We are SO dead...
01-05-2010, 07:53 PM
#21
Team Owner
May be part of the problem is Japan, Korea, China and others having their home market sewed up by excluding all competition. Look what Japan just did with their clunker program. Japan basically excluded all the foreign competition with regulations and taxes. How would it be if we just did that here in the USA?
How would Toyota be doing if the USA treated them like Japan treats foreign companies? They would be missing more than half their worldwide sales and more than half their profits. Reported by WTO as the most closed industrial country in the world. Three domestics are not perfect but they do not have the same chance we gave foreign competition here.
GM was told they could not import CTS to China they told them build it here in China if you want to sell it. Time for this country to wake up before there is nothing left here. Foreign countries have created a oneway trade agenda for themselves and ith it go US jobs and money.
Last Updated: December 11. 2009 10:47AM
Detroit automakers say Japan's 'cash for clunkers' excludes U.S. vehicles
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
Detroit's Big Three automakers urged the U.S. government Thursday to take action over what they labeled Japan's discriminatory "cash for clunkers" program.
In a letter to the deputy U.S. trade representative, General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC called the program "another example of Japan continuing efforts to discriminate against imported vehicles."
The program makes "the vast majority of imports ineligible for the program's significant tax cut benefit, regardless of the vehicle's fuel efficiency," the letter said.
Japan is providing up to a $2,830 tax cut for scrapping a car 13 years old or older toward the purchase of a new vehicle, as long as it meets the 2010 fuel efficiency requirements, and a $1,130 incentive for new vehicle purchasers who do not scrap a vehicle.
The U.S. government said it was raising the issue with its Japanese counterparts and agreed that changes must be made.
The Japanese auto market has long been one of the most closed in the world for U.S. automakers and other imports, which account for less than 5 percent of the nation's sales.
Under Japan's program, no U.S. vehicles are eligible because of special import rules; 87 percent of Japanese-built vehicles are eligible.
Domestic automakers have long railed over what they call unfair hurdles to selling vehicles in Japan and have been trying to get more access to the market. It's unclear how much a favorable change would boost U.S. exports to Japan.
Carol Guthrie, a spokeswoman for the U.S. trade representative, said the government was working to address the issue. "USTR is continuing to raise this issue with the Japanese government. Our position remains that changes are necessary to give U.S. vehicles greater opportunity to qualify under Japan's program," she said Thursday.
Nearly half of the U.S. government's $3 billion Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS) program came from sales of Japanese cars and trucks. Japanese brands grabbed 319,300 out of a total of 677,000 in sales in the month-long U.S. "cash for clunkers" program.
That's well above the 260,561 vehicles sold by U.S. automakers, whose vehicles also accounted for 85 percent of all trade-ins.
Toyota Motor Corp. was the No. 1 seller in the U.S. clunkers program with 19.5 percent.
"We urge the U.S. government to make clear that it cannot tolerate this outright discrimination, particularly at a time when it has provided substantial direct financial support for Japanese automakers in this market," said the letter from the Detroit Three's trade arm, the American Automotive Policy Council.
Some in Congress wanted to try to craft the U.S. program to favor U.S.-built vehicles, but that idea was scrapped because of fears it would violate international trade rules.
The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, or JAMA, declined to comment and the Japanese Embassy in Washington didn't return messages seeking comment.
In explaining the reason for implementing the roughly $3.7 billion program, JAMA said in a fact sheet that sales in Japan have fallen sharply this year.
Japanese vehicle sales fell by 5 percent in 2008 from 2007 and have dropped by 17.6 percent for the first eight months of 2009.
dshepardson@detnews.com (202) 662-8735
How would Toyota be doing if the USA treated them like Japan treats foreign companies? They would be missing more than half their worldwide sales and more than half their profits. Reported by WTO as the most closed industrial country in the world. Three domestics are not perfect but they do not have the same chance we gave foreign competition here.
GM was told they could not import CTS to China they told them build it here in China if you want to sell it. Time for this country to wake up before there is nothing left here. Foreign countries have created a oneway trade agenda for themselves and ith it go US jobs and money.
Last Updated: December 11. 2009 10:47AM
Detroit automakers say Japan's 'cash for clunkers' excludes U.S. vehicles
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
Detroit's Big Three automakers urged the U.S. government Thursday to take action over what they labeled Japan's discriminatory "cash for clunkers" program.
In a letter to the deputy U.S. trade representative, General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC called the program "another example of Japan continuing efforts to discriminate against imported vehicles."
