No lift here, so I knew it would most likely do the trial and error method. I'm trying to limit the amount of attempts by doing my homework first. I like BEZ06's estimates for camber and toe adjustments. I will most likely use those as a rule of thumb until I am proven otherwise.

Thanks for the hints.

Sean

 

Already looking into an upgraded bushing kit. My hair isn't long enough to be able to pull it out, lol! High and tight to keep the grey away!

 

Your can save yourself a lot of guessing and trouble by doing a search for David Farmers DIY alignment write up. It will cover most of the basics on set up. When I was racing my C2 I had a quickie track checker with a level that I cut to 15.5" (15 " wheels) and did all the trig calculations to measure what 1/32 I would mean to camber adjustment and two toe plates and two identical tape measures to measure toe. That would help keep everything close in the event you ran over a curb or did some agricultural surveying. But for base line set up I would take it to an alignment machine owned by a fellow club member.

Today I spend more time making my alignment surface level than spending time taking the measurements. Sears and other make digital levels, a good 12" does wonders for this and a 1" plastic tube connector from Lowes or HD. Measure a scribe line at the laser height, find the high spot where you want to make you measurements and plenty of cheap 12" floor tiles. Also invest in some toe plates and then follow Davids outline.

 

I've spent a lot of time on David Farmer's website. Great info BTW. Just looking for any additional info that could help me before I get started in this. I would rather research for 2 weeks and work for day than vice versa.

 

Measured the garage this afternoon - pretty good side to side. Fronts are equal, rears within 1/4" or each other. Front to back is about 1-3/4" low. One question...

I know that perfectly level is ideal, but is front to rear leveling absolutely necessary? I understand that it will affect corner balancing slightly, but I don't think it will have much of an effect at all. I would prefer not to level front to rear because i would either have to make a pretty elaborate setup to drive onto or jack up the car (unloading the suspension in the process).

Thoughts from the experts? Without running the math, I bet the 1-3/4" height difference would make less than 20 lbs difference front to rear in corner weight. If I compensate with half of a fuel tank or counterweight in the front I think I'll Still be pretty close with suspension loading.

Sean

 

I don't corner balance as I don't own the scales, but I do ride height & all the rest without the front/back level. Side to side I use aluminum sheet(s) to set dead level 0.0 on a Sears digital level (laid on a long carpenter level which is on a couple of big (equal) sockets).

I tried the linoleum squares, but I like the alum better. Thinner & can get it dead zero'd. The linoleum was too thick.

So far as I have been able to research this is "allowed" if you are not doing corner wgt.

You need the side to side 100% level, close enough is not close enough. Camber will be off. May as well do it right.



This system does intrigue me, a lot.

http://www.sherline.com/alignsys.htm

Raceramps has a really cool ramp setup that gets both ends up & then you can remove the middle & ends and get to everything for toe. But $$$.

 

Froggy, I appreciate your input. I measured with a water column, but may give it another try with a digital gage tomorrow. I measured 3 times with the same result, but it's probably worth taking the extra time...

Aluminum plates are also a good idea - half thickness of tiles. When I'm
Not feeling lazy, I will run the math to see if it really makes a difference.

 

1.2G sustained for a few seconds. And I'm not convinced I didn't start doing damage back with the stock runflats on the car at that same track as the HUD was >1.1G back then... I'm not even sure I'm comfortable tracking the new motor on high end street tires...

 

Not to make you crazy, but I am just saying that when you said "rears are within 1/4 inch", that is not good enough for setting camber.

 

I know... I was just surprised that the shoddy construction work down here in S. Florida kept it so close. I have already purchased some 1/8" asphalt and 1/16" linoleum tiles to lever right to left. Also got a section of 3/4" box aluminum and a digital level to help out the process.

 

Just ran some back of the napkin math. The 1-3/4 height difference front to rear in my garage is almost 1 degree slope. That puts 30ish more lbs over the rear axle - about 15lbs per wheel. Probably not enough to deflect the suspension significantly.

Thought about compensating with less fuel but then remembered that running half a tank will upset the left-right balance since the fuel empties from the passenger tank first then driver tank.

