the smart thing to do would have been to lift,realize the you came in second today,and race again another day. When you don't own the car or pay the repair bills,it is very easy to race like that I have met Bergmeister and if you look at his reume he is as professional and world class as they come(you don't get to be a Porsche factory team driver at the young age he was by being mediocre) lt seems everyone makes their beloved Factory Corvette team and drivers out to be saints...........well we know better than that(it seems like the previous hits,blocks and bad sportsmanship are easily forgotten) . Dorsey was even remarking that coming to the line "watch as Jan will probably put a fender to him(Bergmeister)". What about that dive bomb hit Jan put in going into the last turn,I don't buy the whole "check up" under braking scenario,he was trying to get the Porsche loose........If I was Jorg I'm sure I would like to get in and out of that turn as quickly as possible to get to that line. There's alot of speculation here from guys that most likely don't race wheel to wheel. I'd like to see more replies from the other racers on this forum. What would the comments be this morning if Jan did spin the Porsche and went on to win the race? Would there be a bunch of "atta boys" and "that's how the big boys get it done" or some other bravado- laced response? It just seems like too much Monday morning armchair quaterbacking to me.

mousecatcher

You reap what you sow. Bergmeister's move wasn't just out of the blue, it was prompted by Jan's own actions.

Not sure why I'm responding to someone who has the need to resort to ad hominem, but you are assuming that Jorg was the bumper instead of the bumpee. I think Jan ran into Jorg (when driving away from the wall). I don't understand why they haven't published the in-car video -- that would clear up a lot.

The dirty driving by the corvettes easily had the same potential injury factor. I haven't seen a single post critical of the #4 car for taking out 3 other cars in the 2nd restart.