The program makes "the vast majority of imports ineligible for the program's significant tax cut benefit, regardless of the vehicle's fuel efficiency," the letter said.
Japan is providing up to a $2,830 tax cut for scrapping a car 13 years old or older toward the purchase of a new vehicle, as long as it meets the 2010 fuel efficiency requirements, and a $1,130 incentive for new vehicle purchasers who do not scrap a vehicle.
The U.S. government said it was raising the issue with its Japanese counterparts and agreed that changes must be made.
The Japanese auto market has long been one of the most closed in the world for U.S. automakers and other imports, which account for less than 5 percent of the nation's sales.
Under Japan's program, no U.S. vehicles are eligible because of special import rules; 87 percent of Japanese-built vehicles are eligible.
Domestic automakers have long railed over what they call unfair hurdles to selling vehicles in Japan and have been trying to get more access to the market. It's unclear how much a favorable change would boost U.S. exports to Japan.
Carol Guthrie, a spokeswoman for the U.S. trade representative, said the government was working to address the issue. "USTR is continuing to raise this issue with the Japanese government. Our position remains that changes are necessary to give U.S. vehicles greater opportunity to qualify under Japan's program," she said Thursday.
Nearly half of the U.S. government's $3 billion Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS) program came from sales of Japanese cars and trucks. Japanese brands grabbed 319,300 out of a total of 677,000 in sales in the month-long U.S. "cash for clunkers" program.
That's well above the 260,561 vehicles sold by U.S. automakers, whose vehicles also accounted for 85 percent of all trade-ins.
Toyota Motor Corp. was the No. 1 seller in the U.S. clunkers program with 19.5 percent.
"We urge the U.S. government to make clear that it cannot tolerate this outright discrimination, particularly at a time when it has provided substantial direct financial support for Japanese automakers in this market," said the letter from the Detroit Three's trade arm, the American Automotive Policy Council.
Some in Congress wanted to try to craft the U.S. program to favor U.S.-built vehicles, but that idea was scrapped because of fears it would violate international trade rules.
The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, or JAMA, declined to comment and the Japanese Embassy in Washington didn't return messages seeking comment.
In explaining the reason for implementing the roughly $3.7 billion program, JAMA said in a fact sheet that sales in Japan have fallen sharply this year.
Japanese vehicle sales fell by 5 percent in 2008 from 2007 and have dropped by 17.6 percent for the first eight months of 2009.
dshepardson@detnews.com (202) 662-8735
Last edited by John Shiels; 01-05-2010 at 08:07 PM.
01-05-2010, 08:31 PM
#22
The site is minutes from Willow Run and Detroit Metropolitan airports, where lithium-ion battery cells could be delivered from Korea.
From there, the battery cells will be assembled into T-shaped packs at the Brownstown plant and hauled to GM's Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, where the Volt will be built.
From there, the battery cells will be assembled into T-shaped packs at the Brownstown plant and hauled to GM's Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, where the Volt will be built.
01-05-2010, 09:35 PM
#24
"AlohaC5" Senior Member
...Farewell GM. I was pleased to see your year-end performance come in worse than expected while your competitors continue to take your market share. Apparently you had more unhappy bond holders that used to buy your cars and feel just like me than retired UAW employees who are buying your cars now.
And BTW, since you've screwed me I purchased both a new Honda and a new Mercedes. Both of them are running great too.
And BTW, since you've screwed me I purchased both a new Honda and a new Mercedes. Both of them are running great too.
I'll never buy another GM (or Chrysler) product again for the very same reasons. I've purchased two new Ford vehicles since the bailouts - Mustang GT Coupe and Ranger 4x4 Extended Cab, which joins my F250 Super Duty. I love my Corvette, but never again!! I can't wait to vote in 2010.
01-05-2010, 09:43 PM
#25
Drifting
01-05-2010, 11:06 PM
#26
Dec. 30, 2009, 4:53 p.m. EST · Recommend · Post:
GMAC to get $3.79 bln from Treasury
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Alert Email Print Share By Sue Chang
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- GMAC Financial Services said Wednesday that it will get $3.79 billion from the Treasury Department as part of its plan to strengthen the company's capital base. The injection of funds is also expected to pave the way for GMAC to explore strategic alternatives for ResCap and its mortgage business, it said. The government aid consists of Treasury buying $2.54 billion of trust preferred securities and $1.25 billion of mandatorily convertible preferred securities (MCP). The Treasury will also exchange all GMAC non-convertible preferred stock it holds for $5.25 billion of newly-issued MCP and convert $3 billion of existing MCP into equity in GMAC. "Following the conversion and new issuances of MCP, the U.S. Treasury will hold a total of approximately $11.4 billion of MCP," said GMAC in a statement.
