Black89Z51

As just getting back into racing, I built my car with safety in mind first. Then I added 275/315 tire combo and a VB&P suspension kit and some Carbotech brakes. I didn't do much in the way of power or Aero. I put in a cam and converted to Carb for simplicity. I really just want a class that I can race in, have a decent shot of being at least top 10, and not race myself. The last PTA race I was in was just myself. The other PTA car that weekend left after Saturday.

Some friends are also seeing the same in ITO and ITE in SCCA. We need a home and this ST3 idea seems like our best bet.

Cobra4B

Always build your car to a class... never works to build it randomly and then try to find the best fit.

Black89Z51

I did, but then the class died.

MJM

Can it go around a racetrack without a driver? Nope, so weights without drivers are irrelevant.

MJM

But when politics kills your class you are screwed, even if you were smart up front.

The 'Spec Corvette' idea is simply an attempt to find a home for all the people screwed over by SCCA while also providing a method for growth by converting track day junkies into racers. Limit the mods and everyone races similar cars for less money than T1 or ST2

SCCA's current method is to convince track day Corvette enthusiasts to choke their car with a restrictor, add ballast, and get beat by Mustangs. I don't think they will get many takers.

NASA's current method is to convince track day Corvette enthusiasts to spend lots of money on wings, bodies, and under trays in addition to removing every other bolt, fastener, and wiring harness to lower weight. At first the open rules worked but now it's getting more expensive and politics has caused some rules fluctuation that is pissing people off.

As to whether 'Spec' racing in general works, all you have to do is look at car counts. Spec Miata and Spec Racer Ford are the most popular classes by far. How about a Spec class for Corvette fans?

fatbillybob

I signed the petition to keep the 2012 SCCA T1 rules but that ship has passed. Call me a 1/2 full guy. 2013 SCCA T1 rules is what started all this controversy and call for a new spec series. Lets face it no racing is cheap. Every year I have raced with SCCA there has been rule changes. They always cost money but we did not squalk because we like go fast goodies. This time SCCA is costing us money to slow us down. The cost is an ecu tune, aluminum spacer plate, lead ballast probably less than the cost of a set of tires. The benefit might be less heat generated as less HP is produced meaning longer engine life. Restricted engines in theory make less absolute compression and maybe we then don't need the octane of the 100 octane race gas at $9.50/gal. I use about $200 in racegas/day (6mpg 135miles per raceday over 3 sessions. ) Over the 9 races in 2012 that's $1800 in gas. If my fuel costs drops 50% using 91 pumpgas I bet that savings pays for the tune and restrictor plate and ballast in 1 year. So how much does an increase in engine longevity save us? There are less and less LS6's and it is going to get more expensive to replace them. If we use LS3's in the C5 that penalty comes with $6k for drysumping. If SCCA does not allow an engine upgrade to LS3 then we are going to have to spend more money to rebuild vs. the cheap LS6 crates of days gone by. We better make these engines last. So the restrictor plate might not be as bad as people think and it could reduces the cost of our racing over time. Finally, if SCCA attempt parity and finds that we carry too much weight and removes some ballast, then we could see an additional savings in brakes from less weight and lower speeds. The lamest thing about the new rule change is that is moves the T1 car further from ST2. Locally, a T1 car with a wing is competitive. Now we will need to have swapable ECU's (or swap tunes), wing-up, drop weight to be where we are today in ST2. So it is going to take an extra hour of prep to convert. While I'm not happy with the new rules, SCCA is still a great place to race and NASA ST2 is still not out of reach for a 2013 T1 car. Bottom line where ever we play we are going to pay.

RX-Ben

Are you guys liking the first look at ST3? (9.5:1, -.5 for non-aero option)
How many would go to ST3 as opposed to ST2?

PushinTheLimit

It would make sense for most of the top PTA guys to run ST3 and not have to spend big $$$.

Cobra4B

I like it... I'd take my spoiler off, get some cheap coil-overs, run 275s and roll with it.

9.0 - 0.4 = 8.6

I'd have to add 50 pounds to my min comp weight at my current 365 rwhp.

redtopz

I would stay in ST2. Looks like they will be dropping that class to 8.0:1 possibly. That would let me remove my restrictor and cut some weight. ST3 could be a good class but will it take cars out of ST2? The non-aero limit of 9.0:1 will be similar to a 2013 T1 car.

JerryTX

I'm a no aero/ no coilover ST2 car, and yes ST3 is looking appealing but I have to ballast up or detune, not too hard. I want to see if the aero adjustment happens in ST2 (does anyone know)? If not, then I'd go ST3 yes. If they give a no-aero discount in ST2 I'd rather stay there given the field size in NASATX.

Cobra4B

I agree with Jerry in that I'd go ST2 if there's a mod factor for no aero. I'd go with the bigger class. I think the idea us to catch more card at the 9.0-9.5 area. Easier to detune and add weight.

MJM

That's not a spec series, it's just ST2.5. So you have less HP but all the costs of ST racing.

Cobra4B

Nobody said it was a spec-series. The discussion of a spec-series is off the table with NASA which is where most of us race.

Taking aero out of the equation is a large cost saver. Yes you can run fancy suspension, but that's the only other main cost. I don't see a detuned 427 doing anything at these power/weight levels.

I can take my car and remove my spoiler and then continue to run 275s and be 8.6:1. I'd have to add 50lbs to my car to make weight at 365 rwhp.

Timz06

I'm all for ST3 with no aero. I would take all of the weight out of my car and then ballast up.

brkntrxn

Tim and several others have already heard this, but I have a question for you guys looking forward to an ST3 class with NASA: what are you going to do when an ST2-like prepped car at 9.0:1 shows up and waxes the field? That is going to happen at Nationals and in any division that has someone with deep pockets. If you think your T1 or PTA cars are underdogs in ST2, the same exact thing is going to happen in ST3.

My C5Z06 is built very close to the NASA PTA rules and is a top contender (driver notwithstanding). From what I am interpreting from the NASA forums, ST3 is going to be an open 9.0:1 with a penalty for aero. So that means I will need to spend BIG $$$ on brakes, coilovers, carbon fiber, transmission, bolt-ons, rear end, etc. etc. etc. to have a top car in an ST3 class.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. NASA is screwing us PTA guys over a bigger barrel than SCCA is with the T1 guys. The top ST3 car is going to be only slightly cheaper than the top ST2 cars. Mark my words.


-Kevin

MJM

The title of this thread is "Spec Corvette" and the guy who started it was looking to create a place for the disaffected SCCA T1 racers to move to.

Someone asked what we thought about ST3 so I think my comment was entirely appropriate.

Matt

sperkins

No worries. You just got a little behind on the conversation. We all pretty much agreed weeks ago that a spec corvette series was dead in the water and the whole ST3 debate has taken over.

KNSBrakes

Well I and my friend Paul are your target nOObs to market to.

We are typical heavy HPDE guys who are getting a bit bored. He's pretty good - I'm average but I still want to W2W something and buying a whole new car - E30/Miata - not so much. I love my corvette - it's awesome.

I can say for now it's already a bit complicated. Make it easier to get going and I'll be happy to run at the back for years to come.

Cobra4B

Nats is in Utah next year and for years after so I really don't care about that. I want 5+ cars to race against in a class Corvettes can race in. Nobody's racing PTA regionally other than a few of us and that's it.

Build the car according to your budget then just drive the **** out of it and have fun. I'd rather have a budget ST2/3 car running against 5-10 people vs. a 100% prepped PTA car running against nobody.