wing angle?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 6
From: Watkins Glen NY
If you will post the exact profile of the cord, that will be an excellent starting point. Also, what approximate speeds on the straights on those tracks you run; plus the approximate speed in the SLOWEST turn, and in the FASTEST turn.
So much of this is truly tiral-and-error. Minus the profile and speed data, you will not go too far wrong by starting your testing with ~0 degrees with any cantilevered profile. Increase angle-of-incidence at around 2 degrees at a time. Be aware that as the rear begins to "stick" more, some tweaks to the front (splitter, etc.) might be required to retain or achieve aero balance. Also, heavier rate springs at the rear MIGHT be in order.
The stop watch will always be the ultimate judge of such things, but if you post up more information, we can get you started on a more direct path.
Ed LoPresti
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,438
Likes: 919
From: CONCORD NC
If you want an actual "number" then 9-12 deg. Your goal is to balance whatever grip you have in the front, so it really depends on how efficient your front aero is.
A good airfoil will create downforce with NO angle of attack at all, so you might only need a few degrees to balance the car with a simple spoiler/small splitter. If you have a 4" splitter, venturi undertray, louvered hood and it's really dialed in, you might need 12deg with a small wicker. Trouble is, not only do high angles increase drag in a perfect situation, anything above 9deg will likely also lose laminar flow, again dramatically increasing drag and reducing efficiency (wicker helps with this
Takes lots testing to get it absolutely perfect, but wings are easy, it's the front that's hard to dial in. Once the front is maximized, finding the balance at the rear won't take to long.
A good airfoil will create downforce with NO angle of attack at all, so you might only need a few degrees to balance the car with a simple spoiler/small splitter. If you have a 4" splitter, venturi undertray, louvered hood and it's really dialed in, you might need 12deg with a small wicker. Trouble is, not only do high angles increase drag in a perfect situation, anything above 9deg will likely also lose laminar flow, again dramatically increasing drag and reducing efficiency (wicker helps with this
Takes lots testing to get it absolutely perfect, but wings are easy, it's the front that's hard to dial in. Once the front is maximized, finding the balance at the rear won't take to long.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 10
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Your do not want the air to separate from the wing prematurely. On a rainy dirty track you can see where the air leaves the bottom surface of the wing surface from the dirt trails. HRP or some one sells colored oil to trace this in case you are short on a dirty wing. You do not want the wing to stall. If you have a decent wing the manufacturer should be able to tell you the AOA where the wing stalls. Usually around what Dave had is the upper limit 12-13 on mine ACP wing. The you can play with the stop watch which is hard unless you have an open track and tons of testing time. SOTP feel will tell you also.
If you are looking to be real close and consistent then this tells you why people mount to the frame and not the hatch where you will get flex and it will change the AOA.
If you are looking to be real close and consistent then this tells you why people mount to the frame and not the hatch where you will get flex and it will change the AOA.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,650
Likes: 3
Your do not want the air to separate from the wing prematurely. On a rainy dirty track you can see where the air leaves the bottom surface of the wing surface from the dirt trails. HRP or some one sells colored oil to trace this in case you are short on a dirty wing.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,456
Likes: 1
From: Lakewood Co
There are so many things to consider!
Someone mentioned balancing the rear downforce with the front downforce to get good front-rear balance.
Someone also has mentioned a stall angle that you want to avoid.
No one has mentioned that increased downforce also means increased drag. There comes a point where the drag on a high speed straight starts slowing down the car, more than the extra downforce speeds it up through the slower curves. Professional race teams are constantly balancing increased drag against increased downforce.
Someone mentioned balancing the rear downforce with the front downforce to get good front-rear balance.
Someone also has mentioned a stall angle that you want to avoid.
No one has mentioned that increased downforce also means increased drag. There comes a point where the drag on a high speed straight starts slowing down the car, more than the extra downforce speeds it up through the slower curves. Professional race teams are constantly balancing increased drag against increased downforce.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,151
Likes: 20
wing angle is relative. The car must be set level and preferably at correct height, rake, etc. before installing wing. I spent probably 20-30 hours making custom wing mounts and attaching them to a race car a couple years ago. I had to drop plumb bobs from the wing to square it and also shim one of the mounts I made for the frame before welding to get it all correct. Once all that was done I set 0* AOA and then measured how many degrees each full rotation of the turnbuckles created. From there just keep notes and adjust. No need to measure because unless the car is set perfectly, as above, the measurement will not mean anything.
As far as drag and stall, downforce, etc. the mfg of the wing should provide those numbers. Testing will help as well and I say that because I've seen others add angle beyond what the mfg. suggested for stall and gain rear grip. Same with wickers.
As far as drag and stall, downforce, etc. the mfg of the wing should provide those numbers. Testing will help as well and I say that because I've seen others add angle beyond what the mfg. suggested for stall and gain rear grip. Same with wickers.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 6
From: Watkins Glen NY
We spend a lot of time trimming our cars out, and attempting to find the MINIMUM downforce required at any given track. The vast majority of races are won on the straights. Like it or not, the stop watch tells us how we are doing.
Ed
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,226
Likes: 33
From: Morton illinois
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
I am looking into getting the LG wing. The APR one looks nice, and cheaper, but it bolts to the truck, which I dont want. The LG version goes to the frame.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 10
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Racer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 306
Likes: 1
From: Houston Texas
Before you spend the money on an LG wing, take a look at the ACP wing. They are frame mounted as well, and a bit larger.