Any of us would go to jail for this.
01-05-2010, 11:34 PM
#27
They don't call GM government Motors for nothing! Ig the government cant get the car makers to go green then the government buys GM and makes its own green cars for you and me to swallow.
If I have to race an electric car I'll stop racing.
If I have to race an electric car I'll stop racing.
01-05-2010, 11:51 PM
#28
Drifting
01-06-2010, 03:03 AM
#30
01-06-2010, 08:36 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
Sports cars arent going away. Just going electric one day in the far future. Ill miss the exhaust noise for sure, but it wont affect me as the gas pumps will be around for many years to come.
Ill enjoy driving a zero emission tow vehicle, with the fire breathing track car in tow, and the ze daily drivers.
Im all for less pollution and not supporting (buying) oil from the countries that hate us.
Ill enjoy driving a zero emission tow vehicle, with the fire breathing track car in tow, and the ze daily drivers.
Im all for less pollution and not supporting (buying) oil from the countries that hate us.
01-06-2010, 08:55 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Not at all. I agree that Gore wouldn't have been any better. I also think Cheney did more damage than good. Debating politics on a Roadrace forum is worthless but a few Dewars enticed me to post last night...
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
01-06-2010, 09:02 AM
#33
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 5,708
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Cruise-In II Veteran
I have been flying RC planes and the Li-Po batteries are so friggin' dangerous. They even sell Nomex bags to store your Li-po's so you do not burn down your house or car and some guys use steel ammo cans to transport and store them. This is especially true if you crash the plane even a little, you can be driving home and the batteries can start burning on their own. Just great, what is going to happen when you have an accident in the typical car that has poor maintenance? Add to that, the environmental hazard when you need to change them, no thanks. Someone is not considering the total system here, just waving hands in the name of the "environment". I am all for less reliance on OPEC, but we are not there yet.
01-06-2010, 09:25 AM
#34
Vetteless
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Gallatin TN
Posts: 732
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St. Jude Donor '09
May be part of the problem is Japan, Korea, China and others having their home market sewed up by excluding all competition. Look what Japan just did with their clunker program. Japan basically excluded all the foreign competition with regulations and taxes. How would it be if we just did that here in the USA?
How would Toyota be doing if the USA treated them like Japan treats foreign companies? They would be missing more than half their worldwide sales and more than half their profits. Reported by WTO as the most closed industrial country in the world. Three domestics are not perfect but they do not have the same chance we gave foreign competition here.
GM was told they could not import CTS to China they told them build it here in China if you want to sell it. Time for this country to wake up before there is nothing left here. Foreign countries have created a oneway trade agenda for themselves and ith it go US jobs and money.
How would Toyota be doing if the USA treated them like Japan treats foreign companies? They would be missing more than half their worldwide sales and more than half their profits. Reported by WTO as the most closed industrial country in the world. Three domestics are not perfect but they do not have the same chance we gave foreign competition here.
GM was told they could not import CTS to China they told them build it here in China if you want to sell it. Time for this country to wake up before there is nothing left here. Foreign countries have created a oneway trade agenda for themselves and ith it go US jobs and money.
To me, this is the root of the problem. If we could get politicians in place to address and fix this problem, LOTS of other issues would begin to resolve themselves. Of course, like most things, that's much easier said than done. I think the US GDP is like 60% service industry now - WTF?
01-06-2010, 09:38 AM
#35
Team Owner
Need a display for a fighter it comes for overseas. This is because of a lack of manufacturing policy in this country. We have more tp worry about than cars. Worry who will protect you or your kids and where will they work.If we lose battery technology that will be another huge loss. No economic power no military power.
Little dated but just add Korea and China on top of it now watch all 6 parts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GecyyDHmNg
Around the world they just tax US products into extinction as we sit by.
Last edited by John Shiels; 01-06-2010 at 09:53 AM.
01-06-2010, 11:41 AM
#36
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,131
Received 8,960 Likes
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5,346 Posts
I really don't care.
Ever since the Obama administration took my retirement money (GM Bonds) and gave it to the UAW so they could have their retirement money, I will never buy another GM product. I love both my Corvettes, my Grand Am, and my Denali XL, but never another GM product until GM makes their bond holders whole...which will be never.
Farewell GM. I was pleased to see your year-end performance come in worse than expected while your competitors continue to take your market share. Apparently you had more unhappy bond holders that used to buy your cars and feel just like me than retired UAW employees who are buying your cars now.