Based on front and rear track, 1/4" difference left to right in the garage floor makes for 0.23 degree lean. That means one wheel (lower) will read 0.23 degree less than actual camber and the other (higher) wheel will read 0.23 more than actual.

Bought qty (5) linoleum 1/16" tiles and qty (5) asphalt 1/8" tiles to work on getting both axles true and level, then drive the car on the spacers and attempt some measurements.

I will most likely measure with and without counterweight (driver) to see how much difference it makes. I'm guessing just a small change in camber.

Just thought I'd share.

Sean

 

I go between a street and race setup for just about each event. Once you do it a few times it goes pretty fast. I use very simple tools to make this change. For the toe, I just use a couple of tape measures that run in front and back of the front tires, similar to what David Farmer writes on his site.

I basically remove 3 of the 4 washers that go behind the top A arm supports. Each washer gets you about 0.4 degree of camber. I actually made some ground u shaped spacers which are the same thickness as the washers so I do not have to remove the upper A arm bolts, just loosen them.

My conversion takes me from -1.5 degrees in the front with zero toe to -2.7 degrees camber. I don't adjust the rear camber, I have it set all the time at about -1.5 degrees.

Once I remove the 3 washers, I then adjust the toe in the front and turn the toe rods 9.5 flats (using the toe rod nut as reference) to get about 1/16 of toe out. There was some trial and error to come up with the 9.5 flats of the nut. (I basically adjust the entire toe rod a little over 1.5 turns).

I put my car up on jack stands to do all this work. I basically do the opposite to get back to my stock setup.

I had my car aligned to start with before I did this for the first time. They adjusted the lower A arm eccentrics to get the initial street alignment I wanted.

 

 

 

I took a look at fromt and rear setups today whils bleeding brakes, swapping pads and going back to street tires.

Initial camber at all four corners was -0.8, rear toe was -1/16" measured at edge of rim and front was zero toe.

I adjusted rear control arms outward 2 hash marks, no toe adjustment yet. Fromt upper control arms only had one washer installed except for DR front mount (which had 2). Took one washer out all around with no toe adjustment.

I'm gonna drive around the neighborhood in the morning and measure again to try to gather data on how much of XX adjustment changes things. One thing at a time so I can understand the dynamics of each adjustment.

One question though... Is there a special tool for tie rod adjustment? Some form of wider wrench to grab more metal? A 13 mm wrench fit but was loose, and a 1/2 inch was too small. The rear tie rods didn't want to move at all, maybe I need PB blaster.

 

I use an adjustable that has a release built in so that you don't have to lift it off the rod.



http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-r...p-00945784000P

They work pretty well but occasionally lose the exact adjustment if the gear moves a bit, would be better if the adjustment locked.

When you are all done & like the alignment put some witness marks everywhere & you can check to see if any of it moves.

Squirt a little pb blaster on the stuck one, they should move without much difficulty.

 

Froggy, rear was toe in 1/16". I plan on checking everything in the morning, just ran out of time between dinner and kids soccer practice. I removed washers in the front with he hope of not touching the eccentric bolts. I may end up adjusting he bolts then shimming the control arms to go back to street setup.

Thanks for the heads up on the tool. I will hit all tie rods with PB blaster tomorrow.

 

If you are going to switch street/track etc it's easier to do with the eccentrics, but need to set toe each time.

The eccentrics take a LOT of torque or they will move on you. Look up the tq requirements.

 

Spent about 4 hrs adjusting today. After 5 separate adjustments (only ont thing at a time - camber or toe), I ended up with the following:

Front camber -1.9 right, -2.0 left
Front toe 1/16" out, measured at rim edge
Rear camber -1.0 both sides
Rear toe 1/16" in

All in all, simple process. Lifting the car and driving around to settle suspension took more time than anything.

Thanks for all the pointers. I think I will leave it this way for a bit since I put more track miles on the car than street miles.

 

I leave mine on track setting all the time, not many street miles, but my street rear tires are wearing a bit fast due to the rear toe in I run 3/8 total toe in. I do a couple events a month all year round so it's a lot of work to switch all the time & I know some guys just mark the settings or count the turns, but I trust my strings & I don't want to mess with a sweet setting once I have it, I'd rather buy rear tires a bit more often.