jlutherva

For the first probably 10 HPDE events I used a shuffle steering technique. At a Chin event at Road Atlanta, my instructor wanted me to stop that and claimed that I would be much smoother through the turns by using fixed hand positions. It was a hard habit to break but he was right. At the last Chin event, the classroom instructor dropped a hint that the next classroom session would include shuffle steering techniques. I broke my car so I missed that discussion.

What's everybody's thoughts on shuffle steering?

Jim

ErnieN85

it's a personal thing use it when you need it
if you can compleate the corner with out it do so, when the turn is sharper you need to I cn't imagine how the autocross guys could get by without it

PushinTheLimit

I use shuffle steering in autocross... you just about have to to keep up and stay in front of the cones. For road racing, I don't. You shouldn't ever need to shuffle steer on a road course unless you go off track chasing the car.

travisnd

It all depends on how big you are, how tall you are, and the steering wheel setup in the car. Being 6'4" 250 I could never drive a stock Corvette without shuffle steering. It's impossible to heel-toe as well. You can drive much better with proper shuffle steering.

In my racecar I have the floor modified and a custom fit ultrashield sitting on the floor (as low as you can get it). I have a Sparco 353 flat bottom wheel as well. Now I can heel-toe w/o issue and could leave my hands fixed if I wanted to. I generally leave them in place, but on certain turns it makes sense to shuffle so your arms aren't crossed up i.e. Turn 4 at VIR. As I'm coming into 4 I move my left hand to the 12 o'clock position and as I'm entering the turn and my right hand goes to 6. As I unwind I move them back to standard position. It makes it far easier to counter-steer when your arms aren't crossed over each other. I'm usually trail braking into 4 so being able to have fast hands is a must.

The idea of 100% fixed hand position only really works in cars with very tight steering ratios i.e formula cars where lock to lock may only be 180 degrees of rotation. In this situation you arms will never get crossed up.

Just my $0.02.

mountainbiker2

I used to shuffle steer like crazy for autocross. But after 4 National winning drivers told me not to, I finally listened. I would never go back, and only shuffle if it's more then half a turn. You can steer much more precise, and counter steer so fast that you'll have much more control over your car. Practice everyday driving your street car. Half a turn or less, don't take your hands off the wheel. More then half a turn, then shuffle a little.

Check out my videos and you see what I'm talking about.


Good luck

Steve A.

Screamin Z

+1 on no shuffle unless things go bad.

StKnoWhere

Nice driving, video and that is the best/fastest autocross course I've seen.

jlutherva

I'm also XL, 6'-3", 230 lbs and have a Sparco Evo 2 Plus seat mounted very close to the floor and that certainly makes the physical arrangement viable to run either Road Atlanta or VIR w/o the need to shuffle steer.

By picking the correct turn in point and radius for T4 at VIR, I can very smoothly drive through T4, hold the radius, then turn into T5, hold the radius then just do a minor adjustments for T6 and T6a. When I get this right, its very smooth and fast.

The consensus is generally fixed position steering depending on how sharp the turns are on the course and the physical arrangement of the driver's body with respect to the steering wheel. Makes sense.

Next time I run with Chin, I'll bring this up with the classroom instructor.

Thanks for all of the input. I'm off to VIR this weekend.

Jim

brkntrxn

Like everything, it is a TOOL to be used. I shuffle steer depending on the corner and the car. Since I like to sit close to the wheel for maximum leverage, crossing my arms in a turn is not always possible. In addition. I do it more in the Vette than my Cobra because the trans hump and console are higher and closer to my elbows therefore limiting my space even further.

rfn026

Derek Bell once told me that if I started to shuffle steer he was going to get out of the car.

Richard Newton
Newton's Laws

jvp

I'd have told him I would give him the courtesy of slowing down a bit as I went by pit-in so he could jump out the window...

I always shuffle. Always, always, always. No instructor will ever tell me otherwise or I'll punt them out of the car, simple as that.

jas

ltborg

+1. I don't shuffle sheer. If I need more wheel, I'll grab the bottom with my outside hand and add more. That way I always know where my hands are and if I need to countersteer, I won't get my arms crossed up when taking wheel out. Keeping your hands on the wheel gives you a better feel for changes in steering effort as well.

Solofast

I agree. The primary reason not to is that your brain learns how much to turn the wheel on initial turn in if it goes from the same position every time you turn into a corner. It will correlate how much steer is needed and you will learn to smoothly enter enough lock to get the job done without sawing at the wheel. That's why the initial poster found he was much smoother by not shuffle steering. There is sound logic behind it.

I used to autocross a first gen RX7 that did not have power steering and had a pretty slow steering ratio. Didn't shuffle steer that either and could still put in huge steering angle inputs very quickly. As other posters have also mentioned, you ALWAYS know where straight ahead is and how much to counter steer and if the car steps out a bit, you can catch it without doing a tank slapper..

waddisme

I never thought about it, but when I looked at my VIR/RD ATL vids, mine are always fixed.


BTW, that is the most fun AX course I have ever seen. Incredible how your hands go way past 6 and 12.

Jim - I hope it wasn't nothing major with your car. The tire thing at VIR was kind of flukey.

brkntrxn

Not as harsh, but I agree. I wish I could be so priviledged that I could always have a quick steering rack, on a perfect handling car, on perfectly fresh tires. If only I could make every turn on every race track with minimal input in a cockpit that is designed with plenty of elbow room. When "professionals" and "experts" make such statements, it tells me that it has been a LONG time since they drove a normal American car.

SouthernSon

Generally try to keep the hands close to 3 and 9 o'clock. This offers much better leverage and control. The only time I get into the need for shuffling I end up 'throwing' the steering wheel one direction or the other.

Scooter70

With the slow steering ratio in my old GTO, I used to rotate my hands around the wheel (before the turn-in) so that I could get enough rotation to make the corner. It's not exactly "shuffling" more like "pre-steering". With my seat position (I'm short so I need to be closer to the wheel than optimal in order to get the clutch all the way in) and the size of the wheel I can't get the steering wheel 180* around without moving my hands. Maybe a smaller diameter wheel with a quick release mount that I could position further away from me would help but for now my way seems to work for me.

travisnd

Exactly... the "never shuffle steer" thing is the ideal, but it's not always practical or possible.

This is probably a better way to describe what I said in my first post in this thread about how I attack T-4 at VIR. I only move my hands in a turn that would have the wheel turned much over 90 degrees. It seems that to some shuffle steering means keeping your hands at 9 and 3 all the time and shuffling back and forth. I don't do that nor would I recommend it.

PushinTheLimit

I wouldn't really consider moving your hands slightly on the wheel to give steering input shuffle steering. I do that too on tight corners at some tracks. There's nothing wrong with that and sometimes needed.

I consider shuffle steering having your hands always at 9 and 3. At our local SCCA autox club, they preach that all the time and they've really perfected it. I'm still not smooth with it and just use it sparingly.

brkntrxn

You guys are describing what I call "pre-positioning". I do this all the time as well.