And BTW, since you've screwed me I purchased both a new Honda and a new Mercedes. Both of them are running great too.
Ever since the Obama administration took my retirement money (GM Bonds) and gave it to the UAW so they could have their retirement money, I will never buy another GM product. I love both my Corvettes, my Grand Am, and my Denali XL, but never another GM product until GM makes their bond holders whole...which will be never.
Farewell GM. I was pleased to see your year-end performance come in worse than expected while your competitors continue to take your market share. Apparently you had more unhappy bond holders that used to buy your cars and feel just like me than retired UAW employees who are buying your cars now.
And BTW, since you've screwed me I purchased both a new Honda and a new Mercedes. Both of them are running great too.
Punishing GM and Chrysler for accepting Government help by not buying their products is like shooting yourself in the foot.
Bill
01-06-2010, 11:47 AM
#37
Racer
Not at all. I agree that Gore wouldn't have been any better. I also think Cheney did more damage than good. Debating politics on a Roadrace forum is worthless but a few Dewars enticed me to post last night...
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
01-06-2010, 11:57 AM
#38
Drifting
Not at all. I agree that Gore wouldn't have been any better. I also think Cheney did more damage than good. Debating politics on a Roadrace forum is worthless but a few Dewars enticed me to post last night...
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
01-06-2010, 12:04 PM
#39
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,131
Received 8,960 Likes
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5,346 Posts
Some comments about Hybrid vehicles:
I don't know how many of you have driven a Hybrid Tahoe but I spent a couple of weeks driving one and it is really a great vehicle. Plenty of power, goes to sleep while sitting still and even when the running on the gas engine gets a lot better fuel mileage than my Tahoe with the 5.3 engine. With its 6200 lb towing capacity I could use it to tow my Vette to the track. Just expensive and very limited supply.
Have you noticed GM has stopped advertising their hybrid cars and trucks? It turns out their Ni-Mh battery supplier has gone belly up.
The biggest problem with plug in-hybrids or all electric cars is they really do not do much to reduce overall pollution they just move the source of the pollution to a different point. When running on electricity supplied by a utility the overall efficiency is about the same as running on fuel stored in the gas tank. Considering the majority of our electric power is generated from coal, oil or gas that means the pollution is now located where ever the power plants are located and that carbon emissions will not be greatly affected.
Some comments about the batteries:
Li batteries aren't that dangerous as long as the battery charge is closely controlled.
When the batteries are no longer useful in a vehicle they can be recycled for use in other products that do not have the vehicle usage constraints. There will likely be a trade in value for them.
The big issue is the supply of Lithium. Right now it all comes from a South American country (sound like a familiar supply problem?). Mining it causes environmental problems.
Bill
I don't know how many of you have driven a Hybrid Tahoe but I spent a couple of weeks driving one and it is really a great vehicle. Plenty of power, goes to sleep while sitting still and even when the running on the gas engine gets a lot better fuel mileage than my Tahoe with the 5.3 engine. With its 6200 lb towing capacity I could use it to tow my Vette to the track. Just expensive and very limited supply.
Have you noticed GM has stopped advertising their hybrid cars and trucks? It turns out their Ni-Mh battery supplier has gone belly up.
The biggest problem with plug in-hybrids or all electric cars is they really do not do much to reduce overall pollution they just move the source of the pollution to a different point. When running on electricity supplied by a utility the overall efficiency is about the same as running on fuel stored in the gas tank. Considering the majority of our electric power is generated from coal, oil or gas that means the pollution is now located where ever the power plants are located and that carbon emissions will not be greatly affected.
Some comments about the batteries:
Li batteries aren't that dangerous as long as the battery charge is closely controlled.
When the batteries are no longer useful in a vehicle they can be recycled for use in other products that do not have the vehicle usage constraints. There will likely be a trade in value for them.
The big issue is the supply of Lithium. Right now it all comes from a South American country (sound like a familiar supply problem?). Mining it causes environmental problems.
Bill
01-06-2010, 12:06 PM
#40
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,131
Received 8,960 Likes
on
5,346 Posts
Not at all. I agree that Gore wouldn't have been any better. I also think Cheney did more damage than good. Debating politics on a Roadrace forum is worthless but a few Dewars enticed me to post last night...
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
I think the Country is a mess because of incompetent politicians on both sides of the isle for the last decade. The separatist media has also had a major part in dividing the Country so nothing gets accomplished.
Whether it's Beck, Limbaugh, and O'reilly or Oberman, Maddow, and the new twit on the Ed show? They're all worthless lying actors.
Bill